Stop-Loss in the Age of Obama
Sporkmaster reminded me in an email about our newest coward, Victor Agosto, a specialist in the 53rd ESB at Fort Hood, Texas, a place I know too well. Well, Victor is understandably upset that, while looking forward to his discharge from active duty in August, he was notified that he was stop-lossed and would have to pull an extra few months in Iraq Afghanistan instead.
Oh, um, Victor is also a member of the IVAW, did I mention that? Well, he is. His membership hasn’t quite made him the babe magnet he’d hoped, however. Until a couple of hippie babes drove from Fort Worth to see him;
Love the Che T-shirt, hon. It really shows off your…um….form.
Well, Victor wasn’t content just refusing to go to Iraq, he decided to put the counseling form from his commander on the internet – that ought to make his commander more understanding, shouldn’t it?
I guess Victor didn’t take into consideration that even if he were discharged from active duty, he still has a few more years of commitment to serve his country, that the Army didn’t really extend his contract, just his active duty time – and they still might by tossing his ass in the slammer for a year or so. Putting his counseling record online probably makes that inevitable.
Victor has been hanging out at the IVAW coffee house, Under The Hood with his new girlfriends, and who can blame with those two hotties. Courage to Resist, who has named Victor their coward of the month, tells us what it’s like to talk with Victor;
Victor doesn’t talk a lot, but when he does he reveals a resolve and intelligence that seems far older than his 23 years.
I hope someone mopped up the slobber on the floor before someone else slips and falls. They go on to describe the interior of the coffee house;
A large world map featuring U.S. interventions takes up one wall. The first interventions posted were Iraq and Afghanistan. Gradually, more countries and dates have been added: Chile, 1973, the CIA-backed military coup; Guatemala, 1954, the Marine invasion; Iran, 1953, the CIA-backed overthrow of the democratic government.
I hope they put up the US invasion of Quebec in 1775, after all, it looks like Victor’s new girlfriends are veterans of that engagement.
But, I wonder how the Left feels that their new President is continuing the Bush policy of stop-loss. That cold, hard slap of reality again.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:24 am
The thing that get me is when Code Pink and IVAW wine about why they are being called a Communist organization and then wear shirts like that one.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:32 am
One minor note, it was to Afghanistan rather then Iraq. Becuase in the first photo, it says “you will deploy in support of OEF” rather then OIF.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:42 am
I am thinking of this when I read about this clown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hqv5yBaXaI
May 18th, 2009 at 7:50 am
Sorry, Victor, but if you are that set against the military; then what the f**k did you join for? I have not patience for morons that all of a sudden get a case of lame ass when the military changes their dance card. Until your 8 years are fulfilled, you dance where and when they tell ya, it’s that f-ing simple. I was 18 and had that figured out BEFORE I raised my right hand. It’s not our fault if you weren’t smart enough to figure that out when you said “I do”. Now, suck it up and be a f-ing man and don’t try the courage routine, either, because to shirk your duties is not courage, but cowardice, no matter what the limp-wristed crowd tries to tell you.
God this pisses me off!!
May 18th, 2009 at 7:53 am
I guess he doesn’t want his extra $500 a month you will get for every month you are deployed while stop-lossed.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:58 am
“Love the Che T-shirt, hon. It really shows off your…um….form.”
Psssst, newsflash, Che was a RASCIST!!!
May 18th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Maybe Victor is a twofer, he gets to see the Military Justice system up close, and he won’t go to Afghanistan, where he’d more than likely, get a real soldier injured or killed. It’s a bitch when you join for the benefits and the Army actually wants you to, you know, go do military things, other than hanging around with the hags at the coffee house.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:41 am
“Victor doesn’t talk a lot, but when he does he reveals a resolve and intelligence that seems far older than his 23 years”
Now we have the ‘why’ of his girlfriends in the photo.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Mmm Hmmm. There are some great places to kick the asses of losers at Ft.Hood. I still have friends in low places…
May 18th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Ft. Hood…….I misspent some of my time there, maybe someone can take him out to show him cowhouse creek.
I got stop lossed and it didn’t kill me, grow up goat cheese
May 18th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I’m sorry, but I have a case of the ass over this cheese dick and his “friends”. I have had it with all these “brave” types that sign up, get sent to do the f-ing job for which they signed up for, or better yet, refuse to do the job they signed up for and use that tired old mantra of “immoral/illegal war” bullshit. You joined the f-ing military!!!! What did you think it was going to be!? It ain’t the f-ing Boy Scouts, that’s for sure! “I signed up for the college money”; well sonny, or cupcake, ain’t nothing free. The ones that sign up during war and then refuse to go are my favorite ones, they don’t even warrant getting pee’d on if they are on fire. So, unless Victor “the worthless one” signed up back on sept. 10th, 2001, I think he falls into the latter category. What really pisses me off is that smug look on his face in the picture. I have a few ideas on how to remove that smugness.
May 18th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
OldTrooper,
He signed up AFTER 9/11 so he knew what he was getting into. If he is in fact 23 he enlisted in 2004. 2 years after the suposed “immoral” war started.
May 18th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Apparently, from reading his comments on the Counseling Statement, Victor is Borderline literate as well as a Coward.
May 18th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
I imagine his thinking was that the war would be over before he got to his first unit. Also he is in a non-combat mos.
May 18th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Great, he’s a REMF with a moral dilemma…….what do you guys call them nowadays? Fobbits?
May 18th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Okay, lemme do the math here. He’s 23, which means he was, at MOST, 16 years old on 9/11. Now, given the fact he wasn’t enlistment eligible until at least a year AFTER 9/11 (more likely 2003, given he probably didn’t graduate HS before then), how exactly did he not know there was a distinct possibility that joining the Army after we had gone into Iraq would entail the distinct possibility he might hear shit going “BANG!” once in a while? How did he not know that some of that, “BANG!” was going to possibly be INCOMING?
