I’m sorry, did my back scratch your knife?
melle1228 sends us a link from the Army Times in which John McCain throws military retirees under the bus.
“Military retirees and their families deserve the best possible care in return for a career of military service, and nothing less,” McCain said on the Senate floor during debate on the $526 billion defense authorization bill for fiscal 2012.
“But we cannot ignore the fact that health care costs will undermine the combat capability and training and readiness of our military if we don’t begin to control the cost growth now,” he said.
You know what else undermines our military capabilities? Throwing taxpayer dollars down the dark hole of the Education Department and the Commerce Department. And hiring legions of lawyers for the Environmental Protection Agency…but I don’t see anyone threatening those agencies.
And, oh, yeah, in a related article from the Army Times, McCain is reportedly thinking about pulling our Tricare Prime out from under us;
McCain, ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, has proposed barring military retirees from signing up for Tricare Prime, the least expensive Tricare option available to them.
Yeah, well, fuck you, too, ya pencil-dick moron. So how do I get my youth back after fulfilling my end of the contract, fuckhead? After yapping about supporting the troops, he has no problem sticking it right up our collective ass now.
Where the fuck is the American Legion, the VFW and DAV now? Yeah, they write mean editorials, but why aren’t they camped outside of this fuckstick’s office? Dave Rehbein went straight to Obama’s office when Obama tried to buttfuck us. Where is Fang Wong?
November 17th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
I especially like how they bemoan the enormous increase in military health care costs since 2001. Gee, ignorant dipshits, what ever could have happened to cause military health care costs to increase since 2001? I haven’t done the research, but I’d bet my left testicle that military health care costs took a gigantic leap upward beginning 7 Dec 1941 and lasting for about 4 years after that too. Ignoramuses, the whole lot of them. Of course, McCain has his very generous Senate health care plan to fall back on; he don’t need no stinking Tricare, Prime or otherwise.
November 17th, 2011 at 7:59 pm
I especially love his quote which basically says that “hey we know we promised you guys healthcare, but guess what we made promises to ALL Americans and we are going to keep those at the expense of you.”
Why isn’t this guy doing something useful like repealing Obamacare? Obamacare expenses will make Tricare expenses like a drop in the bucket.
Heck, it could rescind Congressional benefits and retirement as good faith, but McCain seems to be singling out Veterans.
November 17th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
just wait until all our troops are out of IZ and AF…then they’ll start cutting everything and act like we were never really needed. But as soon as the next war comes along, they’ll be waving the flags and shouting “support the troops”…
I think I’ll just fade off into the sunset and try to be happy with my memories….opppsss. forgot…
November 17th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
@3. No you won’t. None of us will. We daydream about doing that sort of thing but few ever do. And you know why. As for McCain, enough with the platitudes and I-feel-your-pain-but crapola. The economy will not be saved by military cuts to personnel and benefits. It just won’t. The freakin’ boat is taking on water and he’s bailing with a teaspoon–all for show. Well, the American people do not expect our military–active or retired–to foot the bill any more than they have already. This may be the rallying point and the boiling point. Now is the time to consolidate forces and let voices be heard–loudly, firmly, and clearly. This takes organization and deliberation but most of all, it takes leaders. They are about. Now is when they need to step up. There’s an army awaiting them.
November 17th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
AC #4: There are, indeed, leaders out there. Tricky bit is maintaining a narrow enough focus to be affective. As Jonn notes the VSOs should be taking the lead here.
We’ll see?
November 17th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
@3
Sounds kind of like
For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!
November 17th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
Zero: It’s a funny thing about leaders and leadership. Those who are in positions of leadership often don’t–or can’t–lead when the shit hits the fan. I agree that VFW/AL should be out front but they are alrteady late. I’m not certain who it will be but it’s going to happen–and he who steps up will reap the strength of millions and people , such as Senator McCain, can then tell us how they have reconsidered their postions.
November 17th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
I don’t care, get rid of TriCare all-together. Socialism is bad for everyone else, it should be bad for us as well, right? While we’re at it, we need to drastically scale back retirement benefits for REMFs and non-combat veterans. A full pension for sitting on your ass for thirty years in some rarely deployed MOS? No thanks, moocher. That’s more ridiculous than union benefits.
November 17th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
Rueta Covorp Norom (Moron Provocateur). Your comment does befit both a moron and a provocateur but it may be that you are just having a little fun. I don’t know.
November 17th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
I don’t get it, do you agree that we need to rid socialism from our government? Or do you disagree, and believe we need to heavily subsidize healthcare for government employees that comfortably retire in their late thirties, forties and early fifties?
November 17th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
@#8
Based on the tenor of your response it’s clear debating with you would be a waste of better spent energies, however it bears mentioning that the United States fullfilling it’s CONTRACTUAL obligations to those OF US who were expected to fulfill OURS is NOT socialism.
And take care to remember your history.
“We had been told, on leaving our native soil, that we were to defend the sacred rights conferred on us by so many of our citizens settled overseas, so many years of our presence, so many benefits brought by us to populations in need of our assistance and civilization. We were able to verify that this was true, and because it was true, we did not hesitate to shed our quota of blood, to sacrifice our youth and our hopes. We regretted nothing, but whereas we over here are inspired by their frame of mind, I am told that in Rome factions and conspiracies are rife, that treachery flourishes, and that many people in their uncertainty and confusion lend a ready ear to the dire temptations of relinquishment and vilify our action. I cannot believe that all this true, and yet recent wars have shown how pernicious such a state of mind could be and to where it could lead. Make haste to reassure me, I beg you, and tell me that our fellow citizens understand us, support us and protect us as we protect the glory of the Empire. If it should be otherwise, if we should leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then BEWARE THE ANGER OF THE LEGIONS!!”
