Idiots in the gun control debate

| December 16, 2012 | 934 Comments

Yeah, I’ve read some real stupid shit in teh interwebz today in regards to gun control, but this one just deserved a public answer. It’s from some shithole called Balloon Juice written by a guy named John Cole who explains that he was supposedly in the 11th ACR stationed at Camp Doha between the wars with Iraq;

So why am I telling you this? Because in the middle of one of the most dangerous regions in the world, even with clear Rules of Engagement, every time I went on gate duty, there was a piece of tape over my ammo clip on my M-16 and M1911 .45. Why? Because the most heavily armed military in the world did not want accidental shootings. If a situation arose, I would have to eject my ammo clip, remove the tape, and reinsert and work the action before I could fire.

This was in a combat zone. Yet I have spent the last two fucking days dealing with armchair commandos telling me they need unlimited firepower to be safe in… Connecticut.

If there are bigger pussies in the world than gun nuts, I don’t know who the fuck they are.

So, because he was such an incompetent boob that he needed to have his ammo taped in his magazine, gun nuts are pussies – yeah, I don’t see the connection either. Besides, he calls them “ammo clips” – who, with more than a day in the Army, calls box magazines “ammo clips”? So, I’m thinking that John Cole was a cook, or anything except someone his unit would allow to guard something. And, I’m pretty sure that between the Iraq Wars, the Army was using 9mm Barettas and not the M1911A1 .45 cal pistol.

And the reason any magazines were taped wasn’t to prevent the ammunition from loading. The Army did that when ammunition was passed between guard shifts for accountability. But, of course, any dingus who thought they’re called “ammo clips” wouldn’t know that.

So why do I call Balloon Juice a shit hole? Because all of their writers are gun grabbing facists, apparently. They write shit like this;

Bernard Finel: If it were in my power, I’d seize every fucking firearm in the country other than revolvers, shotguns, and bolt-action rifles and melt them all down.

mistermix: If you must own an AR-15 or Bushmaster or AK-47, it should stay locked in your personal gun cabinet at the range, never to leave. If you change ranges, a bonded courier can take it to the new one. The same is true of the high-capacity clips for your Glock, your 100-round drum magazines, and all the other expensive toys that let you bang off a couple of dozen rounds in a minute. Yeah, that’s expensive and a nuisance. So are the laws surrounding other potentially unsafe pursuits.

Mistermix, my Glock uses high capacity magazines, not clips. The ammunition for my M4 is in clips until I put the bullets in the magazine. If you’re going to talk the language of gun control, learn the language of guns first.

After posting the Wikipedia entry for events leading up to the UK’s gun ban, Imani Gandy (ABL) posts this;

Am I suggesting that we ban handguns? No, not really. I am suggesting we have a sensible discussion about gun-control laws that leads to, as President Obama put it, meaningful action.

If you weren’t suggesting that we ban guns, why did you have to tell us that the UK banned guns because of an incident somewhat similar to Sandy Hook? Every leftist gun grabbing fascist on the internet is talking about “a sensible discussion”, but their discussion of a sensible discussion is senseless.

Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists

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  1. Hondo says:

    Here, Mashtots, let me spell in out for you:

    Mash: old slang for sexual attraction/molestation; current slang for getting wasted via smoking cannabis

    tots: longstanding slang for small children

    Therefore, “Mash-tots” translates to either (1) someone who is sexually attracted to small children – i.e., a pedophile, or (2) someone who provides drugs to small children.

    Geez, if that was so hard for you to “get”, one might think you’re a naive 13 y/o tool whose mommie doesn’t know he’s using her computer while she’s out shopping.

    Right, Spring-boy?

  2. Nik says:

    Deadliest school mass murder? Not Columbine and not a gun. Bath, Michigan. 1927. Explosives.

  3. Hondo says:

    Broke Hammer: source documenting the Cafe Racer incident. A reliable one – ant that excludes anything from “talkingpointsmemo.com”, which seems to deal pretty much exclusively in MSU (Making Shit Up).

  4. Hondo says:

    confused: Actually, your admission in 574 above proves you either (1) deliberately dissembled in a previous argument, or (2) were so naive you didn’t know the difference between automatic and semiautomatic weapons, got caught, and are now backpedaling. Care to enlighten us as to which?

  5. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    @602. So tell me again why we properly blame the drunk driver who kills or maims with his car but the gun is blamed when someone illegally shoots someone else.

  6. mere mortal says:

    @586

    “mere mortal: Congratulations. You made a reasonable statement of position with which a rational response can be offered. Why do you associate yourself with the ill-tempered and vulgar lot you’ve thrown in with?”