Or is he hoping he’ll keep his educational bennies like Kokesh or Chiroux? Oh wait–they didn’t keep theirs either.
May 18th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
defendUSA – checks in the mail for my support of your idea. LOL
What a turd. But Old Trooper really said everything much more eloquently than I could have.
May 18th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
DefendUSA, I second what tankerbabe said, mine’s on the way too. Pictures, if you please?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
You, Sir, are a dumbass.
You don’t even make an attempt to respond to Victor.
Since those who read your blog may not know, I will reprint what Victor hand wrote on his counseling statement:
“There is no way I will deploy to Afghanistan. The occupation is immoral and unjust. It does not make the American people any safer. It has the opposite effect.”
So, Victor is really making two claims:
1. The Occupation of Afghanistan is “immoral” and “unjust”.
2. The Occupation of Afghanistan makes our own nation LESS safe, not more.
If you want to make Victor look foolish, please address these two claims. I think you may find that difficult.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
In the first week of Basic, or in my case OSUT, soldiers are briefed not to follow illegal orders. If Victor had learned of the war’s illegality after he joins, which is not surprising since most people aren’t thinking in a sober mindset when they join, he has a responsibility to resist. Some might call that responsibility “duty”. His ETS is also before his deployment date. The Army needs to honor his contract. Stop-Loss is NOT in his contract contrary to popular belief. Stop-Loss is illegal. The DoD has the right to call him back, but he must receive a discharge from his current tour of duty first. This is to protect his right to benefits after serving a tour honorably. Any discharges after that would not affect his benefits. While you may get mad that he didn’t have to deploy during his tour, your chip on the shoulder is irrelevant. I speak with great credibility as a disabled combat veteran with 15 months downrange and 3 lbs of stainless steel in my body.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Having read the IVAW declaration against the War in Afghanistan, specifically, “Whereas a primary motivation for the prolonged occupation of Afghanistan is competition between the U.S., Russia and China for control of oil and natural gas resources in Central Asia and the Caspian Sea”, I’ve concluded that, #1, no one in the IVAW passed even an elementary type of map reading course, i.e., they can’t find the Caspian Sea with both hands and a flashlight, and they didn’t happen to notice the Arabian Sea. Not to mention all those oil reserves in Afghanistan. One of them might want to check on the locations of Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, they seem to lie between Afghanistan and the Caspian.
But, hey, Victor has come to the conclusion that the “occupation” is “immoral” and “unjust” and it makes our nation Less safe. Wow, which National Security briefing did Victor get invited to? Is he a permanent member of the NSC, or just temporary?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Reality Check,
If it’s in the contract when you sign it, how the hell is it illegal?……and no, you don’t have to be discharged first, I can speak to that first hand, many of us stop-lossed in Desert Sheild/Storm weren’t discharged first…in my case they would have had to stop the war so I could ETS and get re-enlisted (voluntold) In all seriousness, there is no way they would have pulled me off a tank while we were shooting so I could be “discharged from my current tour of duty” it doesn’t matter if you’re stateside or deployed, stop-loss works the same.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
So let’s see, now anyone who enlists must be drunk?
I’m supposed to be sympathetic to some retard who enlists and cries over stop loss?
Tell that to the Joes who were drafted in 1940 for 12 months and didnt come home until 1945.
Tell it to 1BCT 34ID after their Marathon tour.
A lot of people (Myself included) have been stoplossed, Get over it and be a man if possible.
Gregg you can stop fellating Victor anytime now.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Greg Foster: Victor is a coward, plain and simple. There is nothing you can say to whitewash over it. He signed up during a war, so if he didn’t think he would have to go to war, then HE is the dumbass.
Reality Check: He doesn’t have a responsibility to resist anything, he has a responsibility to honor his contract (that’s 8 years, read the fine print, back in my day they didn’t call it stop-loss, they called it involuntary extension and it happened all the time then and it will continue to happen in the future, so it’s nothing new). War, in its purist essence is immoral, however, it is not to be determined by a weenie that decides that everyone else is wrong and he’s right. That decision is made at a much higher paygrade than him. He joined in wartime and if he thought he wasn’t going to have to go to the warzone, when he raised his right hand, then he is a complete moron as well as a coward.
May 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Sean: you are doing exactly what I am complaining about. You call Victor a “retard” and accuse me of performing a sex act on him. Okay, that might have hurt my feelings in high school, but i do know how to “be a man”. You are ignored.
OldTrooper: Victor has been to “war”. He has already deployed to Iraq. Do you really think a person can make a decision that effects them for the next 8 years and really know enough about that decision? Of course not.
RealityCheck is right. A soldier has the responsibility to NOT obey orders that are unlawful.
OldTrooper, you support the “war” that has never been declared (or did you not read the part of the constitution where Congress has the responsibility to declare a war) and has gone on for 7 years, with no end in sight.
I agree wholeheartedly that war “in its purest essence” is immoral. I don’t agree with you that we should allow people like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gates to make those decisions for us. There is no doubt in my mind that those people, who have never seen war firsthand, are more interested in political power than in doing what is ethical.
If you believe in Democracy, you should believe that all of us have the responsibility to stand up for what we believe is right. But that doesn’t fit in with your brand of flag waving. Fine.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:14 am
1. The Occupation of Afghanistan is “immoral” and “unjust”.
The US forces and forces of 44 other nations that make up the ISAF are in Afghanistan at the behest of the democratically elected government of Afghanistan and nine UN Security Council Resolutions.