From a letter written by Marcus Flavinius, a centurion in the second cohort of the Augusta Legion serving overseas, to his cousin, Tertullus, in Rome
November 17th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
“John McCain is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”
November 17th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
So as long as it’s in a contract, and there exists a threat of government overthrow, it’s not Socialism. Got it.
November 17th, 2011 at 11:17 pm
Gee, thank you for The Full Sandusky.
November 18th, 2011 at 12:34 am
Jonn,
I’m like you – retired after 26 years and my body some days feels 20 years older than my chronological age (49)…McCain is nothing but a BLUE FALCON – damn Navy Tech grad forgot his roots some time ago (like day one of his political career). I guess that happens when you marry into money…your conscious gets to play second fiddle to your wife’s checking account (and the friends that the money and influence buys in the process).
As for the VSO’s…don’t get me started – I have yet to see one that has actually put the military members, retirees, Disabled Vets and their families first. They are more concerned about filling their coffers and butt kissing the pols @$$E$ at our expense and give the standard BS about “we’re fighting the good fight to keep your benefits”…while Congress slowly lets them get eaten away. Until there is an organization out there that actually goes to bat for the military and those who have served, and sacrificed, none of them will get one f’ing dime from me.
November 18th, 2011 at 12:49 am
Since when does deferred compensation = “socialism?”
November 18th, 2011 at 12:59 am
“Deferred compensation” isn’t bottomless and doesn’t include heavily subsidized health insurance, and it’s pretty rare for it to start at 38 years old and last for life.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:18 am
>“Deferred compensation” isn’t bottomless and doesn’t include heavily subsidized health insurance, and it’s pretty rare for it to start at 38 years old and last for life.
No it is a compensation for serving 20 years where you don’t see your kids or your wives for months on end. For taking a risk, and just because some aren’t “combat veterans”- it didn’t mean that their job wasn’t inheritantly dangerous.
It is the compensation needed for people to actually volunteer for the military and risk their lives. And defense of this nation (and all its compensations-little they may be)is actually one of the 18 enumerated powers granted to Congress to fund. You want to cut entitlements-look to medicaid and Obamacare. Those are coompensations that aren’t earned.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:39 am
El… oh… el. That’s called life, son. Should we start an entitlement program for truckers? How about oil workers? There are a lot of people that keep this machine running, bub. It’s not just the poor supply officer that has to deploy occasionally.
Public sector benefits are out of line with private sector benefits. If you haven’t personally traded bullets with Terry, as far as I’m concerned you’re just another person who *chose* a career that requires a lot of time away from home.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:41 am
sometimes it’s fun to screw with trolls like rusty corrupt nonuts (or however he spells it). So rusty, I’ve given up 26 years of my life to the government (so far), travelled to some really shitty places, brought back some nice souvineers (try malaria sometimes, it’s a fuckng riot. By the time I finally retire (next 5 years probably) my “lifetime” pension and healthcare will probably be less than the 30 years of service I gave. And since I’ll more than likely die as a result of something I picked up in those 30 years of servive (like spending 3 years on a ship built when asbestos was still widely used) don’t you think, rusty, that maybe there’s a slight possibilty that my deferred compensation and subsidized health care might actually have been EARNED? unlike all the freeloading asshats on Medi-caid and Medi-Care who are ENTITLED simply due to the fact that they live in the US? In conclusion rusty corrupt nonuts, you and your ilk can simply say “Thank you for your service” and then go pound sand.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:46 am
Yep, go pound sand, Prima Donna. You aren’t the only person in the world who’s had to work in the rain. Get over it. And Medicare and Medicaid aren’t exactly lifetime retirement packages, I don’t know why you like to begrudge impoverished people funding for routine medical care when you’re living an entire life of complete economic stability on the government dole.
And it’s not really “selfless” service if you’re only doing it because you know you’ll be able to retire earlier than your cohort with much better bennies, now is it.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:56 am
>Should we start an entitlement program for truckers? How about oil workers? There are a lot of people that keep this machine running, bub. It’s not just the poor supply officer that has to deploy occasionally.
I am not your son or your bub. We aren’t talking about starting new entitlements. We are talking about cutting a contractual obligation that the government agreed to AFTER one side kept their commitment-Basic contract law 101 Bub!
November 18th, 2011 at 2:00 am
>You aren’t the only person in the world who’s had to work in the rain. I don’t know why you like to begrudge impoverished people funding for routine medical care when you’re living an entire life of complete economic stability on the government dole.
Thanks for that.. I now know that you aren’t worth my time. Military Veterans are on the dole…OMFG
November 18th, 2011 at 2:01 am
Right, and I’m saying that is an excessive entitlement which we can’t afford to do that anymore… bub. It’s Socialism. End it. Nothing on your contract stated that you are entitled to a retirement package. End the program, now. Welfare for camouflaged warehouse workers is ridiculous.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:04 am
Don’t let the hero worship in our country go to your head. Is it fair to you that most of the people who spent years of fighting in real wars, with high casualty rates, got virtually nothing for their actions, but a bunch of POGs who just flew a desk through Afghanistan for a couple of tours get a lifetime of paychecks so long as they fly that desk for a full thirty?
Is that reasonable to you? Ridiculous. Spoiled.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:17 am
I wonder if since they are talking about taking away all these other benefits I wonder if they will start paying overtime, giving comp time, guaranteed holidays, etc… Like all the other benefits that government employees get. Let’s see in basic training alone roughly 168 per week anything over 40 is overtime so 128 overtime. Keeping math simple E-1fuzzy getting paid $8/hour $240+ overtime $792 about 1030/week. Hmmm I think Joe is working out a little ahead there…
November 18th, 2011 at 2:47 am
All trolling aside, anyone gonna take the chip off this guy’s shoulder or what?