    Mostly because they are not. So many people are on edge because of this thing, and the outraged and defensive alike are saying intemperate things. One of my Facebook friends got threatened with violence by one of his after he asked why children’s deaths in a decade of war are ignored while these 20 are so prominent.

    I sort of get it but I mostly don’t. My job, as my life, are ruled by the rational, and I have no children for the visceral emotional projection.

    I guess what I’m saying is that just about everyone with opposing positions on guns are being ill-tempered and vulgar this week. It is not surprising that the politicians who defend gun rights stayed far, far away from the Sunday political blah blah shows.

    But what do I know, I’m just a libtard prognazi with mental and genital deficiencies who cannot please his lover.

    P.S.: This time with subject-verb disagreement!

  7. Ben Hammer says:

    @594 “Short of opening up medical records; you can’t legislate crazy or stupid.”

    Why is our homicide rate (all weapons) 270% of Canada’s? 370% of the UK’s and Australia’s? 425% of Germany’s? Several other high-income 1st world countries have stricter gun laws than us but grant concealed carry permits to ordinary citizens… and have rates of gun homicide 1/8th of ours. Looks like they have found a way to “legislate” weapons out of the hands of nuts.

  8. melle1228 says:

    @608 Because they don’t want anyone to take away their cars.. so that is off limits even though cars kill more than guns do.

  9. melle1228 says:

    @610 Yo

  10. Ex-PH2 says:

    @603 – You had me worried there for a second.

    I’m appalled at some of the vitriol I’ve seen posted by the so-called liberal/progressive/whatever it is end of the political spectrum. This is not what went around in the 1960s to 1980s. People were at least civil, and could agree to disagree about something. But this stuff? It isn’t disagreement. It’s verbal abuse. How deep does this hatred really flow?

    And let’s talk abut abortion. Right now. It’s a woman’s issue. It has nearly nothing to do with men. Sometimes, it’s medically necessary. However, it is NOT birth control and using it that way smacks of a refusal to accept responsibility for what you did, girlfriend, which is simple: you want to get laid but you don’t want to deal with the consequences, so you turn to abortion instead of accepting responsibility for what you did. Leave the men out of it. No one told you to drop your undies. So if you want to get laid and you don’t want kids out of it, then get your damned tubes tied or get an IUD, and don’t expect me, or anyone else to pick up the tab for that. And if you want birth control pills, then you pay for them, not me and not the taxpayers. It’s your responsibility.

  11. melle1228 says:

    @610 Please link your sources mmkay, because 99% of statistics are made up shit..

  12. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    @609. And you have a sense of humor too. That’s good and appreciated. Unfortunately, this mil blog where many Veterans and families of Veterans join in community was targeted by Cole. He launched his attack last night and a few returned this evening. That’s what’s happened here.

  13. Nik says:

    @610

    Why are our rates lower than that of Mexico, even though they have stricter gun laws than we do?

  14. Hondo says:

    mere mortal: regarding Cole’s use of terms, his audience is irrelevant. Knowingly using an incorrect term without explaining oneself is evidence of intellectual sloppiness or actual ignorance. Either causes knowledgeable readers to question the author’s credibility.

    Cole’s readers would have accepted either term from him. The fact that he used a known-incorrect term for virtually any semi-automatic weapon manufactured after the M1 would lead any knowledgeable person to question Cole’s credibility. The fact that he was doing so while also obviously (and falsely) trying to present himself as someone who’d faced “great danger” in the military only exacerbates the effect.

    In short: Cole was trying to sound like a badass, high-speed/low drag troop, when in reality he saw no action and did nothing special. No he didn’t lie outright. But he might as well have.

    That dog don’t hunt here at TAH.

  15. Ben Hammer says:

    @617

    Nik, if you can’t tell the difference between a prosperous 1st world rule-of-law country like the US, Canada, Germany, Australia and the UK… and a 3rd world hellhole that’s the primary battleground for control of our multi-billion $ narco trade… it’s not my job to educate you.

  16. melle1228 says:

    @617

    And gun violence is on the rise in China despite their draconian laws against gun. Don’t have access to a gun or a weapon- criminals and murderers will just make one..

    “Other notable instances of guns: Another man on a rampage killed five family members and neighbors with a homemade pistol in 2007; a man thought to have been killed by an exploding cell phone battery actually died when a makeshift firearm malfunctioned. Last year, we reported on a gang-related shooting in Putuo District where four homemade guns were confiscated”

    http://shanghaiist.com/2010/06/25/gun_culture_on_the_rise.php

  17. Hondo says:

    Broke Hammer: it’s not my job to document your assertions, amigo. You make the claim, you provide the proof.