2. The Occupation of Afghanistan makes our own nation LESS safe, not more.
Does a stable Afghanistan make Pakistan more or less stable? Does a stable Pakistan and its nuclear arsenal make our nation more or less safe?
May 19th, 2009 at 1:49 am
Sober refers to people not of a clear mind. Miriam-Webster has 6 definitions and the one I use is this: “6: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice” That refers not to Alcohol, but a far more dangerous intoxicant: Blind, unthinking, flag waving, follow the leader Nationalists like yourself.
As for Bohica:
1. I didn’t see 44 other nations on my tour. The United states makes up a very large percentage of the troops in the middle east. One could argue that the government elected at U.S. Gunpoint might not exactly be that democratic.
2. You cannot have a stable Pakistan with Indian Troops in Afghanistan. You cannot have a stable Pakistan with U.S. Troops knocking on their door and drones striking civilian targets.
I could waste my intellect all day trying to explain these things to you people, but I’ll leave you with 2 thoughts.
1. You’re all fucking morons, go drive your hummers off a cliff.
2. Go (try to) read a book
2.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:18 am
Diluted Reality.
1. How did the majority of the fighting during ww2? Three nations tops? So I could really care what the other 44 nations are doing. Second when where in Afghanistan or Iraq? Becuase if it was in the early parts things have changed a lot.
2. Do you think that it is just by chance that the increased pressure put on the Taliban in Pakistan has lead the current government cracking down on the militants there?
I wouldn’t do that, there is not much to waste there.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:37 am
Greg.
Victor is a coward plan and simple. He singed up and should fulfill his obligations that he raised his right hand to uphold. As far as going to “war” that could mean many things, on one extreme you could be dealing with firefights and IED hits on a regular basis. On the other you could just be sitting in the TOC in the AC and having to deal with the occasional indirect fire attack. Considering that his job is a non-combat mos the chance of him having to face the dangers of a real “war” is low at best.
Also you are talking about him not knowing what to expect in a eight year military service and not knowing enough? We are in TWO conflict zones with people doing two our more deployments, did he honesty expect that just because you deployed once that you will never deploy again? To say that being deployed once as a excuse to not be deployed again is as pathetic as it gets.
Being deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq is not a illegal order. I will say this; I will never apologies for any actions that I have been personally or taking part in OIF and soon to be OEF if my intuition is right.
The conventional war stopped, but to leave Iraq as it originally would have left it similar to Somalia
or the former Yugoslavia. Oh and the official government is Somalia is sanctioned by the UN and I think they control one city out of the entire country. Is that the way you wanted Iraq too look like?
“you should believe that all of us have the responsibility to stand up for what we believe is right.”
I do, that is why I am in Iraq.
May 19th, 2009 at 6:45 am
Greg, who said anything about supporting the war? I didn’t say I did, or did not support the war; did I? See, the fallacy is that living up to your obligations, whether it be paying back the money you borrowed to buy a car (signed contract saying you would do so) or finishing out your term as stated in your contract to the US government. Now, who said anything about Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld? This is Obama, not Bush, and you need to get over that. How long have we been in Bosnia? Yeah, that’s right, we didn’t have a declaration of war there; did we? How about Kosovo? No mention of a declaration of war there, either.
Your problem is that you are mixing politics in with military service. Democracy is a wonderful thing, however, when you raise your right hand, you fall under the UCMJ and your “rights” are explained from that point on, not the civilian version. You need to stop mixing and matching to fit your agenda. You are the one making this political, not me. The average grunt is a-political because the decisions are made by civilians, including congress, not just the President, Vice President, and the SecDef. That’s what you need to understand, just like you need to understand that your boogeyman Bush is no longer in charge. The person you voted for is and he’s the one that ordered the troop surge in Afghanistan, not Bush.
I’m looking at this from the military side of things. You prefer to paint him as this hapless victim that was duped into joining the military and had no idea what he was signing. nice try, but I ain’t buying it. I was 18, when I signed up, and I fulfilled my obligation and then some and it didn’t matter if I liked it, or not, I did it. We had one smarmy dude that tried for a year and a half to get out, used up all his resources to finally get out and made it out 3 months shy of his full enlistment. I’m sure he’s digging that less than honorable discharge to this day.
This is not about politics, or dick measuring, this is about someone choosing to be a coward. Those that said Iraq was illegal and immoral have more to stand on than those saying it about Afghanistan, because I know several that were/are against us being in Iraq, but support us being in Afghanistan.
The punk needed to man-up, but chose to be a wuss, that’s it.
May 19th, 2009 at 8:35 am
“I could waste my intellect all day trying to explain these things to you people, but I’ll leave you with 2 thoughts”. So sayeth Reality Check. Thank goodness you don’t want to waste it, because you have little intellect to waste. And proving just that by your little rant at the end of your post.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Random potshots from the bird.I’ll probably piss off everyone, “neocons” and “progressives” alike….
1. The Occupation of Afghanistan is a waste of time because they are tribal savages who love being in the stone age. We should have went in guns blazing after 9/11, killed as many Al Quaida as possible and left.
2.The conventional war stopped, but to leave Iraq as it originally would have left it similar to Somalia
or the former Yugoslavia. Which is fine with me, give them lots of guns and they’ll aggressively reduce the so called “overpopulation issue” that some like douche nozzle Ted Turner say we need to address. Oh and the official government is Somalia is sanctioned by the UN, which is an organization we should abandon and kick out of our country. I don’t give a damn about either Iraq or Afghanistan, they are all adults there and can run their own affairs.
3. I did see 44 other nations on my tour, with the notable exception of the U.K. and Dominion Nations, most were fucking off, or avoiding contact. Shows how grateful they were for us keeping Ivan out of their back yards during the Cold War.
