Hijabs in JROTC uniforms

| December 27, 2011 | 29 Comments

About a hundred of you guys sent me links to various articles about the Junior ROTC allowing their cadets to wear their hijabs in uniform – completely disregarding the meaning of the term “uniform”;

“We welcome the fact that Muslim and Sikh students nationwide will now be able to participate fully in JROTC leadership activities while maintaining their religious beliefs and practices,” CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad told the Orlando Sentinel.

“I was like, you’ve got to be kidding me. I wanted to just break down crying right there,” Zawity told Nashville’s WTVF-TV at the time. “They‘re telling me I’m not allowed to march in the parade just because of a piece of cloth wrapped around my head. And to me it‘s not like it’s just a piece of cloth, to me, it’s like my symbol.”

Well, you always have the choice to walk away from the JROTC program, ya know. Persoanlly, I think more women shoudl wear hijabs…I think they’re HAWT! Hijabs turn me right the hell on. Whenever I see a woman in a hijab, I just can’t take my eyes off of her and I fantasized how I can pleasure her. So more of you should be wearing them, just to please me. In fact, the Army should design a hijab for all women soldiers regardless of their religion so we can get back to the meaning of “uniform”.

In fact, while we’re at it, we should adopt the culture completely – women should be in the back of parade formations, behind the men, where they belong. And they should run PT in their hijabs…all of the women, regardless of their religious persuasion. Let’s swallow CAIR’s bullshit whole hog.

Category: Military issues

Loading Facebook Comments ...

Comments (29)

Trackback URL | Comments RSS Feed

  1. NHSparky says:

    Sorry, but why hasn’t anyone actually done something that will ensure that hijabs will NOT be worn? After 230-plus years, you’d think the various services would be well versed in the Gunny Highway school of uniform regs:

    “Are those all worn the same? Same as me? Then strip ‘em off!”

    This is one of those times where they can allow it to be worn, but the requirements to wear them can be so strict and archaic that most people will simply give it up.

  2. Raven says:

    I saw this on Drudge the other day, and was waiting for TAH to post on this to see how others would react.

    My thoughts–JROTC is little more than a club in a high school that teaches history (very lacking in HS nowadays) some military fundamentals and provides a good farm team for college ROTC, the service academies, nat’l guard (for those HS kids who are old enough to do basic as rising Seniors), and a great recruting tool for the enlisted force writ large. BUT>>>it’s just a club. The kids wear their ‘uniforms’ which are anything but uniform already–I’ve seen plenty that have piecemeal (largely donated out-of-service) uniforms and kids that look like soup sandwiches. They don’t seem to have weight/height standards, very relaxed or non-existant grooming standards, and take pretty much anyone that wants to join as an extra curricular. If they can take pimply faced 15 yr olds with Justin Bieber hair–let the girls wear their Hijabs. Same as letting the Jewish kids wear their yarmulke on the high holidays. Draw the line when it comes to the regular force, big-boy ROTC, Service Academies, etc.

    Give a little when it doesn’t matter much–in HS where they’re not in the real military, and reinforce the lines of what can and can’t be done with stupid shit in the Active, guard, reserves, etc.

    If anyone out there is a JROTC instructor, please correct my misperceptions of lack of standards already.

  3. CI says:

    I wasn’t JROTC, but a ‘big boy’ ROTC Instructor a few years back, and share your assessment of JROTC. The only time uniformity was even a remote issue, was for formal Class A inspections and their Drill Team.

    This issue doesn’t chafe me much due to what JROTC realistically is. But knowing a few Sikhs in my time…I’d like to have a lot more of them in service.

  4. NHSparky says:

    a good farm team for college ROTC, the service academies, nat’l guard (for those HS kids who are old enough to do basic as rising Seniors), and a great recruting tool for the enlisted force writ large.

    And then you immediately contradict yourself with the lack of height/weight standards and uniform issues.

    If it was such a good tool, perhaps we could actually ENFORCE those standards and get these kids ready for what really happens on AD or in the service academies, college ROTC, etc.

  5. OWB says:

    I just don’t get it! What is the point of preparing kids for a military program using standards in direct conflict with those of the military, unless it is just to get a nose under the tent flap, so to speak?

  6. Flagwaver says:

    One of my friends is an instructor of a JROTC unit here in Oregon. She told me that the exact wording of the ruling states that if a student feels compelled to wear the hijab, they are allowed to in all uniformed activities. However, if the student deems to remove the hijab while in uniform, they are no longer allowed to wear it while in uniform.