November 18th, 2011 at 5:02 am
You’re salaried. Like most salaried employees you don’t get overtime. Overtime is for waged workers. You have guaranteed and *paid* holidays, you just might have to stand watch for one or two of them, but most likely that will be covered by some E1-E5, and O1-O2 that decided to stick around. You also get a full month of leave every year. Four and a half weeks of paid vacation in addition to paid holidays, every year. You also have quarters and food provided, or you’re paid handsomely to find it for yourself.
But dear lord, have you pay an extra $50 a month for TriCare coverage, the most cush health insurance plan in the country? Heavens to Betsy.
November 18th, 2011 at 5:34 am
Well Rueta I’m glad you bring up some points.
1). no overtime. So a dickhead BC can pack you up and go to the field for a month and you can’t do shit about it
2). Holidays? You are kidding right? What holiday are you referring to? Of the 6 Christmas’ I had in the Army I spent one, count it ONE with my folks.
3). that leave. . . they have to approve it. And sometimes they’ll tell you to take leave at a point when literally none of your family can get off so you end up spending that leave playing with yourself
4). quarters. . . oh boy. Let me tell you about the B’s You like waking up at 0200 because some dickhead that got drunk for the first time? Nope me neither. There’s also that jackass form Jersey that HAS to blast his stereo. and lets not even get into the mold, and the fact that at any point the CQ can just walk in and “inspect” your room. REALLY kills the mood. TRUST ME ON THAT.
5). Food. . . I suppose you could call it that. I had a constant case of ass chafing because all army chow gave me either brick hard shits, or I’m pissin out my ass. Homeless shelters get better food.
6). Cush health insurance. . . have you ever USED tricare? They seem to try as hard as they can to find the most incompetent doctors they can, and GOD HELP YOU if you need a specialist. You better be able to prove you’re dying. I know one soldier that had Colo/rectal cancer that went into the final phase while waiting for a specialist. Trust me Tricare is not cush at all.
Sorry bud, you know not where of you speak.
November 18th, 2011 at 5:55 am
#12 I guess no one caught the original (1962) Manchurian Candidate line: John McCain as Raymond Shaw.
November 18th, 2011 at 7:13 am
3). that leave. . . they have to approve it. And sometimes they’ll tell you to take leave at a point when literally none of your family can get off so you end up spending that leave playing with yourself
Oh, and don’t forget when you take that leave you have to include Saturday and Sunday. Weekends are not free.
November 18th, 2011 at 8:01 am
A lot of whining about back in the day, by an all volunteer force. Fromage enroute.
November 18th, 2011 at 8:08 am
When something arrives here with the tag of Moron Provocoteur spelled backwards and divided into three names, you got to figure that something is a tad out of kilter. The thing was here to distribute inane and nonsensical statements (as morons do) and to instigate trouble (as provocoteurs do). You may as well argue with a sign that pisses rationa people off. Just like Rueta Covorp Norom, he sign cannot think or reason or learn and its purpose is just to piss people off.
November 18th, 2011 at 8:18 am
Moron is an apt name for this troll.
Obviously this is one of the new trolls, since every point it brought up has been shot down in other threads for over 3 years now. Plus, it must have read that article where the writer was talking about the retirement pay being such a sweet deal, knowing not that everyone that retires usually has to go to work in the private sector due to the plush retirement pay.
One thing I didn’t see the little darling mention was police and firefighters that get to retire after 20 years on the job with a compensation package that would make a military retiree blush. Should those be taken away, also? Even if it was in their contract, municipalities can’t afford those anymore, same with teachers, etc.
By the way our newest little troll talks, they haven’t spent any time in uniform. Or, they are just a turd that got chaptered out and hates the military because they couldn’t hang.
November 18th, 2011 at 8:29 am
Yep, Old Trooper, I pegged it for a disgruntled, drummed-out turd who despises what we used to call lifers. Did it think that it was being clever with the ‘stupid former military types’ in using that tag? Truly, it is a moron. At least it didn’t falsely advertise.
November 18th, 2011 at 8:35 am
Like most salaried employees you don’t get overtime. Overtime is for waged workers.
And as an E-6 on a boat, even when you threw in my submarine pay, nuke pay, and sea pay, many months I was making LESS than minimum wage. Believe me, you wouldn’t want to be a taxpayer forking over for 100-120 hour weeks at my current pay and OT rules. Hint: it would be somewhere north of $300K a year at that rate. Most I ever made when I was in the Navy was about $35K–including the SRB installment which virtually nobody outside nukes or SEALS gets anymore.
You have guaranteed and *paid* holidays, you just might have to stand watch for one or two of them, but most likely that will be covered by some E1-E5, and O1-O2 that decided to stick around.
Negative, shitstick. Duty is duty. If it’s your turn you stand it. And believe me, duty on a boat is a 24-hour affair. Maintenance, watches, training. Doesn’t matter what the calendar says. And it was a rare situation indeed when I was more than 3-section (duty every third day.)
You also get a full month of leave every year. Four and a half weeks of paid vacation in addition to paid holidays, every year.
See comments above. Case in point: I’m taking off work between Christmas and New Year’s this year. Last day of work is 23 December and returning on 3 January. At my current job, that’s four days of vacation I have to burn–actually only three, since I worked Veteran’s Day and deferred the holiday. Were I in the military, IF I could get leave approved, I’d have to use 11 days (oh, and notice that two of those days are holidays.)
You also have quarters and food provided, or you’re paid handsomely to find it for yourself.
Haven’t lived on the hilltop barracks at Pearl, have ya? Four to a room in buildings that were supposed to have been torn down in the 1970′s. And don’t get me started on food–ever eaten spaghetti with corned beef hash “sauce”? Ever run out of food on a patrol? Nevermind the great delicacies served such as “cat turds”, “baboon’s ass”, “elephant scabs”, and “horsecock sandwiches.” And they say submarine food is miles above that elsewhere in the service. Ya, right.
TriCare coverage, the most cush health insurance plan in the country?