4. There is no such thing and never has been a stable Pakistan or Afghanistan.
5.We’re all assholes here, let’s have a HMMWV chariot race.
6. Misanthropy means never having to say you’re sorry.
7. Is there truly a difference between a neoclown and a prostitutegressive?
8. If you’re not American, I HATE YOU!
May 19th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Oh, yeah, if you sign an 8 year contract with the goobernmint and it becomes inconvenient you’re a fool and you probably think more socialist goobernmint in your life is the epitome of compassion…
May 19th, 2009 at 9:27 am
OldTrooper: Is adherence to an oath or contract a valid excuse for betraying one’s conscience?
I don’t like stop-loss, but I would have deployed if this war made any sense. I am a coward. I am afraid to die and kill for a war that doesn’t make the American people any safer. I would much rather lose my educational benefits and serve jail time.
For the record: I was a fobbit in Iraq. I had no traumatic experiences there. That experience doesn’t change the fact that both wars are wrong.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Loyalists? Aren’t you suppose to wait until your fantasy socialist revolution to happens first? Also if we are the “loyalist”s for supporting America, what does that make you?
But seriously? All that claimed intelligence and that is the best you could come up with? If the risk is low then there would seem to be less reason for him to avoid deploying. Also you may want to read his statements above before you start typing.
Funny you bring that up about the American revolution. Becuase early on, most of the army was not getting paid so whole units walked off their post. It was happening so many times that Washington had several executed because the Continental Army would soon vanish.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Except we have heard all of this before. It is just a excuse and nothing more. No one is asking you to rape, pillage and murder.
My view on Iraq varies, before the invasion I would say that attacking Iraq would be a bad idea considering we had Afghanistan to deal with. But since we are here, it needs to be taken care of. Also it is about time that people need to step up so that the people that have been on multiple tours can get much needed rest. Regardless of we had left Iraq right after 03 it would have been MUCH worse then it is now.
No one wants to get killed, but I think that some things are worth risking personal safety for. Now I am sure that you will ask is not deploying worth all the punishments that can come with it? That is something your going to have to answer. But mark my words, the IVAW will toss you as soon as you become a inconvenience.
Let me ask you, how many times did you get a chance to talk to the locals? Becuase if there is any good to be done, it’s here. I have been able to help by giving much needed medical supplies to the Iraqi police, Army and population. Long story short, I gave them a fighting chance to survive if attacked. I am proud to be able to do that, and I will not apologize for be being in Iraq, now or ever.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:04 am
If it’s been established that Victor would be in a support role on the FOB and face no real danger, than how is he a coward for resisting. Please disarm your argument some more. You can say politics are separate from the military, but you’d sound like an idiot, because it’s so far from the truth it’s not funny. The military is the executive arm of politics. Old men don’t pose a threat until young men back up what they say with guns and bombs. Fuck you retarded loyalist assholes. There were people just like you when this country was founded writing off the sons of liberty and the original revolutionaries. You claim to love America, but apparently you have no fucking clue what it was founded on. Fuck all of you high school dropout lemmings.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:17 am
I have a law degree, so how about you go fuck yourself and try to read a book yourself.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Victor: As I asked in my first post; what did you join the military for? You joined in time of war, so it’s a good bet that you would go to a warzone. The obligation is 8 years, period. Whether you have a problem with the war and your view of whether it makes sense, or not, should have been decided before you signed up. Your obligation to your conscience should have been decided before you raised your right hand. Whether you feel that both wars are wrong, should have been decided before you joined. As for making us safer……When was the last attack on the US?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:31 am
I disagree vehemently with how the war is being managed instead of being fought, I LOATHE just about every assclown in D.C. be they republikrat or demican, give 2 monkey shits about the people of Afghanistan or Iraq, however Victorkins signed a contract with Uncle Sam. The contract is inconvenient? Too Bad, So Sad.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:40 am
If it’s been established that Victor would be in a support role on the FOB and face no real danger, than how is he a coward for resisting. Please disarm your argument some more.
You first, shitbird; If, as you say, Miss Victor faced no danger as Fobbit Of The Year, and yet STILL “resisted”, then I think that pretty much proves his bona fides as a coward, doncha think? That being said, I have a buddy sitting at Benning right now in the wounded warrior program, 300 miles away from his wife and kids…I guess you could reasonably say he was FOB as a gunbunny, but wounded he is, and a coward he most assuredly is not. When his unit out of Thompson GA was called, his ass was there. Maybe you’d like to drive down to Benning and explain to him how we should all go fuck ourselves for thinking Prince Victor is nothing but the dingleberry on the pucker on the ass of humanity? I’m sure he’d love to hear your side of the story.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Reality Bites: I just love getting the intellectual midgets panties all in a wad. You can’t lay out a proper re-buttal, so you start in with your drooling moonbat, foaming at the mouth screed. I have more respect for Victor than you, since he made his case without vitriol. I don’t agree with him, but I respect that he defended his actions without slobbering like you are.
You say I’m the idiot, yet you can’t even figure out how our government is divided up, for example: “The military is the executive arm of politics.” Really? I would think that such a learned person would know that the military is not part of any politics. Politicians (civilians) make the policy, the military is a tool for maintaining that policy. Which ever President/administration/congress is in power, they make the policy, the military carries it out on the orders of the administration.
Then, you devolve into a profanity laden screed wherein you put many words in my mouth that I never said, in order to attempt to bolster your own pathetic argument.