    Basically, once they take it off because summer PT is too damn hot, it is considered a piece of civilian fashion and no longer part of the uniform.

    My personal opinion is that the heads of the JROTC program are smoking crack. I was a JROTC student and my instructors were hardassed as you can get. Hell, my Drill Sergeants were nicer than Captain Warnock (our primary history instructor). Think Major Payne mixed with Gunny Highway, but put an Army uniform on her. And yes, she was a former D.S. before she went OCS.

    I remember the bullshit in the middle east when female soldiers were being ordered to wear the hijab to not offend the local Muslim population. I remember what happened to the commander that ordered that. I wonder what will happen now?

  7. Steadfast&Loyal says:

    frankly I never understood the point of JROTC.

  8. Nicki says:

    A good friend of mine is an Army Chaplain, and he posted the following on my blog yesterday after I blogged this story.

    http://thelibertyzone.wordpress.com/2011/12/26/its-called-a-uniform-for-a-reason/#comments

    “Okay, I will take issue with your position here on Constitutional and legal rounds, Nicki.

    The Federal Government cannot interfere with a person’s free exercise of religion. As a result, accommodating religious practice is a long tradition of work in the Armed forces.

    Jewish Rabbis wear the Yarmulke under their headgear. Roman Catholic service members wear scapulars under their T-shirts. Mormon service members wear their temple garments as long as they cannot be seen. Even we renegade Anglican chaplains wear Celtic crosses on our ID tags.

    The active Army made accommodation for Sikhs and Muslims years ago. They wear their headgear as long as they are inside. Under no condition are they allowed to wear it as a replacement for Army headgear. All the Army Imams I know wear the hijab when inside.

    Allowing JROTC Soldiers that are Seikhs and Muslims to wear the Hijab is to introduce consistency with DA policy about religious accommodation. As long as they aren’t given prejudicial treatment (pro or con), I’m in favor of the policy.

    BTW…one should wear their rank on their Gortex jackets and the new ACU colored coats. I will always wear a cross instead. My rank is not important to a young Soldier…that I am a chaplain and love them is!”

    Here’s the thing, though. Wearing religious symbols is allowed, as long as they’re concealed – that’s what I was told throughout my Army career. Yes, I saw a Jewish Chaplain wear a yarmulke, and I know Mormon Soldiers wear the undergarments, but they are concealed, and they don’t change the look of the uniform.

    I have a problem with anyone altering the military uniform because of their religious beliefs.

  9. BooRadley says:

    I agree that uniform should be uniform and the girl quoted contradicts herself when she says they are being stopped because of a “piece of cloth” but then says it’s a symbol. THAT’S THE POINT.

    But that said: NHSparky: it’s not a contradiction when you say there are no standards but it’s a recruiting tool. That is jut a fact. ok, obviously the husky kids aren’t getting recruited (unless they love it so much they decide to cut weight) but it is a recruiting tool for those that are qualified. Just like a whole bunch of disqualified people walk into a recruiting office everyday– the office is still a tool.
    2 of my kids were in ROTC while the attended a horrible inner city school (2 years). The program was excellent. About 2 kids a year went on to regular Army but none of them killed anyone in the meantime, EITHER. It was a club. (had they stayed 4 years my son would have picked up rank before Navy boot camp, but as is he just rounded up a dozen kids, some of whom enlisted and got his rank.)

  10. BooRadley says:

    sorry– JROTC in high school…..

  11. Old Trooper says:

    @8: Nicki; I agree. However, there is one Sikh doctor that is allowed to wear his headgear and beard in the Army and if we are going to open up that bottle and let the genie out, then we are very close to letting all do it. I remember when the Belgian Army went with the “anything goes” standard for grooming and they looked like a ragtag bunch for sure. I’m sure it didn’t affect their ability to do their job, but allowing that much individualism into the uniformed services will eventually lead to other examples of soldiers trying to “express their individuality”. IMO, that’s a recipe for disaster.

  12. Curteous Curt says:

    WUUS WUUS. According to the hostorical info that I got the primarly reason for uniforms is to aviod cases of firing on your own side. But do not expect me to provide citations for this account of history. I am not your everyday college processor.
    So I think it would be a safe bet that someone wearing a US military uniform with a sihk headdress or a Lakota headdress
    would not be mistaken for say a member of the Burmese or North Korean or German Army.
    Who do you want your children to emulate, the Hessians or the Green Mountain Boys?

  13. Curteous Curt says:

    My peeve is people who leave thier windows open in the winter time. People should be given a clear choice while indoors, fresh unheated air, or stale warm air. The choice for me is clear. Sadly around here I am a minority of one.