Haven’t dealt with VA bureaucracy much, have ya scooter? That’s for those who qualified for it. What about those who simply did a few extra years but 1–didn’t get wounded in combat, 2–didn’t retire? Oh, and guess how much of VA caseload is based on Iraq/Afghanistan vets? Around FIVE PERCENT. Much of the increase in caseload and cost is from WWII/Korea vets now in their 80′s and 90′s, as well as Vietnam veterans who are now mostly in their 60′s or 70′s.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:00 am
@35 and 36: What I didn’t mention, either, is that when I go to the VA, they have my private insurance information on file as well, because they actually pass on at least half of the costs incurred by the VA to my private insurance. The only benefit I get is if I’m laid off, then the VA picks up medical costs, but it is limited, so I don’t get all medical procedures without review and approval at that time. If I were at the 70% mark, that would be different, but I’m not, so I take what they allow me to have.
Plus, I still don’t get where this troll thinks it is an entitlement; it’s earned, so therefore, not an entitlement. Entitlement is medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:07 am
@37. The troll doesn’t think and is undeserving of a reasoned response. One unintended consequence of his dropping in here, though, is that he has prompted some of us to clarify our thinking regarding the nature of military retirement benefits and that is a good thing in my book.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:11 am
For the record, Rueta Covorp Norom has used about eight different names while posting to this blog including the more famous pointOhtree and Probablynot.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:12 am
>Plus, I still don’t get where this troll thinks it is an entitlement; it’s earned, so therefore, not an entitlement. Entitlement is medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc.
When they said that Veterans benefits was akin to being on “government dole” and that other people had “worked in the rain too;” I came to the same conclusion you did OT… That this person either had never served or was chaptered out because they hated the military.
Frick I live around Fort Campbell and there are limited doctors that will take Tricare. They reimburse on the medicare fee schedule which is hardly anything. Doctors just don’t want to deal with it.
Trying getting a surgery that Tricare doesn’t think is necessary. My friend had pins in her hip and needed another surgery to remove the pins and then put them back in- because the pins were pressing on nerves. Tricare wouldn’t pay for the surgery, because it was a “repeat” procedure.. Don’t let me even tell you how frustrating it is to deal with their appeals process, and being a government entity -you can’t actually talk to anyone in the appeals process.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:24 am
Melle. Can you tell me whether Sabre Heliport is still in the far-off corner of Campbell? When I was there–so long ago–it was on a game reserve where bison roamed amid the bunkers and crazed wild turkeys chased vehicles. The heliport was a fly-infested field and the pads were nothing more than interlocking panels.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:26 am
@39. Well, that, ‘splains that, Lucy!
November 18th, 2011 at 9:34 am
Ok, I have done a little digging, because as 2-17 AirCav has said, the troll has brought out a great discussion. Here is what I found about how many military retirees there are:
As of 2010 there are 525,494 officer and 1,391,748 enlisted retirees for a total of 1,917,242.
That goes all the way back to those from those still alive from WWII to 2010.
Here is what I found out about congressional retirees:
There are 413 retired congresscritters (both house and senate). Here is what I found out about their retirement:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30631.pdf
From wiki:
Congressional pension is a pension made available to members of the United States Congress. Members who participated in the congressional pension system are vested after five (5) years of service. A full pension is available to Members 62 years of age with 5 years of service; 50 years or older with 20 years of service; or 25 years of service at any age. A reduced pension is available depending upon which of several different age/service options is chosen. If Members leave Congress before reaching retirement age, they may leave their contributions behind and receive a deferred pension later.[1] The current pension program, effective January 1987, is under the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), which covers members and other federal employees whose federal employment began in 1984 or later. This replaces the older Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) for most members of congress and federal employees.
Pension amount
The pension amount is determined by a formula that takes into account the years served and the average pay for the top three years in terms of payment. In 2002, the average pension payment ranged from $41,000 to $55,000. For example, a member of Congress who worked for 22 years and had a top three-year average salary of $153,900 would be eligible for a pension payment of $84,645 per year.[3] (A sitting Congressman with 22 years service in 2011 entered Congress in 1989. As such they are under the FERS retirement program. While the high three concept is correct the totals are wrong. Such a Congressman receives their High 3 (153900) times 1.7%, Times years of service (up to 20) then 1% after that.. That is $153,900x.017×20 = $2,613.30 x 20 = $52,326 plus $3,078. for a total of $55,440 Plus a reduced SS pension.) ( Member of Congress or Congressional Employee (or any combination of the two) Must have at least 5 years of service as Member and/or Congressional Employee 1.7% of your high-3 average salary multiplied by your years of service as a Member of Congress or Congressional Employee which do not exceed 20, plus 1% of your high-3 average salary multiplied by your years of other service){http://www.opm.gov/retire/pre/fers/computation.asp}[4]
[edit] Controversy
In 2003, after James Traficant was expelled from Congress, several Congressmen tried passing a bill that would prevent expelled members from receiving their pensions. The bill was stalled and eventually dropped after being sent to the House Administration and Reforms committee for review.[5]
Long time congressman Ron Paul has always refused to participate in the congressional pension system, labeling it “immoral”.[6] North Carolina congressman Howard Coble does not participate in the pension system, either. [7] He campaigned against the system in his first campaign in 1984.[7]
November 18th, 2011 at 9:41 am
The Infidel Mataween: My body is twenty years older than me. My parents have all of the maladies that I’ve got, but I got them twenty years sooner.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:49 am
For the record, Rueta Covorp Norom has used about eight different names while posting to this blog including the more famous pointOhtree and Probablynot.
Oh, really? IIRC, the little fuckwad in his pointOhThree incarnation claimed he was a combat vet…
November 18th, 2011 at 10:01 am
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=27163&cpage=1#comment-559064
In case anyone was curious as to the exact wording of trollboys “claim”, be it Sam, point, or whatever nom de plume he chooses to use from his mother’s basement in San Luis Obispo.