Oh, btw I have a degree in engineering, so I think I made it past high school. You, on the other hand, if you do have an advanced degree, I would ask for my money back.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Manners are wasted on assclowns like you. You talk about your friend in Benning…I have friends who are dead and wounded also. Why would you want that for anyone else? What noble cause are we fighting for? We are weakening the Army, we are weakening our national security. We are going my the Romeside. This is exactly what happened to the Nazis. I’m not socialist btw, but thanks for setting us back about 50 years.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Washington also said not to get involved in permanent alliances or foreign affairs that don’t affect us.
Jonn wrote: Oh, yeah? What was the exact quote?
May 19th, 2009 at 11:45 am
You mean the same Washington that requested help from the French (Lafayette) and Prussian individuals (Von Steuben) and others?
May 19th, 2009 at 11:46 am
And thanks for the Nazi reference, that has been proven to win every argument. But, just for the sake of historic consistency, perhaps you could explain just what in the holy hell you are talking about.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:52 am
“…avoid the necessity of those overgrown military establishments, which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to Republican Liberty.”
France was supposed to be a temporary alliance
“It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world…”
I’m speaking of the Nazis spreading their armies thin through empirical expansion and leaving their homeland vulnerable. We do the same thing now through the neo-colonialism we so liberally slather all over the globe instead of minding our own damned business.
Jonn wrote: It’s important to provide the context of the quote – not just pick and choose which lines you like;
“Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.”
See? He was talking about an imperial Europe, particularly France, England and Spain who were constantly at war with each other. And, with whom have we forged artificial ties, any-damn-way? Neo-colonialism? What countries are we colonizing?
May 19th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Your talking points have fecal matter on them.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I am getting the sudden urdge to request a DD214 check on our friend here.
May 19th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Sporkmaster, you quoted;
“you should believe that all of us have the responsibility to stand up for what we believe is right.”
and use that as justification for your service in Iraq, yet you can’t see that this is exactly what Victor is doing?
May 19th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
MikeDee: The issue is this: If you want to protest, etc.; that’s fine, however you either do it before, or after, you finish your obligation. Doing it while you are in and scheduled for deployment only makes you look very foolish and downright cowardly. If a person’s conscience troubles them enough to not fulfill their responsibilities, then they shouldn’t have signed up to begin with, especially in wartime.
A person that doesn’t have the honor to complete their obligation is someone I couldn’t count on whether in the military, or in civilian life. Trust is something that has to be earned and once lost, is very hard to get back. Any organization that helps, encourages, or enables, people to shirk their responsibilities, or defy lawful orders (yeah, his was a lawful order) is just as untrustworthy. Calling it courage, is only said to make you feel better about yourself and doesn’t cover the truth that it is actually cowardice.
Everyone that supports that decision, like the two old biities in the picture, and fills that person’s head full of crap aren’t going to be the ones doing time in the stockade, or around 10 or 20 years down the line when that person finally has to come to grips with a decision that affects employment, etc. Will an employer feel he can trust someone that couldn’t finish his obligations before, especially i the person doing the hiring is a Vet? Let’s not even get into companies that have government contracts, because there are more than you think. That is what awaits them, Victor now, too.
So, you sit up there and encourage and support this all you want, because it doesn’t affect you. However, it makes you look just as cowardly.
May 19th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
OldTrooper:
I can understand and even agree with your argument to some extent, however, what you are basically saying is that a person does not have the right or ability to adapt their belief system once they are under contract.
To be perfectly honest with you I don’t agree with Victors methods. However, I know him personally and serve with him currently, and I respect him a great deal, both before and after I heard about his current issue with the deployment.
If Victor were truly a coward, he would have simply gone AWOL. He is making a conscience decision to use this issue to make a political statement and is willing to accept the concequences for it. That is not cowardice.
May 19th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
You made my point for me: The military is no place to make a political statement, that has been my argument from the beginning. If, when he gets done with his service, he wants to protest, scream, holler, jump around, etc.; fine, but not while you are in. The is no room for political statements/actions in the military. That’s for the halls of congress.
May 19th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
I am done with this post. The only value of yours I ask you to bend is, and forgive me if my neo-con nutcase stereotype is inaccurate, to at least consider using birth control. Lots and lots of birth control. I hear bleach works well. Of course you could always just have someone kick your sister/cousin in the jaw then you (and I) wouldn’t have to worry about you procreating. Toodles!
Jonn wrote: Ah, so I mistakenly thought you wanted to engage us on the issues and when I did, you attempt to make redneck jokes. SO I guess we know why you reallt came here, don’t we?
May 19th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
OldTimer:
I don’t neccessarily agree. If I felt strongly enough about an issue pertaining to my service I would follow my value system, no matter what the popular opinion was. Regardless of whether or not you believe there is no place for it, it exists and can’t be ignored.
I would actually agree with you if the case was that Victor had enlisted with his current beliefs as strong as they are and hadn’t already deployed. This isn’t the case, he HAS deployed and obviously feels strong enough about the issue to do what he is doing.
Regardless of whether you agree with the war or not, or agree with his actions, the simplest thing for him to do would have been to go AWOL and slink off into the night. He didn’t, and is facing the concequences like a man. THAT is commendable.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
lol. I needed this. I see why you have to make up funny names to post with. if you take an oath to uphold the laws of the U.S. (which include the treaties we’re signed on to) than how you can participate in wars & occupations that violate those laws?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
What a jag-off organization MFSO is – talking points (cause all dope smoking dirty hippies can’t thing for themselves) for May – The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are denying the Iraq and Afghan people the ability to determine their own future. The best way for Congress and the President to uphold our country’s values and honor our troops’ commitment and sacrifice is to bring the troops home now and let the Iraqi and the Afghan people decide their own course.