  14. Nicki says:

    @11 – OT, that’s exactly it. That’s why we have uniforms. And while I respect anyone’s right to worship as they see fit, do we allow Soldiers in the field to stop and whip out the prayer rug and pray to Allah 5 times per day? No. A beard will likely cause issues when wearing a protective mask. Should we toss those rules out too, because we want to protect religious expression? No.

    Fact is there are certain rights we give up while we’re in uniform. As I mentioned, we can’t engage in political activity while in uniform, we can’t participate in demonstrations while in uniform. All these are our rights, but while we’re in uniform, we temporarily cede those rights to the whole. We have to conceal crosses, Stars of David, etc. inside our shirts. Why are certain members of the military getting special dispensation?

  15. Curteous Curt says:

    Of course the US military, even in a time of war, could allow soldiers to whip out a rug and pray five times a day.
    Do you think that Muslim countries do not have Armies?
    OK their won loss record in the past few hundred years has not been to great but is that Muslims pray five time a day the reason for that or is it because their level of science fell behind that of the west? And before that when Muslims were knockng on the Gates of Vienna was their science very far behind that of the west at that time?
    Now as far as the beards go, to me any Muslim who wants to wear a beard while serving in any army betrays the fact that he (or she) is not a very good Muslim after all. Such Muslims may howl that I am not as qualified to make this ruling as their spiritual leaders but I disagree. The mere fact that they do not recognize me as their spriitual guide
    shows that they are not qualified to recognize who is and who is not spiritually mature.
    Saying that we give up certian rights while we are in uniform is a sly subtle way of changing the subject. If we give up certian rights while wearing a uniform is not relevant to what the rules of wearing that uniform should be.
    America is a land of many many traditions. For a long time
    people named Smith and Miller and West and Green decided what traditions were valuable and what traditions were not valuable.
    It looks to me like some people do not want to share their traditions.

  16. FlyingCowOfDoom says:

    It’s JROTC not JSOC. Let her wear it as long as she complies with the rest of the uniform standards. Does it really chap your ass so much that in a parade you will never see one or two people might have their heads covered?

    @14 – Except this has nothing to do with A. Real Soldiers, B. Soldiers in the Field. Also, its been shown several times that a properly trimmed beard does not fuck up the seal on a mask but that’s another argument entirely. She’s not in the real army yet and if what #8′s friend said about them removing it is true, it will separate who is devout and who is trying to be obnoxious.

    This isn’t a baseball cap or a funny looking took, it’s a religious symbol that can’t be hidden or taken off like many others can. The options at this point are; be a big asshole and force someone to go against their religious tenets or understand that you have to make some exceptions sometimes. Thankfully JROTC command doesn’t have their head too far up their ass and made a shockingly logical decision.

  17. Raven says:

    Nicki–
    W/the exception of the Sikh Doc in the Army, these kids aren’t enlisted. They’re in a club–not too unlike Boy Scouts. I’m always on the watch for good for the goose but not for the gander on religious and cultural exceptions to policy. I don’t see that here because it’s JROTC.

  18. Nicki says:

    I understand what JROTC is. I also understand these kids are not enlisted. However, it’s a military-connected organization, and to me there’s a certain amount of respect that has to be given to that uniform. The uniform has meaning. It has tradition. I don’t see why it needs to be altered to suit various religious preferences.

  19. Nicki says:

    Does it really chap your ass so much that in a parade you will never see one or two people might have their heads covered? — It chaps my ass, because the uniform is supposed to be just that – a UNIFORM.

  20. Curteous Curt says:

    “It has been shown several times that a proprly trimmed beard will not affect the seal of a mask”

    You mean that my chain of command did not know what it was talking about?

    In anycase some Muslims say that a beard can not even be trimmed. Do some Jews say that too?

    What I see here when I see that the uniform has meaning. It has tradition is that we think that we LOSE something rather than gain something when we recognize another tradition. It seems that WE, Anglo Prussian Saxons are always the ones COMPRIMISING, and those damned third wolders are not compirmising with us.
    I can understand that. We all draw lines in the sand on some issues. I myself find it quite strange that a Sihk would draw a line in the sand over his headgear. But then he has a different STARTING POINT than I do. I would be pleased if I could get a Sihk to realize that it is only a SYMBOL. But then symbols are really important to some people.
    A majority of military members support actions that make disrepecting the flag a crime. But a more mature minority in the military recognize that it is the ability to say unpopular things even inflamitory things that is far more important to protect.
    So it is not hard for me to image that what the flag represents for Americans is what his head gear represents to a Sihk. I consider that Sihk view backwards but it can certainly be tolerated. I am not being forced to wear it.
    But of course toleration has its limits. I for one would not allow freedom of speech to protect people conspiring to rob a bank over the internet or to encourage people to storm the local jail and hang all of the black prisoners, as just two possible examples.
    The Uniforms of regular army’s shirts and pants obviously can not have nonstandardized colors. They should not be used for advertising. They should not display the belly button. They should not be secually appealing. The dress uniforms should be saffron in color and be shaped like a Toga with a thick purple and thin gold strip at the bottom. Except for Warrant Officers who should have a thick green and thin yellow strip at the bottom.