So how’s the weather on the Central Coast, douchebag? The Madonna Inn still as gaudy as ever, or are you posting from class at Cal Poly while the profs tell you how sucky America is while they draw well into six-figure taxpayer paychecks?
November 18th, 2011 at 10:06 am
@45- marine, I believe. One of the olsen threads’ comment section. He’s quite the troll; like an “intellectual” college boy version of king. Instead of rucking more miles than anyone ever has in the history of rucking, this guy is just plain smarter than anyone who has ever served, and does not hesitate to tell all of us just how misinformed we are about anything. If they turn out to be the same person, that would be something.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:06 am
@41. I want my post to stay alive for Melle. If anyone is wondering about the bunker reference, Sabre Heliport was once a Marine-guarded weapons storage facility. The place had triple fencing and word was that in the 50′s or so the bunkers held nuclear goodies. Campbell was also a German POW camp and recall walking down some RR tracks and coming upon marked German graves. The graves stopped me cold and I remember wondering what had taken their lives and why the POWs were never returned to their homeland.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:23 am
>Can you tell me whether Sabre Heliport is still in the far-off corner of Campbell
According to hubby–it is, but it isn’t a small fly-infested heliport anymore.. It is actually quite large now.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:25 am
@Air cav…. Sorry update: He said there is a brigade worth of aircraft there now.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:25 am
@48: There were other German-Americans held there as well, in internment camps (they were Bund Party members that were loyal to Germany and the Nazi party and there were internment camps for them and Italian Fascist sympathizers all over the South). I don’t know why they weren’t repatriated back to Germany.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:35 am
@49-51. Thank you. I appreciate it.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Well I’m not sure about the time frame in which the germans died but if it was after the Malmedy massacre I’m sure they weren’t too worried about it and maybe could have been a small middle finger to the germans. Who knows? I’m at Campbell right now and I’m pretty sure we have more aviation assets here than any other post in the army. 2 full aviation brigades plus the 160th. There are always tons of birds in the air at any given time.
November 18th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Moron…so, tell us about your military service.
Did you man up and serve…or not?
If you never served, then shut your cock holster, boy.
And if you did, thank you for your service…and you can still shut your cock holster.
November 18th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
#39, a troll posting under numerous names? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you!!!! That cannot be, those more enlightened than the knuckle draggers who post here can’t be duplicitous, by definition. They are the ones they’ve been waiting for. Just ask Joey.
Or, is it more likely that .03 lied, much like his Moron alter-ego?
November 18th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
@53. We–the 2/17–were in our own corner of the Campbell world. Cobras, Loaches, and the queen herself–the Huey. Good luck to you Rak187.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Ahem, gentlemen, you still haven’t defended your lavish “Pensions for POGs” program. Congratulations on being able to use a GeoIP locator, though, and yes this place is speeeec-tacular.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
So in other words, fuckstick, no, you never served.
Got it. And SLO ain’t all that, homeslice. It’s a so-so college town with a bunch of old money in it. Trust me, BTDT, got the t-shirt.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
It’s interesting that if you don’t have a good answer to something, you resort to attempts at intimidation and rage to try to get around it.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Hey asshole. You. Moron. No one has to explain, justify, or defend anything to you, you dried hunk of vomit.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Woah, hey now, “dried hunk of vomit”? Them’s playground fightin’ words.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Yeah, you like the playground where you can watch the little kids and play with yourself, you shit.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
…who would even think of responding like that?
November 18th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Do you have a reply for comment number 36 Rueta?
November 18th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Yeah, I think he has valid points that there are exceptions to the general rule that people in the military are economically very well cared for, but I don’t think those exceptions are powerful enough to override the general point of my troll premise.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
@63. Me, you puke because pedophiles are the most loathesome creatures on the planet and when I think loathesome, I think pedophile and when I read your crap I think “Now, there’s a loathesome piece of shit.” You probably didn’t get that the first time around, moron, so re-read it slowly.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
I don’t get it, are you accusing me of being a pedophile now?
November 18th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Is this POS insipid too?
November 18th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Do I taste bland to you?
November 18th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Insipid or not, it’s certainly a faggot.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Could you tell that by the taste?
November 18th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Bingo.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Somebody else can deal with the penis vaccuum. I’m done with it.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
Alright, fun is fun. Here’s the point: As the first person who could read my name backward realized, yes I’m trolling. Your values here are so incredibly lop-sided one can’t help but notice how furiously you screech against public-sector employee unions, and any sort of entitlements (usually no matter how small) for the rest of society. It’s starting to get embarrassing to other vets.
Not just TAH, but the entire so-called “milblog” community, where on any given day you can find outrage over the rest of our society getting virtually anything back from its tax dollars other than DoD contracts, from veterans that are ironically opposed to any cuts in their own lavish benefits packages, or even demanding even more benefits.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Has anyone noticed that whenever Barry goes out in public and steps on his dick, or his poll numbers go lower in the toilet, places like TAH, among many others gets over-run by trolls?
Guess those denizens of the 51% who pay no taxes aren’t getting enough of “their” tax dollars back, right, .03, or whatever name you go by this hour?
“It’s starting to get embarrassing to other vets.”. And, you’d know that how?
November 18th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
They pay taxes, but despite the fact that we live in a very wealthy country in terms of simply dividing GDP by population, 51% of the country (by your calculation) doesn’t even make enough money to pay very much income tax (they still pay the myriad of other taxes).
The point that a lot of people are trying to make, and the main thrust of movements like OWS, is that wealth inequality (low wages despite high corporate earnings) is sinking liquidity. No money is moving because it is stagnating in isolated wealth pools of the “1%”, people who have the power to control wages. It’s a problem.