Kinda like how President Clinton let the Tutsis and Hutu’s work it out in Rowanda? Moron.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
1,000,000 Iraqis dead? Really David Dixon? I think your group really ought to check their numbers, at least for Iraqi dead. The Lancet study is really not a reliable source, and your web site multiplies the figures in the Lancet Study by a factor of 10.
MikeDee, so it’s ok to enlist(volunteer), then when you find that further obeying the orders of those appointed over you becomes inconvenient, it’s ok to bug out? Cuz that’s what Victor’s doing.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
OH, and Mr.s Dixon, what does your organization need with a National Organizer, you’ve got one in the White House, you know, Obama’s place.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
UpNorth if you are going to put words in my mouth I’m not going to bother trying to have a civilized discussion with you.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:01 am
Hey lets keep the dialogue going this started last night and is still going. Let me throw my two cents in (ok with inflation its three cents). We talk about morals and legal versus illegal orders, how about DUTY! As a soldier/ marine, airman and or sailor, we/ you have a DUTY ( and I feel a moral duty) to your fellows to fulfill your obligation, especially if your an NCO/ OFFICER. Simply because if you don’t, someone else has too. You put another individual in harms way, if your an NCO OR OFFICER you put your troops in danger, by not being there for them, surely I don’t need to explain this to any of you that been around for a while.
Just fulfill your contracts/ obligation/ duties, and go your own way. Please believe me I would love to take one of you alls place. Not to much need for a broken old (51yrs) tanker.
I’m a retired Nasty Girl (retired reserve) that tried to get back in, when my old unit got moblized for OIF and tried again when old unit got moblizied for OEF. What sux is Uncle Sam can call me back at HIS discretion but I couldn’t go back volunterially (sorry about spelling). Thanks for your service and time. God bless our Troops and God speed. Armor Up!
May 20th, 2009 at 5:27 am
Mike
He signed up in a time of war to serve the needs of the military. America called upon him to do his duty. They are not asking him to go an exterminate towns to the last man woman and child. Not to indescribably kill or face suicide missions that would leave him crippled and wounded at best. He is no different from the police officers that abandoned their posts when Katrina hit.
So he has deployed once? So what? My next door neighbor before he moved has deployed THREE times in a 6 year period. Is he happy about it? No, but he did it because that is what he signed up for. There was no draft or forced conscription. He say money and free education with the hopes that he will have a easy job bar hopping every weekend. He is a fraud.
Hardly, because of his actions even if they do not send him, he is robbing time from someone else who will most likely replace him. Imagine having two our more deployments done and being told that you have to go again because someone got cold feet. Did that ever cross your mind at all?
I cannot wait to see a conflict that you support where people try to desert using the same logic.
Also since the people he likes to hang around seem to like Che and communism, I wonder what they would think of how Soviet Russia handled deserters.
http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/10730-stalins-order-227-a.html
May 20th, 2009 at 5:51 am
Morning to all you early birds. Debbie good to hear from you. I jumped over and read your blog, found it interesting ,no really! I don’t agree with all you say but don’t disagree either with everything you say. I know that sounds pretty wishy washy but I learned that more times than not its best to here both sides of an argument. The opinion I stated earlier still stands. My question is simply this. What was/is the so called UNLAWFUL order? The order to deploy or what. A soldier doesn’t get to pick the fights very often thats usually left up to the politicians. Which you do say. gotta go for now. God bless our troops.
May 20th, 2009 at 8:33 am
I didn’t put words in your mouth, Mike. Just asking a question, which you apparently don’t want to or can’t answer. The question remains, but I won’t type it again.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Hi ssgDIRTYAL,
I think my post was disappeared, so I wrote a response on my own blog and you can read it there (click on my name – it is linked).
Please leave your comments on my blog about this issue, but FYI if I get anything the likes of GI Jane, it will be removed. (My blog = My rules)
May 21st, 2009 at 3:25 am
I posted there too, if you do not mind.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Also, I like penis. Lots and lots of penis. Preferably large and black.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Really? I’m more of a chorizo guy…mmm soft latinos..
May 21st, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Debbie, you cherry pick one comment, that the wars “might” be unconstitutional, and parse that into validating Agosto’s stand? When one court of competent jurisdiction makes that determination, and it survives review by the SCOTUS, he might have an argument. Until then, he doesn’t.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Great, seems someone went joyriding with my log in name.
May 21st, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Before I joined the Army, I trusted the government to only send me to war if it was absolutely necessary. After two years in the Army, I realized that joining was the biggest mistake of my life. I have realized that our government is far more responsive to the needs of corporate America than to the needs of the American people as a whole. These wars threaten both the physical and fiscal security of our nation. They result in the needless deaths of American troops and Iraqi civilians.
Some of you have talked about “duty.” I am a human being first and a soldier second. It is my duty as a human being to listen to follow my conscience.
May 21st, 2009 at 5:07 pm
human being to follow my conscience.*
May 21st, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Coward to run away from your Brothers in Arms
May 21st, 2009 at 5:16 pm
You think your only one how joined up to find out that the army is not for them? Most people just let their contract expire, grab their GI bill and move on with there lives.
There is always going to be corruption and mismanagement. The disaster in LA was a perfect example. But did the corruption there mean that the police that left their posts justified?
So deserting will some how improve it? Your going to Afghanistan, a country that even Wadata says had a direct connection to 9/11. Also the majority of the deaths in population in Iraq and Afghanistan have not been by us. Also how many times did you go out while you where in Iraq?
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
“Debbie Clark Says:
May 20th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Hi ssgDIRTYAL,
Please leave your comments on my blog about this issue, but FYI if I get anything the likes of GI Jane, it will be removed. (My blog = My rules)”
Make sure you don’t visit my blog either, sweetpea.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com
MY BLOG MY RULES. Howdya like me now?
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am
Victor, I will not disrespect you, I would never call anyone thats been to a Combat zone a coward (even if you never lift the wire?). I know morters and rockets can fly over said wire.I just have problem w/ people who all of a sudden start MORAL grandstanding. I will say this you seem to be willing to take your medicine. So good luck w/ that. If I may I’d like to share a little story. One of my best friends and Club Brother’s (we’re in a VETS m/c), son was A Marine. Well my BRO’S son was in Fallujah, 2nd fight I believe. Well his best friend pretty much got vaporized right in front of him. Please no disrespect intended, but thats about what happened. My BRO’S son was devastaded. He made it home, wasn’t home for too long before he got more redeployment orders, he then went AWOL. He eventually turned his self in after much urging from from family and friends. Now for my point. I could never call my friend’s son a coward, not with out putting myself in his position. If your scared say your sacred, I know I would be, this is my little MORAL compass. ” There is no GREATTER LOVE than for a man to lay down his life for another.” Thats my DUTY. This Memorial Day I pray for our troops and ask Gods blessings on them> Thank you all for your service and thanks too all who have made the ULTIMATE SACRIFICE.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:03 am
GI Jane, I think you win the prize hands-down for being the most obnoxious person here, however, my previous statement was not intended to be a personal insult, but a reference to the extreme vulgarity of your writing. You are welcome to post on my blog, but if you post any vulgarity, it will be removed. I’m not sure if you have the intelligence to write anything without vulgarity, so that will probably keep you away anyway.
And if I get any more neurotic complaints about the so-call “breast exposure” on my blog being dirty, which is my grown, married daughter breastfeeding her son (something I’m sure you don’t know anything about), I may invite my daughter to respond personally. You would not want to be subjected to that…
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Ok, whomever the childish fuck was that put a post up in my name, you have just crossed a line that really wasn’t necessary for you to do. I surmise that you are either still in highschool, or a college punk that needs an ass whoopin. I would like to assist you in that, however, because I know that you have no aspirations to get out from under your momma’s skirt, so you resort to using someone elses identity, I figure you will eventually get what’s coming to you. Probably not from me (which I really would like), but maybe from someone that won’t show the restraint that I would.
Good luck in hiding behind your betters in order to try and be a grown up.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, OldTrooper. I guess he did it to a few others, too. It was none other than Victor Agosto himself. Notice the IP Addresses.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Someone from the IVAW using other folks’ screen names? Say it ain’t so Jonn. What a Turd!!!
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Some of you have talked about “duty.” I am a human being first and a soldier second. It is my duty as a human being to listen to follow my conscience.
A duty dodged is like a debt unpaid; it is only deferred, and we must come back and settle the account at last.
Your definition of duty seems a bit self serving, but then again, I suppose that was to be expected of someone who clearly thinks that changing the parameters of their oath can be done at will. I wish you the best in the future…you’re going to need it.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Thanks for checking into that, Jonn. I guess I was wrong in my assessment of mr. Agosto in that I thought he was mature enough to make and defend his decision as an adult. I’m glad, then, that he has chosen the path he is currently on, since I do not want someone as juvenile and immature watching the back of someone who needs to count on him. Of course, he has proven, already, that he can’t be counted on.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Just another reason to think his motives are suspect. I figured it was reality check that was causing all the trouble. But with this, something tells me we will not be hearing from victor again.
May 24th, 2009 at 1:04 am
I realize I’m late to this party but I have a question. I’ve been hearing for years now that the war in Iraq was illegal, now I’m reading that OEF is illegal too. Just who the heck decided this? Who do we answer to that says this war is illegal? I say this war because it’s really only one war. The GWOT. Al Qaeda attacked us and were sheltered by the Taliban. Classic case for war. Whether you were for or against Iraq, the fact is that Saddam had numerous chances to comply with UN directives and he didn’t. The world will not act without U.S. leadership. Whether going in was smart or not is for historians to decide but how do some people keep making that leap to illegality?
May 24th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
If I wanted to insult, mock, or call you names, I would do so. I don’t feel the need to hide behind a fake screen names. I have better things to do with my time.
May 24th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
As for the IP addresses: I’m not sure about how IP addresses are generated, but I think that if someone else is using the same wireless router as me, they would have the same IP address. Under the Hood offers free wireless access if you ever want to visit us in Killeen.
May 24th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
It would have also have been from the same computer too. So unless someone is following the exact same websites as you from the exact same computer. Yea.
May 24th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Also the fact that your IVAW that seems to have a habit of lying does not bold well for us to believe you.
May 24th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Jonn, why not just block that IP address? Seems the way to go, then we wouldn’t have the cockroaches infesting the site.
May 24th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
No need to believe me, Sporkmaster. I’ve been up front with everyone, including the Army. I have no reason to lie to you. I won’t be posting here anymore. Have a nice life
May 24th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Ok, Victor, I’ll bite. Does anyone else have access to your computer? If they do, then that might give you plausible deniability. And, if they do, then maybe you should secure it better. However, if no one else has access to it, that would make it more difficult to believe.
May 24th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
The IVAW upfront? That is a joke, and no I am sure that you will back for more trolling.
May 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
They are like crackheads, Spork, they can’t help themselves. Trolling apparently gives their life meaning.
May 25th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Wow, you people really all give Soldiers a bad name. I served with Victor in Iraq, he is a good guy. You people need to get a life and get off Vic. Stay in your line, if you even have one. You sound like some washed up trailer trash.
May 25th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Wow! I guess we were wrong, guys!
Sorry, SGT.
Where did you serve, high-speed.
