Marine Veteran hauled away for Facebook posts

| August 19, 2012

JP, Eagle Keeper and Spencer sent us links to a story about Brandon J. Raub, a Marine veteran who has posting Paulian, and truther crap to his Facebook Wall which has the police in Chesterfield, Virginia a little worried about him, so they took him to get him a mental evaluation at a local hospital;

A viewer sent 8News a video which shows Raub being detained on Thursday by FBI agents and Chesterfield County police officers. Raub’s mother, who was interviewed on the “Josh Tolley Show,” expressed her view of the situation: “He was questioned about why he was making those comments…he was very calm. I wasn’t there, so I’m going off what Brandon told me. He was not read his rights. I want that to be very clear, he was NOT read his rights. He was put in the back of a Chesterfield County police car and taken away.”


Some folks are exercised
that a two-tour combat veteran has been carried off by the police under the direction of the FBI, and although I sympathize with the sentiment, I find it hard to feel much sympathy for him when he posts this kind of lunacy on his Facebook wall;

On the other hand, I don’t see the FBI rounding up the James Holmes and the Jared Loughners – guys who have no military service – for their irrational behavior. I’m sure there are scads of them among the Paulians. This guy seems to have been begging for it, but nevertheless, there are plenty of civilians who have been doing the same, I have to guess. Raub has been getting hundreds of shares on his FB rantings. I wonder how many the FBI are investigating.

Mostly, I own guns to protect my family and myself from people like Raub (and, well, zombies), so I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. And these are the same people who want to circumvent the Constitution to force us to vote for Ron Paul in November.

Category: General Whackos, Ron Paul

Comments (42)

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  1. Joshua says:

    Yes, because the police are free to haul you away for what you say. This is what the founders wanted Jon. DUH!

  2. SomePeoplesKids says:

    I think the most disturbing part of it is probably the fact that he ends all of his comments with winky faces. I find it disturbing, lol.

  3. Jonn Lilyea says:

    That was kind of my point, Joshua. I don’t like that they start hauling off veterans, especially with so little reason. It’s almost as if they’re going by Napolitano’s DHS warning about veterans. There are plenty of nutty civilians out there, but they seem to justify their actions because it’s a crazy veteran.

    I said that it’s hard to sympathize with him because of the nutbaggery that he posts, but that’s still no reason to haul his ass off.

  4. JP says:

    I think the guy’s posts were nuts, and I disagree with his views. But I find it very disconcerting that he was hauled off like that, and it’s right in tune with Mr. Janet Napolitano’s views regarding veterans. Even though his posts were batshit crazy, at the same time we have people like the New Black Panther Party making public statements about revolution, killing whitey house to house, etc, and we don’t see them getting hauled off. We live in very strange times…

  5. Marine 83 says:

    I despise paulbots and truthers, but I really don’t understand what the FBI is doing involved in this. About the only law this kid seems to have broken is law of common sense and the FBI has no jurisdiction over that. Same with the local police.

  6. Jonn,

    Thanks for the posting, in 2009 due to a medication mishap I went off my rocker….instead of taking me to the VA for some help ( I am a disabled vet ). Well the police where called by my scared wife never once did I threaten anyone with violence but I did run my mouth if given the chance. After going round and round with them I was taken to the local jail and put in a restraining chair, put in the drunk tank and pepper sprayed twice. Left alone to choke on myself and at times fighting to breathe… Talk about being pissed off, I can only imagine what they have done to this guy in the psych ward and for what for running his mouth. Although I agree that his postings are way off center he never once posed a direct threat to the anyone. Why would a Marine who is trained to asses his situation resist arrest, I find it highly unlikely he did, and will give him the benefit of the doubt before I give it to the authorities. I would hope that someone in the Marines goes to his aid or you can throw out all that bullshit about “Semper Fi”. This shit happens all the time to our Vets, and folks just assume we are off our rocker….utter bullshit man! sorry for the rant!

    SAR

  7. Did the “Black Panthers” not offer a 10,000 dollar reward to kill Zimmerman……wtf!

  8. Eggs says:

    A friend on FB posted this quote the other day –

    “Today’s white supremacists in the military become tomorrow’s domestic terrorists once they are out.” Scott Barfield, Defense Department Investigation, 2006

    to which I replied – “I think that population is minimal” and “I wonder what his assessment (if any) of Hasan was”.

    Crickets.

  9. Last post promise. If you despise him for being a Paulbot, 911 truther etc. Remember he signed the dotted line and defended this country and it’s constitution. He should have the right to talk about whatever floats his boat as long as he cause’s no one any harm!

  10. Squid Wiz says:

    I didn’t get to see the whole arrest but from what I did see, it appeared to me they were being fairly gentle with him. I have to wonder if it wasn’t a MH arrest. A good portion of the people I’m seeing right now are significantly mentally ill, arrested for misdemeanors or making threats against themselves/others, and (depending on what they’ve said) are at times questioned by Secret Service and FBI. Thats just a matter of course, for them to be interrogated to assess whether they really are a threat. After that, they end up getting plugged into care. Not saying thats absolutely the way it went down in this case but I don’t think it can be absolutely excluded as a possibility.

    Another article I read said someone tipped off the FBI on this case. It makes me wonder if one of his family or friends wasn’t legitimately concerned about his state of mind and didn’t throw up the red star clusters. We don’t know what was specifically stated in that “tip” but it might have been something significant enough for them to think they should have acted. The fact that he was a veteran may have actually prompted a loved one or friend to take action, assuming that his comments or actions were somehow related to his service.

  11. Let me tell you, there’s a lot more people talking about “revolution” on Facebook than Ron Paul fans, and none of them are getting hauled off for mental health issues.

  12. Squid Wiz says:

    @6 Its unfortunate that the situation evolved as it did. Back in western NY, where I’m from originally, we had people brought into the ER on a mental hygeine arrest all the time. Thats the way it should have unfolded, particularly given the fact that you were on medications and a vet.

    Napolitano should have been sacked for her comments about vets. That having been said, I do think there are people out there that maintain a lower bar for intervening in cases that involve vets not because they fear them to be more dangerous but because they feel a responsibility to ensure that someone who sacrificed for his or her country is not allowed to slip through the cracks. The fact that some jurisdictions actually have veteran courts, where the focus is more on getting the veteran the right type of intervention and not just punishing, would seem to suggest that the motive is not always nefarious.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Soooo. . . Now the FiBbIes, po-po, and other LEOs have become involved in circumventing and negating the First and Fourth Amendments!? I mean, even more then they do and have already!?
    Yes, this man’s FB statements are over the top, but has he actually done anything to harm anyone in circumvention of the law? If he did, why has he not been charged? If not, why was he brought in, in handcuffs?
    Maybe I shouldn’t speak of breaking the law, because we have reached the point that Ayn Rand spoke of, where there are SO many laws, and contradictory, that you can’t go through the day without breaking at least half-a-dozen of them.
    And that is how the Gubbment keeps the serfs and sheeple under control, with the guilt and threat of arrest and punishment over the too myriad of stupid and controlling laws on the books.

  14. @12 They never asked and assumed I had been drinking or taking drugs. I quit drinking in 2005 and don’t do drugs. They never once asked my wife or took into consideration I had just got out of the Army. I was given Paxil for depression and that shit set me off. After being released I was taken to the VA by my wife and was placed under care, treated and released never to have those problems again thank god!

    I know we are not getting the full picture here but does it not make you wonder if he was not profiled for his veterans status. If he is off his rocker then why is he going before a federal judge on Monday for resisting arrest? Instead getting treatment and that charge being waived?

  15. Marine 83 says:

    SAR @ #9, if you read my post carefully I think you will see that I agree with you.

  16. CAs6 says:

    “Some of leaders were involved with the bombing of the twin towers. It was a sacrifice and a complete inside job. Also the Bush’s are very sick twisted problems. I believe they have a secret Castle in Colorado where they have been raping and sacrificing children for many years. Think I’m crazy? Think again.”

    What an inbred knucklepuck.

    I thought again. Yep, still a crazy, inbred knucklepuck. I hate when veterans use their status as veterans as authority when they spread insane crap like this.

  17. Marine, sorry no confusion here bro, not sure why I felt the need to make that statement but I let it fly anyway and was not directed at you. Semper Fi! HOOYA and all that good shit…lol

  18. Squid Wiz says:

    @14 Again, I totally I think you got shafted in that case. Every state is different in how they handle these situations and my experience is that even jurisdictions in the same state can differ. Jurisdictions in big cities or around bases tend to be more likely to give veterans the benefit of the doubt and take them to the hospital first. At least, thats been my experience. Doesn’t mean that it happens that way all of the time though as your story illustrates.

    I’m not saying he is off his rocker. What I’m saying is that its possible someone genuinely thought he was off his rocker and was acting in good faith when they placed the call. Profiling doesn’t always work against us…there are people that give veterans the benefit of the doubt that there may be a medical issue driving their behavior. All you have to do is watch the news every time a veteran does do something criminal and you have every news outlet waxing poetic about how the person must have been mentally ill. Even Hasan…when they speculating that he had snapped and had PTSD from secondary traumatization…I thought I was going to seriously vomit. But I digress. My point is that people wanted to think the best about the veterans, that they were ill and not just criminals.