    To your credit, you actually did. That’s more than most of your ideological bent can do when queried.

  18. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    @619. And how would you characterize D.C. and Chicago? How about Baltimore?

  19. Hondo says:

    Nik: sounds to me like Broke Hammer just admitted that gun laws are irrelevant and don’t work very well to control gun violence. In fact, it seems like he distinctly said that societal factors were far more important than legal prohibitions.

  20. Nik says:

    @620

    Yes. Seems people have forgotten the term “zip gun”.

  21. Ben Hammer says:

    @615

    You’re saying that our homicide rates aren’t 270% of Canada’s? 370% of the UK’s and Australia’s? 425% of Germany’s? Hereyago.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    You’re saying that other 1st world countries w/tighter laws but that do allow concealed carry don’t have gun homicide rates 1/8th of ours? Hereyago.
    http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/2/214

  22. melle1228 says:

    @622 OoH OOh–I can already make their argument for them. They would say that those bans don’t work because the community around them doesn’t have similiar bans. Then they miss the whole point, that we are an open nation and as such a gun ban would never work nationally because Mexico does not respect our laws..

  23. Nik says:

    @623

    That was my read on it. Canada, UK, Australia, Germany and Mexico help prove, it’s not the gun laws, it’s the society.

    If it were just the existence of gun laws that did the job, places like Chicago, DC and Detroit wouldn’t be looking so much like Mexico City, statistics-wise.

  24. Hondo says:

    And yet Mexico has draconian gun laws and a higher homicide rate. So what gives, Broken Hammer? Do the laws matter or not? Or is something else the critical factor?

  25. Ben Hammer says:

    @623, 624

    It cracks me up that you claim the US is more like Mexico than we are like Canada or the UK or Australia or Germany or Norway. You do realize how ridiculous you sound, right?

  26. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    Well, then, ‘scuse me for stating the obvious but we are left with a solution that is bound to fail. Imagine that!

  27. melle1228 says:

    @625 Like I said statistics are made up shit. Now can you tell me how many of those deaths are from LEGAL firearms or those who choose to ignore gun regulations?

    And the assess to guns could have absolutely NOTHING to do with homocide rates. Causation isn’t your strong suit, is it? Even your own source remarks this: “Further research to identify risk factors associated with these variations may help improve prevention efforts.”

  28. Nik says:

    @629

    And parts of the US are more like Mexico than Canada. I’m not talking about language or culture or the color of their skin. I’m talking about the levels of violence exhibited.

  29. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    Okay, signing off. Nicely done you people.

  30. Hondo says:

    Broken Hammer: no, it merely demonstrates the lack of logic in your position. If your position were correct, there would be a high negative statistical correlation between a numerical measure of strictness of a locality’s gun control laws and their firearm homicide rate (and thus their overall homicide rate). As has been pointed out, that isn’t the case.

    Try again, please – with a better effort and argument next time.

  31. Ben Hammer says:

    @632, 634

    Why do you think the United States has more in common with Mexico than we do with other prosperous 1st world nations like Canada and Australia and the UK? That’s nuts.

    You guys can’t come up with any facts. No wonder you make up crap about veteran’s service records. When you don’t have the facts on your side, might as well bang your shoe on the table, amirite?

  32. Anonymous says:

    @539

    Yo, Z.F. Mashtots

    Way up there in post #462 I provided the answer to your assertion that we ‘won’t do our self-appointed job and stop one of these massacres’. Are you too lazy to read, or just happy being willfully ignorant?

  33. melle1228 says:

    @635 You do realize that Norway has Europe’s highest gun ownership per capita and its lowest murder rate.. right?

  34. Ben Hammer says:

    Thisainthell is for poseurs who call out veterans’ service records, get their false claims shot out from under them in flames… and walk away from the burning rubble, shouting “VICTORY!”

    And for moms-basement-dwellers who think a narco turf war in Mexico is like being served warm beer in the UK or Canada.

  35. Jacobite says:

    Damn, #636 was me.

    Anyhow Mash, based on extensive evidence, privately armed citizens prevent an overwhelming amount of crime, all the time. Something our law enforcement professionals wish they could do. Educate yourself then get back to us.

  36. Hondo says:

    Don’t believe I ever said or implied Mexico had more in common with the US than Canada, Broken Hammer. Even someone with your apparently limited intellect and reading comprehension skills should be able to read the comments above and see that.

    What I did say is that (1) you’ve already contradicted your own argument, and (2) societal factors are provably more important than legal prohibitions when it comes to a locality’s murder rate. You’re probably too thick to realize you’ve already contradicted yourself, though.

    But maybe you do. You’re starting to resort to baseless invective and insults. Someone who belatedly realizes they’ve “stepped on it” often does exactly that.

    You should probably do yourself a favor and just shut up. You’re only making yourself look more foolish with each new comment here.

  37. JP says:

    @Butthammer, #638

    “”Thisainthell is for poseurs who call out veterans’ service records, get their false claims shot out from under them in flames… and walk away from the burning rubble, shouting “VICTORY!”””

    Of course, TAH’s record of being right 99% of the time says otherwise, but I’ve noticed you’re not a big fan of facts anyway, so fuck it.

    As you were.

  38. DaveO says:

    700

    A new troll, Benhammeringhisownmom joins us from teh interwebz with a classic ass sandwich of accusation.

    Think we’re going to hit 1,000 on this thread? What’s the current record? 12?

  39. Ben Hammer says:

    @631

    Gun homicides are mostly committed w/illegally obtained weapons, huh? Wrong again. 3/4 of mass shootings are done w/legally obtained weapons in the USA. I’ll be glad to dig up more stats for shootings here and elsewhere if you’ll admit up front that you think otherwise and that if you’re proven wrong, that proves tighter gun control appears to be working in the UK, Canada, Australia, etc… instead of just running away to a new topic… like you have the last half dozen times I’ve done this for y’all.
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

  40. JP says:

    Interesting map, Ben.

    Thank you for posting it. Kind of weird how many of these shootings with “legally obtained guns” happen in states with strict gun control that get high marks from anti-gun campaigns.

  41. Ben Hammer says:

    @641,642

    I knew you poseurs would out yourselves and start making ass-sex references. Mission accomplished.

  42. JP says:

    * Not “anti-gun”, I meant pro-control

  43. Jacobite says:

    Well Hammer, since you’re a fan of statistics and such, go up and read post #462, and the attached information before you draw anymore conclusions from the skewed numbers and false garbage you’re trying to use.

  44. Hondo says:

    Broken Hammer: the source you cite in comment 643 above is absolute crap. Any source that claims the weapons used by Lanza last week were “obtained legally” is baldfaced lying.

    At 20, Lanza was not old enough to legally purchase firearms in CT. He obtained them by stealing them – after murdering his own mother. They were her weapons, not his.

    Theft of a dead woman’s property is not a legal way to obtain anything.

    Geez, you’re not even trying.

  45. Hondo says:

    Broken Hammer: by the way, should we construe your assertion that comment 642 contains an “ass sex reference” as some kind of admission on your part about your relationship with . . . . um, never mind. I don’t think I really want to know the details.

  46. melle1228 says:

    @643 Despite the mediazation of mass shootings they remain very rare. I asked you the number of murder committed by legal firearms versus illegal firearms.

    And furthermore, you I cited the fact that Norway has the most guns per capita in Europe but the lowest murder rate. That shows that gun ownership alone is not the causation of the murder rate. You conveniently want to gloss over the fact that we have a third world country in our backyard which inflates out murder rate. You conveniently want to gloss over the fact that gun regulation does not guarantee an end to gun violence- see China and makeshift weaponry.. Come out of your myopic ivory colored utopia and see the world as the complex place it is.

  47. Ben Hammer says:

    @640

    For the 3rd time, why do you think Mexico is a closer match to the United States than Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, etc? Why do you think the effect of gun control laws in Mexico is more relevant to the US than the effect of such laws in Canada, the UK, Australia, Germany, etc?

    Y’all have asked me for clarification or links half a dozen times. I’ve given it to you. I’m asking you for clarification… but you just keep dick-dancing in golf shoes.

  48. Hondo says:

    He won’t, melle1228. He’s drunk the Kool-Aid and is convinced that “guns . . . bad”, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. He’s incapable of comprehending that guns – like knives, saws, hammers, screwdrivers, ropes, pulleys, automobiles, airplanes, pesticides, and virtually every other invention of mankind – are neither inherently good nor evil. Rather, intent and outcome are governed by the user, not the tool.

    Of course, I’d not expect a tool to be able to comprehend that. And in the second part of Broken Hammer’s screen name, he freely admits he’s a tool.

  49. melle1228 says:

    Again NO CAUSATION between increased gun ownership and homocide..

    “Despite increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease in the United States for the fourth straight year in 2010, according to the FBI.

    The FBI recently released its Crime in The United States statistics for 2010. Overall, murders in the U.S. have decreased steadily since 2006, dropping from 15,087 to 12,996. Firearms murders — which made up 67 percent of all murders in the U.S. in 2010 — have followed this trend, decreasing by 14 percent”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gun-crime-continues-to-decrease-despite-increase-in-gun-ownership/#ixzz2FMqEm4Ct

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010

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