May 26th, 2009 at 2:42 am
No he is not, he walked away from his obligation. So in Iraq you did what? I served(ing) in Iraq too so what is your point? Man up and go to Afghanistan.
May 27th, 2009 at 3:56 am
found some interesting stuff on him. Seems this is a blog from a guy in his unit.
http://www.armymyspace.com/
So this guy in my unit, while at first looked like he had some kind of plan, going the contentious objector route, opted instead to take the fools route. I had a talk or two with him, asking him what his plan of attack was going to be, do you have a back up plan and so on. To me a good leader will do his best to help even if that leader doesn’t agree with the choice being made by the soldier!! At some point his plan was to just disobey any and every order given to him!! During a process we all have to go through before we can get a green light to go, he was told by our First Sergeant to get some paperwork he needed to complete this process, his response was a firm ” NO!” I was shocked when I heard it the first time and by the third go around I was concerned my First Sergeants was going to go into a blind rage and choke this guy out.
Also a new video on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-pG1VNcy3A
March 19th, 2010 at 2:35 am
in response to greg foster’s post
# 25Greg Foster Says: May 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
agosto has not gone to “war”, he has simply deployed to a war zone area like most non-combat troops. he was never in direct or indirect danger. i served in the same company as him and saw him most days. he played video games, did PT, e-mail and called home, and went to work. he, like myself, is a “signal donkey” we support those that fight and support the fighter with voice and data communications. very few personnel from our unit spent time outside the large bases. the most he came to losing his life is when he decided to stop showering on a regular basis and a soldier threatened to pummel him and spray him down with lisol if he did not shower immediately. the most of “war” he ever saw was the locals that worked on the base. agosto and travis are both dimwitted idiots, brainwashed by the activists at the under the hood cafe.
[OldTrooper: Victor has been to “war”. He has already deployed to Iraq. Do you really think a person can make a decision that effects them for the next 8 years and really know enough about that decision? Of course not.]
as for standing for our beliefs. that is fine, but in the military, you swallow your beliefs like everyone else. you digest them into an unrecongizable, uniform turd, and crap out the ARMY beliefs as your own until the day comes when you no longer serve in the military and you can begin to vommit out all your own beliefs once again.
[If you believe in Democracy, you should believe that all of us have the responsibility to stand up for what we believe is right. But that doesn’t fit in with your brand of flag waving. Fine.]
sgt. lomeli 57th ESB (not 53rd)
March 19th, 2010 at 3:42 am
Leave Victor alone, he’s a little frickin’ slow… joined-up during a war, saw a lot of guys gettin’ shot up on the news before, had a lot of guys to to Iraq and Afghanistan during his time in, doesn’t want to waste time before he can get out and smoke blunts all day, and still can’t figure out that he’s a soldier and supposed to go fight. Not only did he ride the short bus, they kicked him off because he could work sitting in a seat.
March 19th, 2010 at 6:12 am
agosto and travis. i wish them well, i wish them happines, but most of all i wish they had joined the peace corps. maybe then they be the happiest turds alive. plus they wouldn’t have landed in jail or fort hood. good life and great days guys hope all is merry with you two’s. not. losers and cowards. have fun.
March 19th, 2010 at 6:20 am
Oh, sorry… “he coulN’T work sitting in a seat.” Damn my lousy spelling. Victor’s still a left/libtard wienie.
June 28th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Debbie,
How’s this for obnoxious:
Lady, I don’t give a shit what you think of me or anything else for that matter. I have my own style of writing. I’m blunt, to the point, and I don’t mince words. Trust me, I’ll not be posting on you blog,
Secondly, I couldn’t care less about your daughter’s breasts or her feeding habits for her kid. I don’t recall making any comments about it to begin with. As for your daughter, tell her to BRING IT ON. I don’t think she or you would weant to be subjected to my wrath.
Now go back to writing about breastfeeding, or whatever else floats your boat.
October 4th, 2011 at 4:50 am
I have been browsing online more than three hours today, yet I never found any interesting article like yours. It’s pretty worth enough for me. In my view, if all web owners and bloggers made good content as you did, the net will be much more useful than ever before.
May 14th, 2013 at 12:01 am
hello there and thank you for your info – I have certainly picked up anything new from right here. I did however expertise a few technical issues using this site, as I experienced to reload the site lots of times previous to I could get it to load properly. I had been wondering if your web hosting is OK? Not that I am complaining, but sluggish loading instances times will sometimes affect your placement in google and can damage your quality score if advertising and marketing with Adwords. Well I am adding this RSS to my email and could look out for a lot more of your respective fascinating content. Make sure you update this again soon..
May 14th, 2013 at 8:56 pm
Definitely believe that which you stated. Your favorite justification seemed to be on the net the simplest thing to be aware of. I say to you, I definitely get annoyed while people think about worries that they just don’t know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and defined out the whole thing without having side-effects , people could take a signal. Will probably be back to get more. Thanks
May 22nd, 2013 at 10:38 pm
{Hi there, just became aware of your blog through Google, and found that it is truly informative. I am gonna watch out for brussels. I’ll appreciate if you continue this in future. A lot of people will be benefited from your writing. Cheers!
May 23rd, 2013 at 11:14 am
I’m
Late in putting my two cents’ worth in, but here it is: I enlisted for three years of Active Duty in the Army in 1991, and came back into the Guard in 2003 as soon as I saw that it would get me deployed. I’ve done two ME tours since, I’m still in a Combat Arms MOS, and I’ll go again as soon as I get my orders! You, Victor, are a cowardly opportunist, and you deserve a stint in jail bein Bubba & Thor’s cell bitch! The difference between you, your ilk, and a dog turd is that the dog turd quits stinking after a few days!!