    Maybe someone did go high and to the right when they sounded the alarm. If he was evaluated and not mentally ill, then he will be held accountable for resisting arrest or at least, he’ll be charged. Some places still go through the exercise of charging someone, even if they are mentally ill, even though they later drop or reduce the charges.

  19. JP says:

    I’m curious as to why the FBI would be called in for mental hygiene? Wouldn’t that be local PD?

  20. Joshua says:

    Folks, answer me this: I see Paulbot used as a derogetory term on here quite a bit.

    Is it meant to signify someone who follows Ron Paul’s political philosophy?

  21. Marine 83 says:

    SAR @ #17 cool, no problems. Your statement just sounded like there was some confusion about my post.

  22. Patrick B says:

    This is total BS… Unless he made a threat it should have never happened.
    Only reason I can think of them picking someone up like this is if family called them to do so. If it was family the feds would not have been involved ….

  23. Squid Wiz says:

    FBI would not necessarily be called in for a MH arrest however if there was some lack of clarity as to whether he was legitimately ill or a threat or both, I could imagine they might be involved. Secret Service regularly get involved when crazy people on the streets of DC threaten POTUS. Its just to determine the actual validity of the threat after which they generally disengage.

    I’ve conceded that its entirely possible this wasn’t some type of well meaning intervention gone wrong. I do think however it might be worth waiting until we jump to conclusions about it. And when theres a little more information…then we can be good and pissed off.

  24. rb325th says:

    I am betting this Vet made more than just comments on facebook, that he may have very well made comments in other media or in person that led some to believe he was threat to others or himself. The feds do not get involved otherwise in some simple “Loos Change” ramblings…
    I am not buying at all the hype by all his loose change buddies that this was simply because of his facebook postings. If it was, I can think of quite a few friends and or acquaintances who would have been carted off already.
    From the little we can see on his facebook postings, he was in my opinion not all that stable and had some serious issues that needed to be addressed.
    Hope he gets the help he needs.

  25. Squid Wiz says:

    I’m not sure where the scoop on the hearing on Monday is coming from (not that I’m doubting it) but as of this afternoon the local news was reporting he was in a hospital being evaluated.

    http://www.wric.com/story/19314603/chesterfield-man-marine-veteran-detained-for-online-posts

  26. B Woodman says:

    Damn tablet! Deleted my personal info!
    Anyway, that’s me at #13.

  27. WOTN says:

    Yes, Joshua, Paulbots have a tendency to be batshit crazy.

    Yes, it seems that the Marine in jail conforms to Paulbot batshit crazy.

    Regardless of his Veteran status, or his beliefs in crazy conspiracy theory BS, he does have 1st Amendment Rights. The Right to Free Speech would be unnecessary if it protected only unoffensive speech. It instead protects offensive, politically incorrect, and batshit crazy speech. It is Constitutionally protected to say that one believes a Revolution is coming, and even that one believes the Revolutionaries will select themselves as the leader.

    Where the 1st Amendment no longer offers protection is when that person conspires, through speech, to lead a violent action, to convince someone else to commit violence, or in expressing that the individual himself will commit violence.

    In short, it doesn’t matter that he was batshit crazy and telling the world howso, or that he is a Veteran. It matters that he is a Citizen, with the Right to Free Speech.

    As the SCOTUS justified in their Stolen Valor ruling, the best counter to Speech, is Speech. While I disagree with their ruling, in this case, their justification is spot on. I disagree with the incarcerated Marine profusely, but he has a right to spout his idiotic beliefs, and to be proven wrong by detractors, i.e. logical individuals, exercising their own 1st Amendment Rights. This case will only fuel, not only his own paranoia, but also the fears of Citizens, who disagree with him, of their Government.

  28. Squid Wiz says:

    Just to reinforce, this Marine is not incarcerated. Hes being held for observation. Virginia law is quite clear. The state will not be able to hold him for psychiatric treatment for more than 48 hours. After that, he will have a hearing, before a judge and with access to counsel if he chooses, to determine whether he requires continued involuntary admission. If it cannot be proven by clear and convincing evidence that hes a danger to himself or others, hes going to be released from the hospital. Whether he is detained for some other charge (like resisting arrest) is a separate matter.

    The Constitution gives us the right to freedom of speech but nowhere does it say that that right does not come with responsibilities or consequences. If I slander someone, I’m liable and can be sued for damages. If I scream “fire” in a theater, I can be charged if anyone is injured for my inciting a riot. I agree that it doesn’t look, based on the information that we have, that this individual conveyed a direct threat towards someone but I don’t think that its fair to say that his right to free speech protects him from being questioned about statements that others have deemed concerning. If he was actually in a jail right now (or if he actually gets put in a jail) for those statements, that would be a different matter. The article says that the FBI was “tipped off”. What that says to me is that someone was concerned enough to pick up the phone and place a call. How do you expect the FBI and cops not to investigate under such a circumstance?

    BTW, In VA they also have something called the Community Services Board. They are an independent group that assesses individuals requiring involuntary commitment. Either this guy said something that they felt indicated he was a threat to himself or an imminent threat to others or they had credible collateral information to make them think that he needed to be temporarily admitted.

  29. WOTN says:

    Squid, as you state, there is no evidence that he made any statements that could be considered unlawful. No where is it indicated that “he yelled fire,” or that he “slandered” or “libeled” anyone. It is only demonstrated that he believes in whacko Conspiracy theories, and publicly demonstrates his idiocy.

    I have looked at people in ways they “considered” concerning. That’s not a justification for detainment.

    Anyone can “drop a tip” on anyone. Harry Reid can drop a tip that Romney hasn’t paid taxes. Hillary can drop a tip that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. You could drop a tip that Yon “is a drug trafficker.”

    Dropping a tip isn’t proof of wrong-doing, nor grounds for detention.

  30. Squid Wiz says:

    I agree and it is more than someone just being “concerned.” There has to be some justification and the facts, when taken as a whole, have to suggest that the person is 1) likely mentally ill and 2) a danger to himself or others. A tip merely raises awareness, it in and of itself does not justify detention.

    I would also say theres a big difference between dropping a “tip” about something fishy in a general sense and being concerned that someone is ill. I can’t tell you how many cases of suicide or attempted suicide we’ve seen where multiple people had heard or seen the person say or do something suggesting that they needed help. And usually, people don’t do something or say something because they don’t want to pry or piss the person off. A hell of a lot of good it does when they guy kills himself. So do I lean towards the side of encouraging people to at least ask questions? Sure I do. This guy still has due process to fight his detention. The guys that Holmes and Loughner killed or the 40+ active duty members that killed themselves last month don’t.

    Again, I’m not saying that there may not be something fishy. The latest is that he was involuntarily committed to the VA for up to 30 days of observation. One would hope they are not operating under political pressure but I suppose thats possible. Once you’re involuntarily committed though, the doctors taking care of you can release you at any time provided that they no longer believe you to be a danger to yourself or others. Hopefully, the VA doctors are not willing to risk their licenses by caving to pressure and if they detain him, its because they believe he is legitimately ill.

  31. Green Thumb says:

    Bottom line: The guy is a moron for posting the shit unless he needed or wanted sympathy, credit or attention.

  32. WOTN says:

    5th Amendment: “No person… shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law….”

    According to published reports, Raub has not been convicted or charged with ANY crime. He has made statements that are widely accepted as idiotic, but once again, as a Citizen, he has a Right to Free Speech.

  33. Fred says:

    I think this Raub guy’s comments and stated beliefs are totally nuts.

    However, I think the decision to detain him for observation was clearly out of line and discriminatory towards veterans.

    Are all veterans now potential terrorists or what?

  34. I sent Jonn a update from a article from Business Insider “Military” maybe it will get posted. Not sure of protocol here. It seems he has been detained for 30 days in the psych ward “That His Facebook post were Terrorist in nature”?

    SAR

  35. @32 Green Thumb

    “Bottom line: The guy is a moron for posting the shit unless he needed or wanted sympathy, credit or attention.”

    That is by far the most “Moronic” post in this whole thread.

    SAR

  36. Green Thumb says:

    @36. Riddle me this “SAR”:

    Why would you post those remarks and if so, why? (Obviously redundant)

    Would you?

    Curious?

    While I do not agree with the unproportional response by our taxpayer-funded government agencies, in the end, why act like a fool and ask for trouble?

    Whatever argument you are able to produce, I will counter with common sense is common sense.

    Or class, if your prefer.

  37. Squid Wiz says:

    Fifth amendment would be in play were it not for the fact that hes had due process of law through a civil commitment hearing where he was represented by counsel and had the right to present evidence on his behalf.

  38. Squid Wiz says:

    And actually, I think 14th would be applicable but again, hes had due process.