And the reason it’s embarrassing is because you as military retirees are not prone to the same hazards that the society that works to fund you are prone to. It reflects on all veterans when you have such utter disregard and animus for the well-being of the machinery that makes your well-compensated career possible.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
“And the reason it’s embarrassing is because you as military retirees are not prone to the same hazards that the society that works to fund you are prone to.”
And what hazards are those? I don’t think anyone would bitch if the cuts to military retirees were being mirrored by the other social programs like medicare, social security, welfare, etc., but they’re not. Plus, if you are a student of historical documents, you may have noticed that the military is one of the few enumerated powers of the federal government in the Constitution.
Since you keep harping about the 1%; can you tell me how much of the overall tax bill they pay? How about the top 10%? If you want to look at inequality, look at the tax code.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
It is incapable of rational thought.
What was the topic again?
November 18th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
Lets talk about the government shut down were active duty Service Members had to come to work when they were not getting paid and had to deal with only getting half of their pay check?
November 18th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Yeah, I think he has valid points that there are exceptions to the general rule that people in the military are economically very well cared for, but I don’t think those exceptions are powerful enough to override the general point of my troll premise.
Tell that to the public union retirees who make six-figures in RETIREMENT PAY. Had I stayed in for 20, and assuming I made CPO, I’d be pulling in about $1800 per month, before taxes. Tell me, would you rather be one of those guys who gets a job in a school system, or as a fireman or cop and make AT LEAST 4-5 TIMES that?
And you have the audacity to claim WE’RE the ones overcompensated for our service? Tell me, when’s the last time a public school teacher had to hump a 100-lb ruck over a few dozen miles? When’s the last time a cop stayed on station for 2 1/2 MONTHS at a time? (Oh, and for the record, yeah, I know how to fight fires too–even got to fight a few real ones, thanks for asking.)
51% of the country (by your calculation) doesn’t even make enough money to pay very much income tax
You once again show your woeful ignorance of history. Go back even just 20-25 years and look up the tax rates back then. In that era, virtually EVERYONE paid into the system. Only when your boy Billy Jeff came up with the EIC did the moocher class really come into play.
the main thrust of movements like OWS,
Well fuck me with a pineapple, why didn’t they just say so, instead of raping, overdosing, and coming down with scabies, lice, and drug-resistant TB? So was it the 1 percent that these “protestors” were keeping from going to work/school yesterday? Hmmmm?
military retirees are not prone to the same hazards that the society that works to fund you
Go suck start a fucking shotgun, boy. Show me a veteran who retires after 20 who doesn’t go to work when they leave the service, and I’ll show you a guy who lives in a tin hut and eats cat food. Military retirement is a pittance compared to what civil servants receive for comprable time. You don’t even want to get into the wear and tear on the body that 20 years in even a so-called “cush” field has on a body. It was rare for me to run into someone out of the goat locker who didn’t look at least 15-20 years older than their driver’s license said they were. I only did 12 years, and I had medical problems in my 30′s (no prior family history) that don’t typically show up in people until their 50′s and 60′s.
Disregard for the well-being of the machinery? Really? How about when we point out it’s FUCKING BROKEN? And well-compensated?
Stop. Hurt. Sides. Laughing. I tripled my income/compensation the day I got out.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
>don’t think anyone would bitch if the cuts to military retirees were being mirrored by the other social programs like medicare, social security, welfare, etc., but they’re not.
BINGO! They are singling out Veterans only… When they cut the DOE like they are cutting military obligation; call me.
>It’s interesting that if you don’t have a good answer to something, you resort to attempts at intimidation and rage to try to get around it..>
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer. –Bruce Lee
November 18th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
Old Trooper, as a retiree (if you are one) you will never go without. You will get a paycheck every month for the rest of your life, you will have healthcare at an extremely affordable rate regardless of what happens to you. Virtually nobody else in society has that. And yet you are begrudging the fact that programs that provide minimal services to just keep people alive exist for people, most of whom have worked their whole lives. I think if you see all these people as lazy couch potatoes just mooching off the system that reflects the very insulated and protected life you have lived.
And I’m not actually against military retirement benefits. I just think it’s ridiculous that you defend with vigor your right to collect vastly superior retirement packages as a veteran, but you’ll begrudge public sector employees, or people protesting in the streets for better pay and more reasonable financial regulation to prevent such wealth inequality.
The problem with your question is that you’re going to tell me that the “1% pays 30 to 50% (depending on what stats you pick) of the tax burden”. While true, if you delve deeper into the numbers you’ll find that the 1% carrying such a large tax burden of the over all national tax load, it’s still roughly about 15 to 20% of their earnings. The often cited statement is that per-dollar they make, the 1% pays a lower tax rate than their secretaries.
But even still, this misses the point. I don’t care how much they’re paying in taxes, the problem is wage depression and lack of hiring. Sending money to the government in the form of taxes might provide the services needed by people out of work or out of luck, but it won’t really hire them unless you want to have a centralized economy that funds everything in terms of a perpetual stimulus project.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
NHSparky, calm down and read rationally.
For example, yeah 20 to 25 years ago the level of wealth inequality wasn’t as much of a problem, so people *could* pay in to the system. Now wages are so depressed that more and more people *can’t* pay into the system.
Your tax policy sounds like setting up a cargo cult around bygone eras to try to rekindle their spirit, not addressing the identifiable issue causing brokeness: wealth inequality.
Paying taxes isn’t like titheing. You’re not going to magically find more money in your pocket through some convoluted spiritual means just because more people pay taxes.
And didn’t the Republicans run on this platform that Barack Obama was going to raise taxes on poor people? And now they’re talking about “widening the base”… Hmm….. Hmmmmmmmmm….
November 18th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
>You will get a paycheck every month for the rest of your life, you will have healthcare at an extremely affordable rate regardless of what happens to you
Ding Ding Dong–Try again.. Please see teacher’s retirement, police officer’s retirement, fireman etc. There are a lot in the system who retain bennies BETTER than what Veterans get..
The top ten teachers in Illinois will make over $200,000 a year for their pensions.
http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Illinois_public_pensions
November 18th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Yeah, here’s a little article on the “main thrust” of the Occutards. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/17/ows-protesters-chant-follow-those-kids-as-small-children-try-to-go-to-school-on-wall-street/
You try to legitimize a “movement” that has at it’s core the goal of denying others the ability to earn a wage and educate their children.
Oh, and Sparky, my pension from the PD is not quite double your $1800/month. Not a complaint, it’s still more than Social Security would have been for a similar work history. Just saying, don’t assume that retirees from a PD/FD in flyover country get what they get on the left coast or the liberal east coast.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
I’m pretty sure my pension will be just enough to pay my mortgage. How again is that overcompensation? Even with TSP and roth IRA that’s not going to cut it for sustainability. Definetly not gonna stop working just because I have a military pension. The “thrust” of OWS seems to be spoiled rotten little punks that feel they don’t need to work their way up the ladder and deserve to enter through the roof just because they have a piece of paper with the D word on it. and if their message is different, they’re sure doing a shitty job (pun intended) of getting it out there. Their sense of entitlement is failing them. It just doesn’t work like that.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
But you are ignoring what retirees from the military have to do to reach that twenty year mark. If you think it is such a cake walk why not enlist and do tweanty and see if you still have the same view.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
And lest you think that it is just Illinois- here is New Hampshire..
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/northeast/view/20111108agency_releases_nhs_top_500_pension_recipients/srvc=home&position=recent
November 18th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
melle1228, ten teachers will make over $200,000/year in pensions. Ten. Out of the thousands of teachers in Illinois. What is the total pension cost of an O-10 at retirement? But I guess I could spin that as just a “soldier’s” retirement pay, right? Instead of specifying exactly what rank they held.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
And more info on how military retirees aren’t rare… In fact, based on the numbers military Vets get shafted.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.the912patriots.com/10_Amazing_Facts_About_Illinois_State_Pensions.html
November 18th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Sporkmaster, I’ve been in the military and out of the military. Trust me, life was much more cush inside the military as far as income security. And I was in the part that actually gets wet.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
So you are suggesting heavier taxes on the 1%…on corporate America?
Just how will that create jobs?
As for your point that “…per-dollar they make, the 1% pays a lower tax rate than their secretaries…”; when secretaries begin to have the capital to build businesses of any size, hire train and maintain a work force AND comply with the burden of local, state and federal regulations…then and only then will I begin to be concerned about that supposed discrepancy.
Private sector investment and success create jobs that bring about viable, healthy economies, communities and nations…the .gov or the .mil have roles, but are not the main engine for economic success.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Redacted1775, your pension is enough to pay for a mortgage?! Jesus, I bet a lot of people would like to have that.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
>Ten. Out of the thousands of teachers in Illinois.
Good try, but if you look at my last link you will see that just in Illinois alone:
“Based upon current rules more than 25,000 public employees will have $100K plus pensions by 2020.”
November 18th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Proof of service?
November 18th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Virtually nobody else in society has that.
Bullshit. It’s called Medicare. And for the record, if I were over 65, I’d have an easier time finding a PCP who accepts Medicare over Tricare.
Social security, should it still be around when I turn 65, will pay more than 50 percent more than what I would have received in retirement pay had I stayed in for 20-plus years.
I see people drawing SS disability for shit like your neighbor in California. You remember him–the fat fuck who sits around his house all day, shitting in an adult diaper becase he wants to play baby?
Vastly superior? Try what members of Congress get. Try what civil servants get–AND THEY OFTEN PAY NOTHING for their care, no copayments, no deductibles.
And the top 1 percent pulls in 18-20 percent of the income (depending on year) and pays 37-40 percent of the taxes. That’s the IRS’s data, not mine. Now 25 years ago, they had 15 percent of the income, but paid only 25 percent of the taxes.
That’s right, big boy–they pay MORE now relative to what they did when Reagan was president.
Compare that to the bottom 50 percent. Then as now, the bottom 50 percent pull in about 15 percent of income, but in 1986, they paid 7 percent of taxes. Today? Barely 2 percent. And we’re being told that WE are supposed to give more?
Oh, and the average tax rate of the top 10 percent is over 10 TIMES HIGHER than those in the bottom 50 percent.
Hey, shitbrick–I pay OVER 40 percent of my income in taxes before I ever see a dime. 25 percent federal taxes, 15.3 percent in Social Security (with my employer’s match) and throw state taxes, etc., on top of that. Yet I STILL see people quitting jobs because they’ve gamed the system to the point that they know what income levels they have to stay under to get free medical, food stamps, EIC, etc., etc., etc.
Don’t fucking tell me about cush, you slimy little fuck.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Alot of people do, and alot don’t seem to realize something like that is EARNED.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Spigot, I think the critical part that you are missing there isn’t that corporations are low on cash for investing, it’s that they aren’t investing. It’s not because they’re evil, it’s because all other things being equal it’s smart to not invest your money until you’re sure which direction the market is going.
The problem is that that behavior that is good for an individual company is bad for the overall economy. At that point it is the government’s job to prevent a depression by preventing them from simply pooling more money that should be going into the rest of the economy. They can do this by incentivizing hiring, or taxing the companies and creating work projects that create demand, or just by taxing them and redistributing the wealth in the form of entitlements to maintain basic living conditions… things like medicare, medicaid, etc.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
Redacted1775, a lot of people work in this society. The problem that is being driven home is that due to wealth inequality, a lot of people aren’t getting out of the system what they put into it.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
NHSparky, I think you are completely divorced from reality if you believe that even a large portion of people who live on food stamps, SS, and medicaid are there because they want to be.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Seems to me most of the OWS crowd want it handed to them.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Sporkmaster, I served, I spent time under a ruck for a large portion of that service, and it’s irrelevant to economic discussion.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Moron, you said, “51% of the country (by your calculation) doesn’t even make enough money to pay very much income tax”. Nope, not by my calculation, at all. This is from the IRS, posted on a truckers info site. Check who pays what. http://warontruckers.com/index.php/taxation/30-irs-released-data-showing-percentages-of-income-tax-paid-by-americans
If you want to try and refute something, try to research it, don’t just pull it out of your ass.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:54 pm
Redacted1775, some do. OWS is really diverse as far as interests, and a lot of the typical crowd are out there. But I think you get a lot of your news through the TAH information filter. There are a lot of people who are respectable that just want change. The public face of OWS shouldn’t be criteria by which you judge our conversation right now. I’ve not been to an occupy protest, although I do support the general notion that there is a problem with wealth inequality.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
LOL, Oh, well then UpNorth, on a truckers’ info site… wow. Hmm. Pretty high brow source there. Did you get any gee-whiz financial advice in your inbox titled “Fwd:fwd:FW:FWD: OBAMA IMPLODING ECONOMY, BUY GOLD FROM GOLDLINE!” recently?
November 18th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
>I think you are completely divorced from reality if you believe that even a large portion of people who live on food stamps, SS, and medicaid are there because they want to be.
No, they are there for choices they made. My cousin, the Twit for example has three children by three different fathers. She didn’t marry any of the men, because apparently they weren’t marriage material. And in the end they weren’t even father material.. You know who their daddy is? The state!
Ya know just like your reiderated last night that Vets made the choice to serve. Many people are impoverished because they made bad choices.
November 18th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
melle1228, and therefore we should remove the ability for those children to eat and get broken bones set… why?
November 18th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
>melle1228, and therefore we should remove the ability for those children to eat and get broken bones set… why?
How about we hold people accountable for their actions? If you get a degree in horticulture–Don’t cry because you can’t find a job and pay your loans back.
Kids survived before medicaid and welfare. Largely because there was a sense of shame to take from others what you didn’t earn, so people found a way to earn.
November 18th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
“LOL, Oh, well then UpNorth, on a truckers’ info site”. OK, smartass, if you can’t read the identifier as to where the info came from, try this one. I realize it’ll require effort on your part, and if I could, I’d drop on by and point out at the bottom of each chart where the info comes from, wouldn’t want you to tax that over-extended cell between your ears.
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
Careful now, it covers more than two years. Pay attention, if you could, to the figures for the bottom 50% in each chart.
November 18th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Horticulture is actually a pretty lucrative degree field. All ag-related degrees are right now. Lot of people to feed.
And I think your notion that children “survived” prior to having a right to medical care is a little silly. I don’t see what shame has to do with whether or not a kid who gets juvenile diabetes because of the poor choices of their parents, nor how it will help them overcome that.
UpNorth, stay on topic about wealth inequality. I don’t really care what percentage the tax code requires of rich people if in the end the rest of the country is still being denied a respectable wage based on the work they put in to helping those people get rich.
November 18th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
“….I don’t see anyone threatening those agencies”. Hyper-conservative religious wing-nut Rick Perry threatens those agencies all the time…..when he can remember their names.
November 18th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Moron, stay on topic, your quote was “51% of the country (by your calculation) doesn’t even make enough money to pay very much income tax”. Yet again, you don’t know what you’re talking about, and can’t stay on topic. So, you come up with “wealth inequality”. Sorry, but equality of outcome has been tried in schools nationwide, it doesn’t work. It won’t work in your socialist utopia either.
By the way, no one is denied “medical care”, but I’m certainly not surprised you don’t know that.
November 18th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
You’re still ignorant of basic concepts. The concern over wealth inequality has nothing to do with socialism or guaranteeing “equal outcomes”. It has to do with market forces driving wages down, while corporate profits are going up resulting in capital stagnation. That’s what companies do to be competitive: Charge as much as they can for a product or service while at the same time paying as little as possible to produce it.
“Socialism” isn’t necessarily the answer to that, there are a lot of other tools on the table, but I’m sure the dichotomy of “socialism vs. capitalism” is the only conceptual framework you have of the issue if you weren’t even familiar with the phrase “wealth inequality”.
And I know nobody is denied medical care, I’m saying that’s how it is and how it should be. FFS you suck at reading.
November 18th, 2011 at 5:17 pm
And you suck at making any kind of point. You’re all over the map with your talking points, but that’s OK, it’s what we expect from someone who can’t remember his s/n from day to day.
And, funny, I’ve gotten 3 raises since I started at my last place of employment. Yeah, that’s driving down wages, all right.
But the following is a gem, “taxing the companies and creating work projects that create demand, or just by taxing them and redistributing the wealth in the form of entitlements to maintain basic living conditions…”. Is that “from each according to his means, to each according to his needs”? Seriously, do you want a 5 year plan, comrade, or a 7 year plan? And, isn’t that what the government does now? It’s worked out so well, so far, right? Or is it that “the right people” weren’t in charge?
November 18th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@114- aw, come on. Stalinism and maoism and castroism and pol potism weren’t communism. We need to give it an honest go. It will be different this time, and if you don’t believe me, then I have a nice twelve year instructional school located in death valley that you can attend, in order to teach you the finer points of what it means to be a citizen. You’ll even learn valuable trade skills, like digging holes, building camps, and making roads!
November 18th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
I think I severely over-estimated either your intelligence, or your ability to deal with new information that you find arbitrarily threatening.
Calm down, re-read. You’ll learn more.
November 18th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
So, Moron .03, is your point that “from each according to his means, to each according to his needs” isn’t what you’re going for? We’re still waiting for your “clarification” on that.
And, yeah, Teddy, I know I’ll be on the first train going west, but I know that Moron .03 will give me a sip of water out of his canteen.