  21. Old Cav Lt says:

    The absurdity of all this is simple: leadership in large part, requires setting the example. And the example here is that, for a group of nonsensical PC reasons, a policy is going to be changed that’s just the start…. kinda like DADT was Phase 2 of military homo mainstreaming.

    There is, of course, no reason or justification for this policy. None.

    The result?

    So, what happens if this little bimbette puppet decides she wants to go into ROTC, and wants to take her little head set with her?

    Citing the idiocy of the JROTC policy, she has a precedent to point to, and the military’s case to keep this crap out is weakened accordingly.

    Then what?

  22. Old Cav Lt says:

    The military, BTW, discriminates every day in a variety of ways, although those ways, like the end of DADT, will become increasingly fewer in number and, like the end of DADT, wind up in the disproportionate use of facilities and assets to work, decrease mission capability and retention, and increase costs.

    But, by God, we will be fair, because our mission is to no longer break things and kill people. Our mission is to become the fringe-left’s social test tube while they keep their skirts clean… since, again like DADT, they, personally, won’t have to directly live with the consequence of their PC policy changes.

  23. Doc Bailey says:

    call me a bigot, but I always felt the Hijab to be a rather negative tradition. I can get wearing something similar if you have made the choice to be celibate, live in a Convent and such, but I can not see it as something that is good for everyone.

    of course interestingly in a lot of cultures where women are repressed, you’ll often find that it is the matriarch (and not the patriarch) who is the most repressive. I always found that a little odd.

  24. Yat Yas 1833 says:

    I guess ROTC has changed since I was in school. I remember a number of friends taking ROTC to see if the military was something they might consider. A few did with two becoming lifers. The guys had to have their hair cut to almost regulation length, the girls had to wear their hair up and they all wore the same shade of nylons, etc. They were UNIFORM.

    It seems to me a great teaching opportunity is being lost here. These kids are reaching the age where they will have to make their own decisions and express their own values. Do they consider their religion to be the dominant factor in their life or might there be something else that can be just as important?

    I also feel the leaders of these ROTC “units”, have a duty to maintain certain standards in dress and conduct. Let’s say this young lady finishes her “tour” of ROTC and decides to enlist in an active duty branch,will she be allowed to wear her hijab during recruit training? FlyingCowofDoom, I would like to know where your information about trimmed beards and gas masks came from. The Marine Corps and the Phoenix Fire Department are pretty damn adamant about no facial hair so as not to break the seal of said gas mask or our SCBAs. Maybe being a Marine has skewed my out look on things but you put a picture of my Marine uncles from Korea, next to pictures of my older brothers and cousins from Nam, next to pictures of myself and my peer cousins of the Cold War, next to pictures of my son and nephews from the ’80s & 90s next to pictures of the youngest nephews serving now and all our uniforms look much alike, even after 60 years. Uniforms…

  25. OWB says:

    Just can’t let this one go!

    If she has this much difficulty making a decision to accept the dictates of the service regarding the wearing of a uniform, can you imagine how much fun it would be to supervise her?

  26. Anonymous says:

    For all those dudes who like chicks in balaclavas.

  27. joshua says:

    USA isnt what you expect it to be lol i lived over seas for a while came back and joined jrotc, so if people can’t were a cloth on there head in uniform but can wear slippers here at bossier high, well that ”FUCKED” up and i totally disagree so for every muslim out there don’t worry but someone does care and don’t just leave the program either just deal with it and press forward
    C/Capt J. Todd

  28. James V says:

    Makes me wonder what Abraham Lincoln Jenkins would have to say about this…

  29. jamilah says:

    Bro u funny hijabis turnin u on!!! Yeah i totally agree with u cuz me frend is a hijabi n she would like to join rotc with me ( inshallah) BUT UR SO RITE HIJABS MAKE WOMEN HOT N MYSTERIOUS IN A GOOD WAY!!!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *