Idiots in the gun control debate
Yeah, I’ve read some real stupid shit in teh interwebz today in regards to gun control, but this one just deserved a public answer. It’s from some shithole called Balloon Juice written by a guy named John Cole who explains that he was supposedly in the 11th ACR stationed at Camp Doha between the wars with Iraq;
So why am I telling you this? Because in the middle of one of the most dangerous regions in the world, even with clear Rules of Engagement, every time I went on gate duty, there was a piece of tape over my ammo clip on my M-16 and M1911 .45. Why? Because the most heavily armed military in the world did not want accidental shootings. If a situation arose, I would have to eject my ammo clip, remove the tape, and reinsert and work the action before I could fire.
This was in a combat zone. Yet I have spent the last two fucking days dealing with armchair commandos telling me they need unlimited firepower to be safe in… Connecticut.
If there are bigger pussies in the world than gun nuts, I don’t know who the fuck they are.
So, because he was such an incompetent boob that he needed to have his ammo taped in his magazine, gun nuts are pussies – yeah, I don’t see the connection either. Besides, he calls them “ammo clips” – who, with more than a day in the Army, calls box magazines “ammo clips”? So, I’m thinking that John Cole was a cook, or anything except someone his unit would allow to guard something. And, I’m pretty sure that between the Iraq Wars, the Army was using 9mm Barettas and not the M1911A1 .45 cal pistol.
And the reason any magazines were taped wasn’t to prevent the ammunition from loading. The Army did that when ammunition was passed between guard shifts for accountability. But, of course, any dingus who thought they’re called “ammo clips” wouldn’t know that.
So why do I call Balloon Juice a shit hole? Because all of their writers are gun grabbing facists, apparently. They write shit like this;
Bernard Finel: If it were in my power, I’d seize every fucking firearm in the country other than revolvers, shotguns, and bolt-action rifles and melt them all down.
mistermix: If you must own an AR-15 or Bushmaster or AK-47, it should stay locked in your personal gun cabinet at the range, never to leave. If you change ranges, a bonded courier can take it to the new one. The same is true of the high-capacity clips for your Glock, your 100-round drum magazines, and all the other expensive toys that let you bang off a couple of dozen rounds in a minute. Yeah, that’s expensive and a nuisance. So are the laws surrounding other potentially unsafe pursuits.
Mistermix, my Glock uses high capacity magazines, not clips. The ammunition for my M4 is in clips until I put the bullets in the magazine. If you’re going to talk the language of gun control, learn the language of guns first.
After posting the Wikipedia entry for events leading up to the UK’s gun ban, Imani Gandy (ABL) posts this;
Am I suggesting that we ban handguns? No, not really. I am suggesting we have a sensible discussion about gun-control laws that leads to, as President Obama put it, meaningful action.
If you weren’t suggesting that we ban guns, why did you have to tell us that the UK banned guns because of an incident somewhat similar to Sandy Hook? Every leftist gun grabbing fascist on the internet is talking about “a sensible discussion”, but their discussion of a sensible discussion is senseless.
December 16th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Another great reason for the tape would be to keep the Kuwaiti sands out.
December 16th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
This sounds like all the making of a VERY cool story!
Balloon Knot should probably put a strip of tape over his mouth.
Too much stupid for me…I need a beer.
December 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
Just brace yourself, the talk is nowhere near over. And make no mistake, when the sensible discussion about guns happens…. Everyone there will think that clip and mag are interchangeable, and that a Bushmaster AR is somehow different/more deadly than any other AR.
Think back to the sheriff in FL after the AWB that somehow was able to demonstrate to Cnn that a non compliant 7.62x39mm and a AWB compliant 7.62x39mm AK were different in destructive power.
A sensible discussion, much like ’94 AWB will not have anything sensible and will be filled with ideas that make these idiots feel good but accomplish nothing.
December 16th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
But doesn’t that Bushmaster two-two-three rifle have grooves cut into the barrel? You know, to make the bullet spin and go faster and kill more people? I remember hearing that once.
December 16th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
If one purchases a weapon and has to store it, in perpetuity, at a range, then one doesn’t own that weapon, the range does. Oh, that’s the whole point? Thanks for clearing that up. Idiots!!
Does that mean that one can purchase a car, but it has to be stored at the dealer? How about knives? Baseball bats? Hammers?
December 16th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
@4, No it is because the bullet tumbles when it leaves the barrel and rips bigger holes in one. (I hate the name Bushmaster, reminds me of snakes)
December 16th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
@6 Close enough. I was trying to reference that reporter who didn’t know dick about weaponry and made that comment after one of the last mass shootings. Dammit.
I also hate the Bushmaster name. Reminds me of being at work.
December 16th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
Last time my unit had tape on their magazines was Fort Knox, Ky, in OSUT training. When a Drill Sergeant caught one of the offenders (who feared ADing in a clearing barrel… there was no ND term then), he rounded up the entire platoon. We also had a guy huffing markers. Drill sergeant crushed both bad ideas in one afternoon. Low crawl across the pit, because you can’t shoot with your ammo taped down. Now about face, and bayonet maneuvers back across the pit. But you’re high on markers, the foe wasn’t even there! So about face, and low crawl across the pit, because you can’t shoot with your ammo taped down… repeat ad nauseum. Nobody made it out of basic thinking tape was acceptable. I doubt any idiot made it to a deployment thinking so.
December 16th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Ok, Jonn, guys…I’m going to come clean, I’ve been less than honest with you all.
I do tape my clips, in fact it is taped right now:
http://tinypic.com/r/6901ls/6
December 16th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
I hate Bushmaster b/c they make crappy AR clones that miss-inormed shoppers buy when they should have saved their money and got a Rock River.
So that’s what the zero-defect Army did in Kuwait back in the 90s, huh? Sounds plausible, but in no way relevant to policy. Suffice to say no tape went on any of my mags during either of my two deployments. The question was whether you were “Red” “Amber” or “Green.”
My stomach turns too over the mindless asshats that we’ll hear pontificate for the next year of so on this.
December 16th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
Banning guns will never stop the psycho assholes out there. Just look at all the gang members with illegal weapons….. It never stopped them that you have to have a class 3 license to own full auto weapons….
December 16th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Camp Doha was a combat zone? We are There was this accidental disaster that blew up a bunch of vehicles and injured some soldiers after desert storm. I understand that it was considered to be constantly ready in case Saddam decided to try again – however remote that possibility was – but a combat zone between the wars? Potentially, I guess. Am I wrong? Educate me.
December 16th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Yeah sensible discussions like this:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/white-house-gun-control-petition-quickly-surpasses-required-signature-count/
Makes complete sense, something happens so lets repeal an amendment. Why don’t we just go for the entire bill of rights. Then the Government can keep us safe from everything.
December 16th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
@12 No it is not. Doha, Arifjan, Udari (Camp Buehring) were and are all Pougevills
December 16th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
OFF TOPIC
Okay, here’s my problem. There’s a Zales jewelry commercial with a catchy tune that I love. I checked it out and the song is “If It Wasn’t for You” by Various Cruelties. My problem is, does this mean I’m turning gay?
December 16th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
@15…
Depends. Just remember, it isn’t gay if you don’t make eye contact.
December 16th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
JP: or if it’s Connery. (smile)
December 16th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
@16. Okay, I’m safe–unless TSO likes it too. If so, I’m changing my wardrobe.
@17. You know you take your lead from Ranger Up videos. (“Box of pox?”) are
December 16th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
@18. Yipes. That was supposed to be, You know you’re in trouble when you take your lead from Ranger Up videos.”
December 16th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
So is Balloon Juice’s John Cole another Counterfeit Cavalry trooper?
My understanding of the 11th ACR is that it was transferred to be Opfor at NTC following the end of Desert Storm. According to Wikipedia, the 11th ACR:
– Inactivated 15 October 1993 – 15 March 1994 in Germany
– Activated 16 October 1994 (less 3d and 4th Squadrons; the Air Defense Artillery Battery; and the Howitzer Batteries, 1st and 2d Squadrons) at Fort Irwin, California
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Armored_Cavalry_Regiment_(United_States)
December 16th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Cole’s window is May to October 1991.
December 16th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
DaveO: according the regiment’s history provided by the Director of the NTC/11th ACR museum, the 11th ACR was deployed to take over the “Defense of Kuwait” – in June 1991, or over 3 months after hostilities in Iraq had ended. They remained there until Sep 1991, at which time they redeployed to Germany. Smaller elements from the 11th ACR (about 200 soldiers) were deployed to augment the 3rd ACR during DS/DS and served admirably. Additionally, the 11th ACR provided an Aviation task force ISO PROVIDE COMFORT beginning in Apr 1991.
http://blackhorse.org/regimenthistory.cfm
Bottom line: it’s possible the dipstick is telling the truth about being with the 11th ACR in the Persian Gulf. But IMO he’s stretching the hell out of things calling duty along the Kuwait/Iraq border in Jun-Sep 1991 being “in one of the most dangerous regions of the world”. By then, it was pretty damn safe to be there as a soldier; absolutely no one was shooting at US forces there. The only significant issues during their deployment were accidental (e.g., the motorpool fire caused by a malfunctioning vehicle heater, which did injure about 50 troops when it went out of control and ammunition began cooking off).
December 16th, 2012 at 4:47 pm
I do, in fact, own a semi-automatic rifle that feeds from “clips”.
It’s called a Garand.
All the rest of my rifles feed from magazines.
December 16th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
@17 Id let that Scottish fucker have his way with me.
December 16th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Gee, when the news people were talking about a Bushmaster, I thought they were talking about that two-handled weedcutter on steroids in the TV infomercials. You know — you can use it to clear out saplings and overgrown areas. But then I remembered that’s a Bushhog.
So then I thought maybe a Bushmaster was the very poisonous snake that lives in the jungles of South America. And how would you shoot people with a snake?
But, no, it’s a gun that Bass Pro Shops doesn’t sell, which is why I didn’t recognize it. It sounds like something that is puffed off as being a “real gun” to people who don’t know the difference.
This is why I prefer the crossbow, aside from the fact that you don’t normally use it to kill people. You hunt with it.
I have a lot of clips in a little dish on my desk. I have more in a box in its cubby hole. Should I tape them?
There are more copycats to come, like the kids at Barrington HS in Barrington, IL who were reported to school officials when they were overheard discussing bringing a gun to the after-game school dance, which was canceled.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/barrington_area/chi-barrington-high-school-dance-cancelled-after-rumors-20121215,0,419869.story
And there’s the idiot in Cedar Lake, IN, who threatened to set his wife on fire and then take some of his 47 guns to the nearby school and kill lots of people.
http://news.msn.com/us/ind-man-with-47-guns-arrested-after-school-threat
The looneytunes are just looking for their chance to hit the limelight.
So my question now is, if it’s all about guns, then why was there no copycat activity in 1966 after Charles Whitman killed so many people from his vantage point in the clock tower at the University of Texas? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman
If it’s all about guns and access to them, then why was there no copycat activity after Brenda Spencer shot up a schoolyard full of children in 1979, because she hated Mondays?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer
If it’s all about guns, then why was there no copycat crime following the rampage by Charles Starkweather and his girlfriend Caril Ann Fugate in 1958? They started with Caril Ann’s mother, stepfather and 2-year-old sister.
http://www.biography.com/people/charles-starkweather-233080
And if it’s about stricter gun laws, then how was Anders Breivik able to get his hands on a weapon and go to an island where his victims had no chance, and kill 91 of them?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/22/explosion-damages-buildings-in-norwegian-capital/
And why was there no follow-up copycat crime right after that event?
If there’s going to be a discussion, those questions should be addressed, not access to guns. But nobody in the group of idiots who are afraid of their own shadows, and who want everything to be “just fine” all the time, is willing to discuss this from that angle, or admit that they don’t have an answer and that it’s got everything to do with a dysfunctional and disconnected society.
December 16th, 2012 at 4:58 pm
What about this part:
“Alpha troop (my unit), would go run border missions in Iraq”
I’m asking because I was probably single digits and the time and have no clue what went on during those years, aside from the basic gist of the Gulf War.
December 16th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
Hmm. A Cav troop who says “clips” instead of magazines? Claims to have carried .45 pistols, when Berettas were actually the carried sidearm?
Kuwait “war zone”? Really, went through Kuwait, coming and going into and out of Iraq many, many times. It was considered R & R. Camp Doha is a dirty, boring, hot place, but about the only thing you could die from there is boredom, the shits, or some pogue who tapes his ammo, says “clips” and throws the F bomb around having an ND.
It really establishes toughness in a vet to use the F bomb gratuitously and call people names (not to their faces)-chicks dig that.
Any bets that ass hat wasn’t Combat Arms? My deployment with 34th ID, scouts, mortars and infantry did the patrols and missions. (Other Combat Arms along, too)
Personnel on guard duty were there because they were not Combat Arms trained, were too afraid to leave the wire, were not trust-worthy, physically ill or injured, or disciplinary cases.
I realize that is not always the case, just sounds like some support guy trying to sound tough. Does come across as a Class A libtard and hand-wringing whiny little bitch though.
December 16th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Believe it or not, John Cole used to be a conservative. Many, many years ago, I used to frequent Balloon Juice and enjoy the commentary. Then he lost his damned mind and is now a raving lunatic whose head is filled with balloon juice and unicorn farts. He’s just another filthy, liberal totalitarian, intent on controlling everyone and every thing. Retards attract retards, so the quality of his commenters is dismal, similar to the regression that happened after Chuckie Johnson went full-strength progtard at Little Green Footballs. You can safely ignore anything produced by these filthy leftists.
December 16th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
If you weren’t suggesting that we ban guns, why did you have to tell us that the UK banned guns because of an incident somewhat similar to Sandy Hook?
Posted by Jonn Lilyea
Yeah, and a lot of good it did in the UK. Great Britain, as a result, ended up having the highest violent crime rate in the world:
The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
Britain’s violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.
Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa – widely considered one of the world’s most dangerous countries. …
The Tories said Labour had presided over a decade of spiralling violence.
In the decade following the party’s election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million – or more than two every minute.
The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:
The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.
But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.
In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.
December 16th, 2012 at 5:16 pm
idaho2run: technically, the entire Arabian Peninsula is still designated a “Combat Zone”. It has been since August 1990. That’s why troops serving there get tax bennies for being deployed there.
I’ve been to Kuwait, Qatar, Iraq, and Afghanistan – the first two for a few days each, the latter two for months each. Afghanistan and Iraq were bona fide combat zones where you could indeed get killed via hostile action – either on base or off. The first two? Um, no; on base you were just as safe as you would be on base in CONUS; off base, in most places the same was true. Your biggest risk in either place was getting killed in a traffic accident on the way to/from the airport/airfield at the beginning or end of your tour.
Kuwait/Qatar and most of the rest of the Arabian peninsula other than Yemen should have lost combat zone status in about 1992 IMO, regained it in late 2002 or early 2003, and lost combat zone status again by 2004. But they never did.
Why? Dunno. But I will observe that ARCENT HQ is located in Kuwait and CENTCOM FWD is located in Qatar – or at least they were in 2008. I’m pretty sure they still are.
December 16th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
#30: “Kuwait/Qatar and most of the rest of the Arabian peninsula other than Yemen should have lost combat zone status in about 1992 IMO, regained it in late 2002 or early 2003, and lost combat zone status again by 2004. But they never did.”
That is likely because of the enforcement of the northern and southern no-fly zones, and the occasional destruction of the Iraqi ADA.
December 16th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
Here’s one of the reasons the “idiots in the gun control debate” won’t include the viewpoint of those who see gun control as completely ineffective:
http://now.msn.com/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-says-mom-of-mentally-ill-son?gt1=50501
The Indiana man who threatens to set his wife on fire when she’s asleep and then take some of his many guns to a nearby school and shoot a lot of people is not a gun nut. He is someone who is out of control.
And let’s remember Jack the Ripper, the one person who committed gruesome crimes and was never caught, but twitted the police about what he was doing through his letters to them. He didn’t use a gun. He used a scalpel.
December 16th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
Jonn, when I was in Kuwait from December 2000 to April 2001, our task force also had the SOP of putting a piece of 100 mph tape over our magazines. It was retarded, but doesn’t necessarily mean that he was considered incompetent. That’s my 2¢. I can’t defend this guy’s position though
December 16th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
Yeah, I saw the 100 mph tape trick, too. On the East German border when we were issued ammo for patrols, but like I wrote above, it wasn’t to keep us from “accidental discharges” like Cole said. It was for accountability so the rounds wouldn’t fall out of the magazines and get lost and we’d go through the gymnastics of trying to find a loose round rolling around in the vehicle somewhere.
December 16th, 2012 at 6:45 pm
There is so much fail in this post I do not know where to begin.
First off, I was not required to tape my ammunition because I was a numbnuts, I was required to tape my ammunition because it was regimental policy. We were specifically told the tape (and it was not hundred mile an hour tape or duct tape, but a think green glossy strip of tape) was to prevent accidental shootings and to maintain round accountability. Everyone did it. Not just me. It was policy. And it wasn’t to keep sand out.
Think about that for a second for those of you who think it invalidates my argument- the military is so concerned about round accountability that they require trained soldiers to tape their ammo. Compare that to what you want, which is a free fire zone across the continental US.
Additionally, the entire time I was in the military, no matter what base I was on, we were not allowed to carry weapons into the PX, the bank, the church, the NCO club, or the mess hall. We would go as a group when in Graf or Hohenfels and one person would sit outside and guard all our UNLOADED weapons. We weren’t even carrying live ammo. Yet on secure military bases, there were “GUN FREE ZONES.” Think on that for a second.
Second, I called a magazine a clip because the people on my blog are not soldiers. They mostly would not understand what a magazine was, so I used the common vernacular that more people would understand.
Third, it is beyond me why anyone would think I was lying about having an M1911 .45 cal as my service weapon. I was trained on the 9mm at Knox, but when I got to Fulda, sure as shit, they gave me a .45. The first one the gave me rattled so god damned much that I told the armorer that I’m not sure I can throw this POS straight, much less fire it, and was issued a different weapon. I think I still have dents in my ribs from sleeping on the damned thing in my holster while in the driver’s seat of my tank.
Next, I have no idea what a counterfeit cavalrymen is, but all I know is that I went to basic training (actually OSUT- one station unit training, which combines basic and AIT) at Disney Barracks in Fort Knox in March of 1990. I completed the training, then shipped to Germany. I then served with the 11th ACR and did every single damned thing I was asked to do. I never missed a deployment, I never missed a training mission. I think I was a pretty real cavalry trooper. So do all the guys I served with.
I clearly stated in my post that AFTER OPERATION DESERT SHIELD AND DESERT STORM, I was stationed in Kuwait. I was not embellishing anything, just telling you exactly when I was there. I think it was called Operation Positive Force. I have no idea why any of you would think I am making it up.
After active duty, I went to school, and enrolled in a state run school and joined the National Guard as a Combat Engineer, because in my state, if you are in the Guard, they will pay your tuition and you get the GI Bill and ACF that you signed up for when you first enlisted in Active Duty. I spent a month at Devil’s Lake being reclassified to 12 Bravo. I did that for several years, and then became an instructor at MOS reclassification at Camp Dawson in Kingwood, WV, retraining people to leave other MOS’s and become 19 Kilos.
While on active duty and in the national guard, I qualified on a 120 smooth bore, a 105, a 9mm, an M1911, as well as Bangalore torpedoes, a .240, a .50 cal, and perhaps my favorite, the archaic 90mm recoilless rifle that my Guard unit had. Fire about five rounds from that thing and you will have a headache for 12 hours. Hell, I even fired a TOW on several occassions. I was not a cook. I was a soldier. I may not have had the firefight experience that many others here had, but again, I did everything I was ever asked and passed all the training. I am not a master marksman or gun afficionado, but I have been around guns. I grew up in rural West Virginia and everyone went to school with rifles in their trunks or trucks during hunting season.
So, no. I am not some unreasonable ideologue who wants to take away everyone’s guns. I want the assault rifle ban and a ban on these ridiculously large magazines which turn semi-automatic weapons into weapons of mass destruction. No one hunts with a bushmaster, and you can sport shoot with a ten round magazine just fine. I want to stop the insanity of people pretending the way to keep people safe is to have teachers packing heat. I want the background checks to be fully funded so that people with mental illnesses are reported to the database by the courts. I want to expand coverage for mentally ill people to hopefully prevent them from doing this kind of thing. I’d love to have rigorous training required before people can purchase a firearm, so they will respect them the same way all of you former soldiers do. I’m not worried about you guys, I know you know how to handle a weapon safely and smartly. Most of all, I want to stop reading about dead kids and watching parents cry on CNN.
If that makes me an idiot or an ideologue, so be it. I have no illusion that we will stop all gun violence, because must gun violence is in small numbers every day all over the country. But I don’t see why it is crazy or irrational to try to limit the devastation.
December 16th, 2012 at 7:01 pm
Cole you fraud-the 2nd amendment is about hunting the same way that the first amendment is about playing scrabble. The first time some psycho shoots up a school (or what have you) with shotguns pants pissers like you will be out screaming to grab them up as well. Whatever the military’s policy on carry may or may not be is irrelevant to the rights of free citizens. I intend to defend myself if necessary and I want the most effective tool for the job.
In fact after re-reading a large part of what you wrote it boils down to “I want to not haz a sad” and you want the gubmint to restrict the rights of free citizens to try to accomplish that. No thanks.
December 16th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
Yo, Mr. Balloon Knot
The Founders meant for us to be armed for many reasons, but also to prevent tyranny. Jefferson made this clear. The standard infantry rifle of the day was the musket, for all standing armies at the time. It’s pretty clear the founders wanted us to be armed enough for defense. Instead of whining about “assault” weapons, you should just be happy I’m not seeking out howitzers and M1A1s.
But seriously, what do you think these restrictions will do? Ban assault weapons, then there will be none? Maybe in the hands of law abiding citizens. Criminals will have them. Hell, Mexico has tight gun laws. How’s that working out for them?
Nobody wants to make the US a free fire zone. But overall millions of gun owners never have, never will kill anyone and should not be punished because of what bad people do.
Now, call me a gun nut and a pussy, like you did on your blog. I double dog dare ya.
December 16th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
@35.
“If there are bigger pussies in the world than gun nuts, I don’t know who the fuck they are.”
I’m not sure what a gun nut is. What’s your definition?
December 16th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
I don’t know why people get the idea that just because a gun is black and scary that it can’t be used for hunting. Since you mentioned Bushmaster I’ll link to the Bushy site. These are set up for hunting. In many kinds of hunting, particularly varmint, predator, and hog hunting, it’s advantageous to have a quick second (or more) shot. Just another mischaracterization by anti-gunners.
http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/hunting.asp
December 16th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
“We need to shame gun enthusiasts who put their penis extensions ahead of sensible gun laws that might help keep their fellow citizens alive. We need to make it so have an NRA sticker on your car is as toxic as claiming membership in the KKK.”
John Cole, 15 December 2012
December 16th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
“Yet the same fucking assholes who enable this kind of stuff are now going to tell us all that now is not the time to talk about gun control (lest we “politicize it”) and that we need more guns to keep this from happening again.”
John Cole, 14 December 2012
December 16th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
“If there was any justice in the world, Wayne LaPierre would choke to death on filet mignon at the next NRA fundraiser.”
John Cole 14 December 2012
December 16th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
“At some point, you might just wonder if maybe the military had a reason for not turning Benghazi into fucking My Lai village.”
John Cole 26 October 2012
December 16th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
On the Florida Zimmerman case:
“Is there some sort of catch and release program down in Florida? Unarmed black minors are off limits, but unarmed black adults are fair game for cowboy wanna-be cops who want to play with their guns?
“You fucking shot him to death for the crime of walking while black in your neighborhood.”
John Cole, 20 April 2012
December 16th, 2012 at 7:43 pm
John Cole is a raging lunatic.
December 16th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
@35 “If that makes me an idiot or an ideologue, so be it”. Well, Cole, judging by what AirCav has exerpted from your blog, I’d have to say that you are, indeed, an idiot and an ideologue.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
So, let’s play a game. A gun nut is at the school when the shooter arrives. The gun nut pulls a firearm and dispatches the shooter before he takes two steps toward the classroom.
Now, let’s change the game. Another fellow, let’s call him John, is visiting the school when the shooter arrives. He is powerless to do anything. He is defenseless. He runs. The shooter does what the actual shooter did. John is glad that he had no gun. More guns is no answer.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
Air Cav-yeah, I love that one. Point out that maybe a man has a duty to fight evil and they mock you as a “tuff gai”. Point out that possession of a firearm makes it possible for you to do just that and you are a “pussy”.
Lefties are dishonest to their core.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
No, “Baloon Juice”, you had tape on your magazine because you were untrained and your so-called “leadership” didn’t trust you or themselves to have you running around with a live round chambered. And guarding some useless facility in Doha really should embarass you.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
I knew you’d come by sooner or later, John Cole. There was tape on your magazine so gravity didn’t swipe your ammo before you handed it off to the next guy. Not for gun control or “accidental discharges” as you claim. And if you have to change the language of the discussion (clips instead of magazines) for your readers, you’re writing for people who don’t know enough to discuss the issue intelligently. And you’re doing them no service by bringing the discussion down to their ignorance.
And no one here is claiming they need scary black rifles for hunting. In fact I took my scary black rifles out “not hunting” the other day. I had a ball. I came back with a whole new look on life. I passed some schools on the way and I didn’t shoot them up, either. Today I ordered some more high capacity magazines while I can, because I can. By the way, I’m pretty sure that weapons dealers across the country are having a Merry Christmas this year, thanks to you ideologues and your incessant blather about disarming law abiding Americans like me.
If I am an ideologue, it’s because pointy-headed hand-wringers like you made me so. And the worst part of it is that despite your incessant blather, you don’t really care about the deaths of 20 children, what you really care about is how the deaths of 20 children made YOU feel sad. So, like a good little liberal pants wetter, you don’t want to feel that way again, so you target law-abiding Americans so YOU can feel better. So YOU can say YOU did something. regardless of the fact that what you want to do will accomplish nothing in the larger scheme of your intentions.
So go back to your ignorant readers and feed them like the chirping little birdies they are with your ignorant blather that you have to dumb down in order for them to understand. How you can sleep at night and shave in the morning, I’ll never understand. But keep your stupid little war stories out of it.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:29 pm
Cole: if you never were allowed to carry your weapon into a mess hall (in today’s vernacular, the DFAC) – then you never served in a no-shit combat zone. In Iraq and Afghanistan, one did exactly that – you took your weapon with you to the DFAC. You carried your weapon to the gym, too (if you were on a base big enough to have one and lucky enough to have time to use it). Ditto the PX, to finance (which served as the local bank for cashing checks), and to chapel. And to the shitter. And to your place of duty. And every freaking place else you went. Along with your ammo.
In fact, you carried it to your hooch and slept with the damn thing, too – along with your ammo. About the only time you turned both in in was when you went on R&R.
You kept your ammo with you in untaped magazines, too – sometimes in the weapon, sometimes not, depending on weapons status. Why untaped? Because you just might need to use them pronto, sunshine.
And I wouldn’t swear to it, but I’m almost positive you’re wrong about mess halls and weapons. I seem to remember carrying my weapon into mess halls at both Fort Bragg and Fort Campbell while participating in FTXs during the 1980s on those rare occasions where I was in garrison for a meal due to my duties. That’s been at least 25 years now, so I could be mis-remembering things. But I really don’t think I am.
One last point: your comparison above of the way soldiers are treated vis-a-vis the rest of the US is irrelevant, too. Soldiers are required to follow orders – even stupid ones – provided they’re not unlawful orders (stupid does not equate to unlawful). In most cases, the rest of the populace has much more leeway to do as they please. That’s kinda why we call it a “free society”.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
As I have said in a couple of threads; the bedwetters don’t want a discussion on guns, they want a ban on guns, plain and simple. When dumbfucks start babbling about high capacity “clips” and “assault weapons”, I know they don’t have a fucking clue what they are talking about. They think they do, but when they can’t even get the terminology right, it makes it hard to take anything they have to say seriously. They are uninformed, or misinformed, and are too intellectually lazy to get the proper information. If they want an honest discussion about guns, then they should at least be educated enough to have the discussion in the first place.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:38 pm
@51: We were on our way to participate in a FTX and had to stop in Lawton to pick up some cannon cockers. When we unassed the aircraft and were walking into the airport, the security guard told us we couldn’t bring our weapons into the airport. Our XO looked at him and said “yeah, right” and we kept walking. We were CONUS and still kept our weapons with us.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
@35
Yet on secure military bases, there were “GUN FREE ZONES.” Think on that for a second.
Oh, you mean like the one where MAJ Hasan (umm, cough, “allegedly”) murdered 13 people, including a pregnant woman, in November 2009?
Yeah, those gun-free zones; brilliant idea.
December 16th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
This is for John Cole, who apparently doesn’t have a clue about assault weapons and what they consist of.
The following items are assault weapons:
Pike – a spear used in combat by foot soldiers
Sword – a long-shafted edged weapon with a hilt and pommel used in combat by both horse and foot soldiers
Horse – an animal used in combat to transport a mounted, armed and armored soldier, frequently wears armor and weighs as much as 4500 pounds (e.g., Shire horse); also used to transport carriage weapons such as carriage cannons
Arrow – a wooden or metal shafted weapon with a bodkin (sharply pointed) head, used for both hunting by hunterd, and in combat by archers
Bow – a means of firing said arrows
Crossbow – a means of firing an arrow or bolt, constructed to create a higher speed by using a trigger to release the bowstring
Morningstar – a metal or wooden shaft with a spiked ball at the head, used in a fight as a club
Mace – a metal or wooden shaft with spiked metal balls on chains at the head, used in a fight as a club
Stiletto/dagger — short-shafted edged weapon used for close combat and for eating
Slingshot – a weapon consisting of two double thongs or strings with a saddle in the middle, used for launching rocks at a target; effective in combat if user is properly trained
Rocks – ammunition for a slingshot but may be used without one
Quarterstaff — a straightened and hardened sapling, preferably oak or hickory, used in hand-to-hand combat in a ring or as a walking staff, about 60+ inches in length
All of the items mentioned above are weapons that have been used in combat since they were invented, going back to the earliest periods in history when people fought each other in wars. I did not include the chariot, siege tower or ballista, because they are either not in general use, or not easily portable. For a quarterstaff bout, refer to the combat between Gandalf and Saruman in LOTR-Two Towers.
All of these items can be seen at any Renaissance Faire and some of them, such as the sword, slingshot, quarterstaff, mace and morningstar can be bought from a competent arms smith. They are all legal, they do not require a license, and they all fall into the category of assault weapons. The RenFaires generally require that all weapons are to be peace-tied if you wear them to the Faire property.
So are they to be included in the idiotic assault weapons ban? Anyone who has been around horses can tell you a horse can kick the crap out of you as well as trample you to death.
I’ve said this before, and I will say it again: ANYTHING can be turned into an assault weapons, including common kitchen and household items such as a cast iron skillet, so are these moronic panicky dingbats going to ban cast iron skillets, just because I know how to use one on a burglar?
I’m serious about this. This is ridiculous.
These repeated panic attacks over something that take these clowns by surprise, scares the bejeesus out of them, sends them running for the hills, clearly indicates that not one of these bozos congress who are howling for an assault weapons ban has the faintest idea what an assault weapon is.
Should I send a list to them? Okay, here we go — common household objects:
cooking spray (flammable)
dental floss (garroting material)
meat cleaver (ouch!)
butcher knife (ouch!)
paring knife (ouchy!)
hot grits in a saucepan (ooo! ooo! Hot ! Hot!)
cast iron skillet (OW!!)
kitchen mallet, with the pointy teeth (nasty!)
vacuum cleaner (don’t get me started)
sugar (mixed with alcohol, burns and sticks)
onions (makes yours eyes water – chemical weapon)
scissors (ouchy!)
cans of Fancy Feast (weighs the same as a small rock)
cat kibble (pellets)
all-purpose flour (blinding)
I can go on forever.
Yeah, I posted this elsewhere, too, and the point is that anything can be used as an assault weapon, including furniture. I still get a huge giggle out of the sword fight in “Prisoner of Zenda” where the bad guy asks the Englishman “Where did you learn to fight with furniture? I could never understand how to do that.”
December 16th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
I see I left used cat litter off my list. Durn!
December 16th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
@51 Finally someone said it. One caveat, that is FOBs in AFG where our NATO elements had mayor-cell duties, the Gyms were strangely no-weapons areas (circa 09-11)
December 16th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
Ex-PH2 you left off the dangerous and deadly dihydrogen monoxide. That stuff needs to be banned immediately!
December 16th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
Oh, yes! I completely forgot the kitchen water sprayer! Right in your face! Thank you!!!!!
December 16th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
Yeah, it’s a completely shocking development that you write a semi-literate post about me riddled with lies and inaccuracies, and horror of horrors, I showed up to correct the record.
No mention of all the lies you told, and a continued insistence that “gravity” was the reason for the tape on the rounds, rather than the reason we were told when we were there. You can’t even admit you have no fucking clue what you were talking about regarding my service .45, so I don’t expect much from you and your cohort.
Keep living inside your bubble, buddy. And I hope your children and loved ones are never victims of the gun violence you continue to enable. Have a good life.
December 16th, 2012 at 9:20 pm
“I want the assault rifle ban and a ban on these ridiculously large magazines which turn semi-automatic weapons into weapons of mass destruction.” John Cole in post #35
Any rifle is an assault rifle when used in an assault. Brown Bess, 58 Springfield, M1 Garand, Remington, Marlin, Henry – from single shot to a few shots, any rifle used in an assault is, by definition, an assault rifle.
Commmon method of deceit is to use adjectives to elicit horror. In this case “assault.” Doing this is fundamentally dishonest rhetoric – a hallmark of all Prognazis.
December 16th, 2012 at 9:25 pm
“And I hope your children and loved ones are never victims of the gun violence you continue to enable.”
He needs to be punched in the mouth for that one.
December 16th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Mr. Cole, I don’t know you, and never read your work, not once. But if the article cited in this blog is any indication, I think i’d rather poke my eyeballs out with red hot glowing shishkabob skewers. I bet you’re real popular over at the Derpocratic Underbelly. I’ve posed this question before, and so far I have yet to hear an answer from one of you gun grabbing panty waists. When the ARMED first responders arrived on scene with their BIG, SCARY GUNS, why didn’t they just pick up where the shooter left off? They were all armed, and according to sub human morons like yourself that’s all anyone who owns a gun,or carries a gun wants to do, right? Dumbass.
December 16th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
Do these anti-gun people have any conception of what the world was like BEFORE guns existed? Massive armies of armored men and armored horses who had all been literally trained since birth in the use of armor and weapons, all equipped with swords and spears capable of inflicting the most horrific and brutal dismemberment and death, and all of them at the command of rulers who could use them however they pleased. If you weren’t lucky enough to have been born into this class of warriors, then you were property or close to it and you had no chance in hell of ever defending yourself if the people with the power felt like coming after you. This is how it was for thousands and thousands of years.
December 16th, 2012 at 9:41 pm
[...] If you really want to look into the mind of the semi-literate gun nut, I would really recommend this thread. [...]
December 16th, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Right on cue Cole posts a thread with the “tough guy” slur a prominent aspect-so fucking predictable. Gear up, his minions will be here shortly.
December 16th, 2012 at 9:50 pm
Cole is a tough guy. Just ask him, he’ll tell ya.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:00 pm
@66. Yeah, the two dozen worldwide should be here soon.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:08 pm
Let me ask you craven, pathetic, cowardly, paranoid idiots a questions: Which is the better scenario? That every single adult in that school had been armed and one of them was perhaps able to kill the shooter after he shot only one or two kids or that (try to wrap your very small minds around this) the shooter DID NOT HAVE A GUN IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Thank you, John Cole. Sorry to say, but these despicable, ignorant fools will never get it. Their right to bear arms (a right they don’t even understand) will always trump everybody else’s right to keep their children safe.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
Here come the Leftist trolls, by the way.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
If we can stop just one liberal from his errant ways, that will be enough. They’ve all ready disarmed themselves. That’s helpful, given their erratic behavior and cockeyed thinking. But if one lucid and level-headed lib visits here, reads closely, and actually thinks, he may be the very one who, some time in the future, is able to stop a rape or a robbery of someone he loves or, even, a stranger. There is always hope. We can’t save them all. They are hellbent on being victims. But if we can save just one…
December 16th, 2012 at 10:13 pm
Hey-right on cue. Mary, I would prefer that people have the capacity to defend themselves/ Big, bad scary guns aren’t going away-ever. Evil people are here to stay as well, it’s better for individuals to have the right to resist them whenever possible.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:13 pm
Okay, looks like old Mary the Occutard isn’t the one to be saved. Next!
December 16th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
@72. They don’t use reason, so logic doesn’t work. You need to find an emotional trigger to reach them. Well, maybe trigger isn’t the right word…
December 16th, 2012 at 10:15 pm
Ah, Mary! Just a question. Did you bother to read the part in the news about the fact that Adam Lanza, whom you label ‘the shooter’ so as to distance yourself from it, did not actually have a gun of his own, but instead, stole three of his mother’s guns and shot her in the head four times with one of HER guns, before he went to the school and started shooting children and teachers?
Did you bother to read THAT part of the news?
Of course not. That part is the inconvenient truth — that the ‘shooter’ did not actually have a gun, because he was under age.
He STOLE the guns that he used. He STOLE them from HIS MOTHER, DUMBASS. And he used his MOTHER’S guns to KILL HIS MOTHER.
You don’t actually have to own a gun in order to use one. Got that part, numbskull?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
Girlfight! Take it Ex-PH2!
December 16th, 2012 at 10:17 pm
#69 just went full, pants on head retarded.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:19 pm
“Gear up, his minions will be here shortly.”
–Speaking only for myself, I just showed up to point and laugh at you reprobates.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
So, the logic here is that banning guns wouldn’t stop ALL gun violence, so we can’t do it? Regulating guns wouldn’t do it either, so we can’t do that, right? Does that mean to not have laws against murder? A law has to be 100% effective in order to be useful at all?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
Damn, you people suck ass hard.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
Okay, that’s two. Ten to go–if the worldwide John Cole fan club is paying attention. Of course, I have no way of knowing how many will simply change their screen names to puff up their participation numbers.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
Wasn’t in the old army but every deployment I have been on thus far, as soon as we got to the unit we were replacing, we were promptly handed cans of ammo, grenades, claymores, C4, and all minds of ahit that wasn’t “on the books”. I can’t imagine getting ran through the wringer for losing a single 5.56 round
December 16th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
All kinds of shit, sorry
December 16th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
I’m suspecting same IP addresses now. There is hope for Bethany. She seems to be thinking.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
AirCav, you got it! And I bet Mary the Twit doesn’t come back.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:25 pm
“So, the logic here is that banning guns wouldn’t stop ALL gun violence, so we can’t do it?” I didn’t say she was thinking clearly, only that she seems to be thinking. You have created the classic strawman argument Bethany. Wanna try again?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:26 pm
When I was at Doha (the Kuwait one) I didn’t have to carry on-post, but second I went off, I was Red. Every vehicle mandated at least 2 shooters. I carried EVERYWHERE there. Even the airport.
In Iraq, I had 2. M4 plus M9. Slept with them. Only turned in for RnR. I could stack-arm the M4 in the palace while working, but if I went beyond the latrine I had to carry.
Its a combat zone if your grenades are carried with them not just in a box. Hell I can open carry in Colorado not much different than I did in Kuwait.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:27 pm
Why are these people always so fixated on reducing gun deaths, when there are so many other kinds of deaths that are so much more common? Do you really care about protecting people…or is it that you only care about protecting people from certain things and not other things? Why is that? Why are they so selfish as to fixate on the things THEY find scary (mass shootings) but utterly ignore the countless other mundane and eminently preventable deaths?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:28 pm
BethanyAnne-the logic is that “banning all guns” would only impair the law abiding. You’ve equated murder, the ultimate act of aggression against another (that’s why we punish murderers), with the harmless act of owning an inanimate object. I don’t expect any law to be 100% useful, but gun grabberism wouldn’t be useful to anyone except thugs.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:29 pm
@88. See Jonn’s comment #50, para #3. He boxed it quite nicely.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
Well, I just don’t understand the logic of Ex-PH2′s statements. “The shooter broke the law by stealing his guns, so laws restricting gun ownership won’t work at all”. It seems to me that they may work sometimes. I don’t see how a law that prevents, say, 20% of gun violence would be a bad thing.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
Haha…these trolls even fail at trolling.
just like they fail at trying to explain the 2nd Amendment (durrrrrrr, it meant u can haz muskits!) and why we should have gun control.
FAIL, FAIL, FAIL.
John Cole, you are a NO GO at this station. Do some pushups!
December 16th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
Vermont has open carry throughout the state and yet no mass murder incidents-why do you think that is?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:31 pm
I think that the lack of education is more bothersome than anything else. You can give these people all the data and statistics that show how futile gun control laws really are, and they blow it all off because it isn’t what they want to hear or see.
So it’s easy to ignore Breivik’s murder spree on the Norwegian island in 2011, with a captive audience of victims who were trying to get away from him. Norway has the strictest gun control laws in the world. Go figure.
Ditto England — highest violent crime rate in Europe and rising.
To set things straight, murder IS against the law, but that does not stop people from committing murder in various and sundry ways on a regular basis. And they frequently do that without using guns.
Oh, and while I’m at it, methamphetamines are a controlled, illegal substance, but it doesn’t stop people from making meth and using it, does it?
No, it doesn’t. If you weren’t so completely brain dead, you’d understand that.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
Well Bethany most if not all schools are designated as gun free zones, so how did this happen?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
I’ve always felt that every time someone uses a gun in a situation like the one in Newtown it reflects negatively on the pro-gun community. That community consistently claims that its members are responsible and well trained. Well that seemed to apply to the shooter’s mother — and even the shooter — until it didn’t.
I had a student tell me today that he was thinking of getting a gun. I told him that it would be the death of him. And that’s what makes comments like the one above about “liberals have disarmed themselves” so stupid. There are numerous ways to defend yourself and stay safe, particularly if you are an adult. Having a gun is one of the least effective ways. A gun is not loyal. Anyone can use it to shoot you.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
@91. Okay, Bethany, I’ll buy that. You are TRYING. And which guns are responsible for 20% of the mass murders?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
So, your contention is that making something, say meth, illegal does *nothing* to restrict it?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Clayton. When you start a comment with, “I’ve always felt…,” you lose your potential readership here. Try thinking.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Did prohibition restrict alcohol? NOPE!
December 16th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Bullshit Clayton-someone may one day use my gun to kill me, but they’ll have to beat me to death with it, because it will be empty.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
Wow… Cole wasn’t kidding. That’s quite a circle jerk you boys have going there. Internet tough guys FTW.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
2-17 Air Cav, perhaps the ones that get into the hands of crazy people? That wouldn’t have helped in this case, but didn’t the Gabby Giffords shooter buy his own? And didn’t he have a history of mental illness, including being hospitalized? So, maybe a reasonable place to start would be mental health background checks on all gun sales?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
“He STOLE the guns that he used. He STOLE them from HIS MOTHER, DUMBASS. And he used his MOTHER’S guns to KILL HIS MOTHER.”
I wonder whether it would be reasonable to suggest that if the guy’s mother hadn’t had any guns, then he couldn’t have stolen hers? Yeah, yeah, there would always be somebody else he could have gotten it from, but it would have made it just a little harder for him; it might have taken him just a little bit longer to get a gun. In that time, there is at least a chance that somebody might have stopped him somehow.
You idiots whine about how, yes, some asshole killed a lot of people in Norway, where they have gun laws far stronger than those we have. True enough. But, shit, how often do we have these massacres? Every year? A few times a year? I can’t keep up with them. When was the last time before that Norweigan KKK guy shot all those people that anything like that happened in Norway? Anybody?
Sure, people can kill with knives, swords, pikes and even iron frying pans. But try killing 27 people with a frying pan–or even a sword or crossbow–before somebody wrestles you down. We’ll never stop every slaughter like this. That isn’t the point. The point is to cut down on these awful sprees. The point is to make it harder. By the thinking here, there’s no point to having seat belt laws, since you can still die in a wreck with your seat belt on. Seat belts won’t keep every driver and rider alive through every wreck, but it’ll keep a lot of them alive. That’s the point. But you assholes will never understand that.
There’s a reason that 3 times as many people die every year from gunshots than died on September 11, 2001, and it isn’t because you don’t need a license to buy a frying pan. This reason is related to the reason that only about 100 or 200 people die from shootings in the U.K. I’d suggest that you idiots think about that, but thinking clearly isn’t something you do too well, so I won’t ask you to tax yourselves.
I’ll say it again: You people suck ass hard.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
@98. Now, Beth. You made a statement. I asked a question. Did you attempt to anser it? No, you went off in a different direction. Take a deep breath and try again.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
“Why are they so selfish as to fixate on the things THEY find scary (mass shootings) but utterly ignore the countless other mundane and eminently preventable deaths?”
–Because after having just about every prominent physician and climate scientist telling you that childhood obesity and climate change are really pressing problems which will have nation-wide implications, only to be met with cries of, “Broccoli Mandate” and “AlGore is fat!”, it’s become obvious that you’re not capable of being approached like adults. So tonight I will pray for a well-timed aneurism in either Thomas or Scalia so that we can simply roll back recent SCOTUS precedent. I will also pray for a giant bucket to collect all your tears when it happens. Amen
December 16th, 2012 at 10:37 pm
“So, your contention is that making something, say meth, illegal does *nothing* to restrict it?”
Only to the law abiding-I want the law abiding to be able to defend themselves as they see fit.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:38 pm
@99, in many cases, as in the one in my comment, think and feel are synonymous. But if it helps the readership here, please substitute “I’ve always found that . . .”
Does that help?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:38 pm
Gun ownership = instant death? Nah, I don’t see it.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:39 pm
Okay, hope remains, however slight. Where did the 20% come from Beth?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:39 pm
My wife had a close friend over today and she was telling us about her recent divorce. She said she wasn’t going miss him that much as he was “hung like an NRA member.” Bad news, fellas. The word is out.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:40 pm
No guns are responsible. There’s your answer. Guns are simply tools. Quite lethal tools that should be restricted heavily.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:40 pm
@#101 So that’s your plan? You’ll use your empty gun to defend yourself?
Sounds plausible.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:40 pm
@108. So, if I look up either think or feel in a thesaurus, I should find one when I look up the other. Um, that’s a no go, Clay.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Zapruder F. Mashtots, D.D.S.
Pipe bombs are easy to make. A resourceful lunatic could make a dozen or so and meander through a school murdering to his sick heart’s content. Of course I would prefer that someone there shoot him dead first, but that apparently makes you uncomfortable.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
@111
“Mantooth”…suuuure, I believe you have a wife.
What’s his name?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Bethany…ever had your life threatened? Ever wish the threat presented to you could be stopped cold in its tracks?
Might I suggest a reading of John Lott…you might learn something.
Oh, and how many shootings were in Chicago, DC, NYC, and LA since Friday?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:42 pm
No, no, no, Bethany. Again, your reply is altogether nonresponsive. I can’t have a give and take if you keep changing up. Is there some statement other than the vulgar ones some of your little group are making that you would like to share?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:43 pm
You forgot to point out that Camp Doha has never been “dangerous” . And certainly not more dangerous than Major cities in the US. Hell I am pretty sure if you do the math for comparing population size to murders and deployed soldiers at any given time to death frequency I am sure you will find that the death rate (for murder or combat) per population is actualy highern major united states cities.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:43 pm
Clayton-do you understand why my gun would be empty in the first place (hint, it’s because I will have expended my rounds trying to shoot you first). In any event, I can always try to use my empty gun to bash your skull in, but you may be bigger and stronger than I am and take it from me-ah well, the gun would have at least given me the chance to successfully defend myself.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
In re making something such as meth illegal does nothing to restrict it?
Since the manufacture and use of meth is on the rise, in spite of its illegal status and its physical destruction of the user’s brain and body, whether it is illegal or not has become a moot point. In fact, the production and use of meth has become an expensive medical problem because it not only causes extensive damage to the human body, it also causes hallucinations which are as difficult to eliminate as those caused by the use of PCP, a horse tranquilizer.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:45 pm
Well, if you ask “how many” and I respond with “none”, and you call that nonresponsive, then I can’t help you.
And I assume that I would be quite awful with a gun while someone was threatening my life, NHSparky. I might fuck up quite royally, and a person intent on harming me might just take it away while I was stressed and trying to do the right thing. Nope, not for me.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:45 pm
@114 I’d actually like to see you do that — look up a word in a thesaurus. I would likely be entertaining.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:45 pm
Now, 68W58, let’s not be rude to our vulgar guests. They are uber sensitive and, besides, Bethany is a good egg. I do believe she wants to understand.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
If the government wanted to protect its citizens, it wouldn’t be arming Mexican drug cartels and breaking Mexican law! All of you trolls forget about that! And Nanny Bloomberg never leaves without armed thugs. So take your ignorant hypocracy elsewhere.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
See how well the cities that have banned more guns are doing, Bethany, vis-a-vis crime rates.
They’re doing REAL well.
The critical issue in this story is mental health and how society deals with the seriously ill, not guns.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
“I would likely be entertaining.” Freudian slip? I can accure you, Clay, you are quite entertaining. I’m missing an NFL game right now just to have a laugh, thanks, in part, to you.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
BethanyAnne-or he might run at the sight of it. At least you would not have to trust completely to his questionable mercy, though you apparently seem to prefer that option.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
@120 Ah, I see. You admit you are a very poor shot.
And there is really no need to imagine that it is me you are missing with your precious gun. I promise to never put you in that embarrassing position.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
If what I said in #121 is not clear, try this: whether or not something is illegal is immaterial. Laws do not stop lawbreakers.
Use of heroin is illegal, but people still shoot up.
Use of cocaine is illegal, but people still snort it.
Human trafficking is illegal, but that has not stopped the sex/flesh trade.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
JP,
Homosexual panic doesn’t really work on this crowd. Calling someone a fag doesn’t carry any weight. It’s pretty predictable on your part though. Enjoy the next few years of Obama in the White House.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
Okay, so far Bethany is the only one with some semblance of value and hope. But she appears to have made an early exit. Maybe she’s googling, “How to attack 2nd amendment supporters” and will return later.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:50 pm
Carrying mace is the option I actually prefer. No one can take it away and kill me with it.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
Chainsaws are lethal tools too BethanyAnne-but both they and guns are useful to the law abiding.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:52 pm
So you do prefer to arm yourself-good. You know you can get less lethal rounds for your firearm too, right?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:52 pm
@131. He’s in the White House for a few years? Hell, he’s been president for nearly four and hasn’t spent more than a month there to date! Those links and fundraisers, don’t you know.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Wow, you really are a pussy.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Okay BethanyAnne…but just because YOU’D fuck it up royally doesn’t mean the other 80 million gun owners in this country and millions of CCW holders would. And as such, your shortcomings should have no influence on those of us who choose to responsibly exercise our Constitutional RIGHT.
Let me say that again…RIGHT. Not your alleged rights like free shit paid for by someone else, etc. Do try to not get confused over that.
Oh, and Molon Labe, fuckers. I’m tired of you fucking bleating like the sheep you are.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
@127 Preview and edit would be nice, but this seems to be a low rent joint. So, I will restate, again, just for you: It would likely be entertaining.”
I still don’t think you could actually do it.
And isn’t there some fancy gadget that lets you watch the TV you want when you want, even if you get off to a late start?
December 16th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
#122, That’s why when you carry, you train. Alot.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
“Carrying mace is the option I actually prefer. No one can take it away and kill me with it.” Okay, my hope is now vanished. Bethany, what if those teachers at Sandy Hook had mace? Perhaps one or two actually did. Do yourself a favor. Move to Idaho or buy a gun and learn how to use it.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
I guess the entirety of John Cole’s online readership (all 8 of them making several sockpuppets each, most likely) took the title literally, thinking that Jonn rolled out the virtual red carpet for all of the aforementioned “Idiots in the gun control debate” to come in and put on a show.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
Clayton-firefights often result in many missed shots. There are numerous videos of cops and bad guys exchanging dozens of rounds without any hits, the adrenaline is pumping it is difficult to hit a target that is moving or shooting back. At least I would have the option to defend myself-which is what you would take away from me-no thanks.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
#89 ““banning all guns” would only impair the law abiding.”
In that case, Nancy Lanza would not have any gun and Adam would not have been able to load them into his car en 20 children woud still be alive. I don’t think those 20 children and their families would find that an ‘impairment’
December 16th, 2012 at 10:56 pm
@133 — A spray bottle of perfume works just as well as mace and is less likely to burn your eyes if you aim it upwind.
Hair spray is equally effective.
In fact, anything that is aerosolized when sprayed is an effective weapon of self-defense, as is a heavy purse or a phone camera with a strobe flash.
Your ignorance of self-defense methods prompts me to suggest that you take a plain old self-defense class at a dojo some day soon. Also, might be a good idea to learn to yell loudly and angrily. Muggers don’t like troublemakers.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:56 pm
@139. That is not restating what you wrote, Clay. That is an altogether different statement. Now, I’ll ask you what I asked Bethany. Is there something you would like to say, other than, “Guns are bad, okay?”
December 16th, 2012 at 10:57 pm
The mother had a gun. Someone took it away and killed her with it, 2-17 Air Cav. Personally, I don’t care if the solution is to restrict gun ownership, or to increase taxes and spend that on mental health care. I think the amount of violence we have using guns is a problem, and I’d like to do something to solve it.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:58 pm
Polder…bans only work on the law-abiding. FYI.
December 16th, 2012 at 10:59 pm
I’m liberal and I am not for banning guns. I’m the only person in my family who does not have a gun but I certainly know how to work one. I do not believe that law abiding citizens should have their guns taken away.
What I think we need to be talking about is gun safety. Connecticut has an assault rifle ban and strict background search regulations. They do not, however, require gun locks. Would it be such a bad thing if laws were implemented to require gun locks? It might have prevented this shooter from stealing his mother’s guns or stalled him long enough that his mother could have stopped him or called for help.
That, to me, is the responsible kind of debate we need to be having. What kind of safety regulations can we put into place to minimize accidental deaths and reduce the risk of the wrong person getting your guns? And who should possibly lose the right to bear arms because of previous criminal action? If the legal system can take away your driver’s license for irresponsible driving, why shouldn’t they be able to take away your guns if you’ve been convicted of a violent felony? That sounds like a good foundation for gun control, really gun safety, regulations.
I do think regulating magazine size should be part of the debate. It is not the entirety of it but I think it should be discussed. How much ammunition do you really need in your gun at any time to protect yourself? If other regulations have a greater impact on gun violence, we need to figure out what they are and push for those.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:00 pm
Polderboy-as I pointed out above, pipe bombs are easy to make and a murderous lunatic could just as easily make several and toss them in classrooms killing dozens. I would prefer that teachers or principals be able to shoot him first, but you guys just can’t get behind that.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:01 pm
Clayton said:
“There are numerous ways to defend yourself and stay safe, particularly if you are an adult. Having a gun is one of the least effective ways.”
I’m shaking my head at that one. Truly one of the oddest claims I’ve ever seen made, even in one of these gun discussions. What methods of defense are more effective than having a gun?
Why do police carry sidearms if there are more effective means of defense out there?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
@144 — Just how do you know that Lanza could not have found another source? According to the news reports, he was a very intelligent student. He very likely took chemistry in high school. Chemistry classes have all kinds of materials that, when mixed together, make amazing explosions.
Magnesium, for example, burns bright white and hot. Copper burns green and hot. Sodium, yellow. When you mix two common household products together, you get a gas bomb, and the labels tell you DO NOT MIX THIS WITH THAT for a very good reason. Just how difficult do you think it would be for a very bright, if dysfunctional and antisocial young man to poison his mother and then go to the school and do the same thing? Or even go so far as to construct a few pipe bombs and throw them through the school windows?
Or are you really so dumb and naive that you just don’t get that part?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
@146 You don’t understand preview and edit options? There are none here. I made a clear typo and you think you can look up words in a thesaurus. I know this is your gang, but do they even think you can do that? You you the “brains” around here or something?
If you are a responsible adult, you don’t need a gun. If you are law enforcement, a gun is part of you work. Admit that they are not tools to you — they are toys — very dangerous toys — dangerous to you and everyone around you.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:04 pm
“I think the amount of violence we have using guns is a problem, and I’d like to do something to solve it.” Aha! Now we’re talking! We don’t like violence here either, Bethany. In fact, if you find a military Veteran who says he enjoys violence, you found one who needs some help. The fact is that there are people with guns who should not have them. Most get them illegally. Taking guns away from the lawabiding and sane gun owners actually increases the potential for violence from among the others. That’s why crime rates are lower where people are free to carry guns. Good so far or does that hurt too much?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:05 pm
@143 — Now you’ve completely changed things. I thought you were shooting at me, “a liberal who has willing disarmed” myself.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:06 pm
#148 Nancy was a law-abiding citizen, Adam was too. You are proofing my point
December 16th, 2012 at 11:06 pm
“If you are law enforcement, a gun is part of you work…” when you need help in seconds, the police are only minutes away. I don’t cede my right to defend myself to anyone else, thanks.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:07 pm
@153. It’s just my way of tossing you to the side, Clay. It’s nothing personal but I have this odd feeling that you might anger me so I choose to deal with you no longer. And, no, most of the regulars are off soing other things. (Probably cleaning their guns, eh?) Feel free to drop back during normal business hours. That’s Monday through Friday, roughly 9a.m. to 5 p.m.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
Adam Lanza was a law abiding citizen?! Did you really just post that?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
And just to make sure that I’m getting my point across, a common garden annual flowering plant has enough potassium nitrate in its leaves to explode when the dried leaves are thrown onto a fire.
Potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfur are the primary ingredients in gunpowder.
How about that?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
“@143 — Now you’ve completely changed things. I thought you were shooting at me, “a liberal who has willing disarmed” myself.”
It’s a saying Clayton, a truism if you will, I know that you are completely ignorant of these matters, but do try to keep up.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
PowerPoint Ranger, there is no need to do a blind guess. Here are traffic estimates for both sties:
Ballon Juice: http://www.trafficestimate.com/www.balloon-juice.com
This aint hell: http://www.trafficestimate.com/thisainthell.us
December 16th, 2012 at 11:09 pm
Thisainthell.us has a three-month global Alexa traffic rank of 281,063. Compared with the overall internet population, this site appeals more to users who have no postgraduate education; its audience also tends to consist of childless men earning over $30,000. Approximately 68% of visits to the site are bounces (one pageview only). Visitors to Thisainthell.us spend approximately three minutes per visit to the site and 61 seconds per pageview. Search engines refer approximately 10% of visits to the site.
Balloon-juice.com has a three-month global Alexa traffic rank of 73,085. Approximately 59% of visits to the site are bounces (one pageview only). We estimate that 83% of visitors to the site come from the US, where it has attained a traffic rank of 12,602, and the site is relatively popular among users in the cities of Knoxville (where it is ranked #641) and Albuquerque (#784). Balloon-juice.com has been online since 2003.
I tried to chart your relative reach but Alexa can’t be bothered with sites this dusty and ignored.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
Sure Adam was a law-abiding citizen, until he started his killing spree. What’s so difficult to understand about that?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
@158 Oh, now you’ve gone and hurt my feelings.
I’ll go sit in the corner and cry my liberal tears while the rest of you clean your guns and snicker.
Yeah, that’s it.
I even left another typo for you Brains.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:13 pm
And Robert @149 made a good point — gun safety is more important than gun control. Locks on guns might have delayed Adam Lanza enough to give his mother time to get in his way and/or call the police.
When the Chicago Police Dept asks people to turn in guns in exchange for ‘whatever’, they put locking straps on the guns to keep them from being fired.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:13 pm
LMAO. I had no idea I was dealing with you drooling morons.
Clowns. I’ve been wasting my time trying to engage you. Now that I know who you are, I’ll just ignore your babble.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
Polderboy-and until he started his killing spree his guns were not an issue. Once he started his killing spree the means he used to accomplish his evil ends are irrelevant, his decision to commit murder is what matters here, he had dozens of means at his disposal.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
@161 It’s ok. I can keep up just fine. I hope you have pleasant dreams of shooting at(and missing!) me tonight. And when I finally wrestle that gun from your warm hands, calmly put it aside, and then help you to your feet, please don’t punch me. It’ll piss me off.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
Okay, I’ve got to call it a night. Bethany, if you don’t want to own a gun, don’t own one. If you don’t want to own a car, don’t own one. But, please, don’t tell me I should not own either because people are tragically killed by some gun and car owners.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
Link missing from previous post re: drooling morons.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/veterans-bashing-veterans-who-are-helping-veterans.htm
Very informative link to the kind of shut in trolls running this site. You know, the military geniuses who don’t know that .45′s were still service weapons in 1990-1992. It’s like a sad clown car parade with a sad trombone, backed up by tiny dick syndrome and uncontrollable fear.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:18 pm
Cole comes over here, gets smacked around along with the rest of his flying monkeys, drops one last turd in the punch bowl and turns tail. No wonder he doesn’t want to have to defend himself, if he sucks at it as much physically as he does intellectually he would be dead within seconds.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:21 pm
“If you are a responsible adult, you don’t need a gun. If you are law enforcement, a gun is part of you work. Admit that they are not tools to you — they are toys — very dangerous toys — dangerous to you and everyone around you.”
Wow, what rock did you guys kick over to find this guy!?
Clayton, that is one of the most irresponsible statements, on multiple levels, that I’ve ever heard, nice.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:21 pm
“It’s ok. I can keep up just fine…” and yet you failed to so so. But sure, you’re the tough guy, rely on that when and if your life depends on it.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:21 pm
@169,
All I’m saying is “clips”.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Got any statistics on how often those pipebombs have been used, especially in places were there are very strict gun safety laws?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:23 pm
“…failed to do so…”.
Hey, I corrected myself without an edit button-how hard was that?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:23 pm
Cole citing Michael Yon.
Michael “Thailand” Yon, he of the red-cross Medevac.
Michael “Psycho” Yon, the guy who got kicked off an SF outpost for being a jackass.
Michael “Stalker” Yon, the guy who never lets decent journalism get in the way of his vendetta against CJ Grisham.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Polderboy-the point is that murderous lunacy will find a way. Defend yourself against that. Myself, I prefer firearms for self defense.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Like I said 68, pants-on-head retarded.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:25 pm
Also, it’s nice to see that most liberals are still intent on scoring internet points rather than forcing themselves to think about things of substance.
I imagine that must be a little harder for them, though, since they are the ones who don’t have any experience with firearms (yet want to pretend they are the experts on them).
December 16th, 2012 at 11:27 pm
By the way, Cole, you want to discuss why Michael Yon inexplicably trashed Soldier’s Angels? While you’re on the subject of “veterans bashing veterans helping veterans.”
You also want to defend the many implications that Doha, Kuwait was a dangerous place to be?
Hmmm?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:28 pm
Thanks, Cole. That sums things up quite nicely.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:31 pm
Actually Polder, Harris and Klybold (sp?) also used pipe bombs at Columbine. FYI.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
He can’t Yoshi, his is a tiny intellect hiding behind fantastic stories and vulgarity.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:36 pm
Clayton…accept the fact that those of us who use guns responsibly are 1-just as appaled and horrified at this massacre as any liberal gun-grabber, and 2-we’re still not surrendering our rights in order to give you some sort of false sense of security which in fact has shown time and again to make the situatuon more, not less, dangerous.
And Cole? I’m not even Army, but we were never required to tape our magazines (and yes, they are magazines, not clips.)
December 16th, 2012 at 11:37 pm
You guys are a bunch of nerds. Real men fight the state, like Adam Lanza did.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
Adam was ‘fighting the state’? I can’t wait to hear an explanation of that. Please expand on that comment Turner.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
Gun nut: someone who’s life is centered around gun ownership, to the point that they write and/or comment on blogs. No different than the alcoholic who’s life is centered around the bottle, or a nymphomaniac (usually the ex-wives of gun nuts)
December 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
#182 Which all failed to make any casualties. Apparently it’s not that easy to make them, at least not as easy as just grabbing several guns from your mother
December 16th, 2012 at 11:42 pm
Strong…I brew my own beer too. Does that also make me an alcoholic, even if I give most of it away?
Fuckin tools.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:44 pm
Actually, not true. And far easier to make than you might imagine.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:44 pm
Do you balloon nuts really think you’re being clever right now? Because as near as I can tell, that’s all you’re here to do.
Not advance a salient point, or any other reasonable use of your time.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
Turner’s late for his shift as the truck stop lot lizard. I’m sure he’ll be back when he’s cleaned up.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:46 pm
I think what the sheep are hinting at is that, before the invention of the gun, no one was ever killed. Must have flunked history something awful.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:46 pm
Sparky sounds like the next Adam Lonza. Maybe the Feds should be monitoring THIS site for the next gun-loving mass child murderer.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm
#189 “I brew my own beer too. Does that also make me an alcoholic”
you obviously have a mid-life crises with doubts about your own masculinity
December 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm
@187 – Just where do you get your information that the ex-wives of gun ‘nuts’ are nymphomaniacs?
Since nymphomaniacs are sex addicts, that implies that they have a personality disorder that contributed somehow to their becoming ex-wives, as opposed to staying married.
So what exactly is your backup for this misogynistic reference? What’s your source? Or is this just one of your usual weak, lame, and scurrilous attempts at misdirecting the conversation?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
Ah…the tools are out in force tonight.
You shall not defend your rights, lest one be labeled “gun nut” or worse.
Strongarm? More like limp dick.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
Yo Balloon Knots,
Check out this single shot weapon. No high capacity “clips” (that was for you, Cole) no “X rnds per min” no pistol grip…
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/AT-4_live-fire.jpg
December 16th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
Obviously, 195 has severe codpiece issues.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
They’re just trolling now-their arguments have been rebutted and so now they are just tossing around insults.
Lame.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:50 pm
I think this is (either consciously or subconsciously) part of the liberal meta-strategy of “shaming.”
If they can make fun of you enough, the thought process goes, you will be “shamed” into abandoning your gun-loving ways. (Note this has nothing to do with facts or any other bothersome things.)
Too bad they suck at it.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:50 pm
Hey Polder…squirrel!
December 16th, 2012 at 11:50 pm
Nymphos are the ex-wives of gun nuts because you people care more about your guns than satisfying your wife, driving them to personality disorders such as nymphomania.
Try looking up the meaning of “misogynistic”, if you can find your dictionary in the pile of your reading material such as the anarchist cookbook and Manson’s autobiography.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:52 pm
203-
Are you “strongarm” because you spend a lot of time pulling your pud?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:52 pm
Whereas Strongarm is very much concerned with satisfying other people’s wives. Carry on, jackass.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:53 pm
Strongarm:
“Gun nut: someone who’s life is centered around gun ownership, to the point that they write and/or comment on blogs. No different than the alcoholic who’s life is centered around the bottle, or a nymphomaniac (usually the ex-wives of gun nuts)”
As you and your assclown pal Cole comment on blogs.
Please, go back to your delusions about other peoples wives and strong arm “activities” and stop embarrassing yourself.
Freak.
December 16th, 2012 at 11:55 pm
I’ll give you gun lovers that gun control can’t stop all shootings if you admit that nancy Lanza is one of you and it backfired. She collected guns. Taught her mentally disabled son to shoot. Was a survivalist preparing to defend herself when the collapse came! Sound familiar? And it turned out this led to her doom and that of 27 people. It would be ironic if it werent so tragic. She was living in a fantasy world where she imagined herself defending her family from tyranny when the reality was she was unknowingly arming a monster.
Get it? Your Gun culture offers an illusion of protection while creating the danger itself. Wierd huh? a billion cracks for crazies to fall through. Can the purveyors of gun culture ignore all responsibility for that?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:56 pm
See, ladies and gentlemen? Polter and limp are demonstrating prima facie evidence that we need stricter Internet laws. Take away computers from those too young, or too mentally instable. Install keyboard locks, and have hard drive safes. For God’s sake, someone do SOMETHING!!!
HARRUMPH!! HARRUMPH!! HARRUMPH!!
I didn’t get a “HARRUMPH!” outta that guy…you watch your ass…
December 16th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
Ah, the expected and ordinary attempt at deflection, to wit:
‘you people care more about your guns than satisfying your wife’
And you were on the receiving end of lack of attention from your boyfriend who was more interested in polishing his torpedo in someone else’s firing chamber, I assume?
It’s always interesting how gay guys start to give themselves away by making disparaging remarks about other peoples’ sex lives because they aren’t getting any.
But you know how it is when you’re a bitchy boy, right, Strongarm?
December 16th, 2012 at 11:59 pm
Hey Nater…I seem to recall one of those “billion cracks” who murdered about 875 more people than Lanza did…and he did it with the same shit you’re drinking now.
How’s it taste?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:01 am
Well at least Nater is interested in discussing something.
From what I’ve been reading about the mother (not that much, I have to admit) she does sound like people I know who collect guns for enjoyment of shooting and self-defense. I’d appreciate a link to whatever source you got the information from, regardless. And given that, it does seem that her precautions did backfire.
The good thing about conservatism is that it’s not afraid to confront real-life truths. In other words, there is no perfect policy. There is only the best-outcome policy, or, if you will, the least of the evils. Of course we would all prefer to live in a crimeless, gun-free utopia – heaven, if you will – if we could. But keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is in fact impossible for any earthly government. Given that, gun ownership by free citizens is the most effective check on criminal predation.
Do American citizens die from legally owned guns? Yes, they do. But in the end, more citizens would die and be victimized by criminals without legally owned guns.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:02 am
@208 LOL!
December 17th, 2012 at 12:05 am
Nater-I do not know, or much care, what she may have done or not done, or even if your characterization of her is correct. I do know that I am prepared to defend myself and others to the greatest extent of my abilities, and my firearms are the means that I have to accomplish that. What others do, or do not do, has no bearing on my right to self defense and I bear no responsibility for their actions. If tomorrow someone drives a bulldozer through a classroom trailer (a common way for schools to deal with overcrowding) killing dozens will you blame “construction culture”? Inanimate objects are only as good as the people who use them and some people are capable of great evil. If you are inclined to resist them, firearms can help.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:07 am
…….I’m lost sparky…. To what do you refer? Apparently i gotta comment on this kind of blog more often cuz im missing something….
December 17th, 2012 at 12:08 am
Yoshi: Do American citizens die from legally owned guns? Yes, they do. But in the end, more citizens would die and be victimized by criminals without legally owned guns.
Link?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:08 am
Well @Zapruder – as to how many people you can kill with a sword… have you ever heard of the Nika revolt?
Literally tens of thousands butchered that day in the coliseum. By vastly outnumbered soldiers.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:09 am
68W68, good point. Let’s not forget that vehicles can become weapons of mass destruction with just a split-second swerve into a crowd.
Really. You can kill as many people as a mass shooter with an SUV.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:10 am
We should be worried about that awful ‘car culture’ out there too. You know, the culture that was responsible for 8 unstable people using vehicles for the singular purpose of killing 26 and wounding about 240 or so in the last 30 years.
Ya, makes sense to blame a tool or a ‘culture’ for all the worlds ills. Not.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:11 am
It was posted earlier, Strongman.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
Of Britain and the US, guess which has the stricter gun regulations?
By the way, do you know what Chicago and Washington, DC have in common with Britain?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:11 am
Hell, Britain even banned airsoft guns a few years ago.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:17 am
It’s after 11 here. Survivor is going off. I’m going to bed, if anyone makes a cogent argument I will try to respond tomorrow.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:18 am
Yoshi check out talkingpointsmemo.com about five posts down, “waiting on the apocalypse”. Can’t link on this device. may be prelim info that turns out wrong but seems to be based on quotes from lanzas sister.
I myself am willing to have a fair amount of weaponry in the hands of average citizens. But what do you guys want? Shoulder- fired missile launchers? How far do we go?
I’d equate rifles with alcohol — both cause some loss of life but are legal. Handguns are marijuana–the pros and cons are more balanced but I would legalize both. But automatic rifles are like meth — they don’t belong in civilization just war zones.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:24 am
That link has absolutely nothing to do with the correlation between guns ownership and gun violence. But don’t let facts get in the way of your gun-centric worldview. If only those 6 year olds were armed….
December 17th, 2012 at 12:25 am
Nater, thanks for the link.
The slipper slope of weaponry is influenced by a few factors. One of them is that 2nd Amendment was intended to arm citizens to the degree that they would be able to act as foot soldiers in a war. In other words, with weapons equivalent to that of the average trooper of the time. Obviously that leaves out nuclear weapons.
Automatic rifles are still illegal to possess by civilians.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:27 am
I’m going to bed, but there is one thing I’d like to ask you heroes before I do. You gun lovers are always going on about how freedom to have and tote guns is going to help someday when some crazed guy like this one last week show up to blow away a crowd of bystanders. O.K. Fair enough. But these things happen with a depressing inevitability. How many have we had since 1999, when those kids in Colorado shot up their school? I’d look it up, but it’s too depressing for me to do it now.
Anyway, these things happen at least once a year. Is it too much to ask that one of you gun-wielding vigilantes step up once in a fucking while and stop these spree killers? You assholes go on and on and on aond on about how many tough guys there are like you in the U.S., who know how to handle guns, and the jackbooted thugs are going to have to pry your guns out of your cold, dead hands, and by God, you’re going to step up and stop one of these massacres one day, just you wait!
Well, shit, how about doing something about it, dickwads? Hey, come on, how about it? By your reckoning, there are tens of millions just like you spread about our fair land. Surely one of you saviors musthave been at one of the countless such slaughters over the last ten or fifteen years? And if so, then what the fuck are you waiting for? Stand up and do the job you were heaven sent to do, heroes. Again, is this too much to ask? If so, then I’m sorry, we won’t bother to ask you to keep us all safe, since it’s evidently too much trouble for you armchair Dirty Harrys.
And if you aren’t going to do your own self-appointed job, then would you all please just shut the fuck up and let the sane people do something to get some of those guns the hell away from nuts?
You fearless commandos have had enough time to prove to us just how great you are at staving off these atrocities. You’ve fallen on your faces pretty damned hard. So, for Christ’s sake, please get out of the way and let the grownups do something worthwhile for a change.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:28 am
Yes, there is a correlation between relatively unfettered private gun ownership and gun violence. But guess what has a much higher correlation? Restrictive gun control legislation…and gun violence.
Again, as I said before, this is about picking the lesser of the two evils. Something that responsible adults have to do.
Of course, if you are God (which you are not), then by all means take all the guns away. While you’re at it, please prevent anyone from murdering with kitchen knives or piano wire with your divine powers.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:29 am
We can’t. Schools are gun free zones. The rest of your drivel, TLDR.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:29 am
Everyone conflating bulldozers and cars killing people with automatic rifles killing people: that’s just a retarded argument. Bulldozers and cars have a central purpose that is not killing people. They build shit. They go places. Automatic rifles have no other purpose. The only reason they exist is death to humans. Two completely different things. Oh and yeah anyways? We do have licensing requirements for bulldozers that are higher than those of guns in many states, amiright? I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul (billy Madison)
December 17th, 2012 at 12:29 am
Is it only a matter of time we find out that Lanza was a regular visitor/commenter on this blog? Seems like a hotbed of violent gun nuts who justify their obsession with guns with some obtuse definition of “self defense”. How many times have you guys had to “defend” yourselves by firing your gun at a criminal?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:29 am
You call yourself a dentist? With all that shit you keep talking?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:31 am
@Zapruder, is that really what you had to spend ten minutes of your time typing?
1: If you would establish an early-warning system to detect spree killers in the US, then get Scotty to tell us the secrets of teleportation, then beam CCW holders to the site of the spree killing, we’d be happy to comply with your request.
2: How many CCW holders were present at the spree killings?
3: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/category/ccm-departments/true-stories/
December 17th, 2012 at 12:32 am
Strong…fortunately, never. But often, merely unholstering one is enough. Not point it, not shoot it.
Again, might I suggest you add John Lott to your reading list?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:34 am
Nater:
Isn’t the “purpose” of an object (which, you will note, is not an intrinsic quality of an object, but merely something applied by its user) irrelevant when using two objects in the same way accomplishes the same purpose with similar results?
For example, Eric Red (probably on purpose) killed several people with his Jeep a few years ago. I don’t think the fact that the “purpose” of the Jeep was to transport people safely stopped those other people from dying.
In fact, it had nothing to do with what happened.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:34 am
Actually Nater, depending on the state and where used, construction equipment may require far less licensing and formal training than is required to obtain a CCW permit…and is certainly cheaper.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:34 am
Per capita gun deaths per 100,000 citizens per year:
USA: 9.0
UK: 0.25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
For those of you such as Yoshi, who can’t interpret statistics, that means that if you live in the US you are 36-times more likely to die from a gun than if you live in the UK. Land of the free!
December 17th, 2012 at 12:36 am
I’m a relatively recent follower of this forum, stumbled upon it for vet-centric issues. One of these is how quickly the Yuppies and hipsters all turned on all who’ve served, sadly with the help of the blue falcons and ex-pouges.
It appears that the gun rights issue is going to be the best indicator we see for how most “decent folks” who “support the troops” revert back to the condescending cliches of pre-9/11 America.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:36 am
Fuck. For Christ’s sake, there have been scores of these massacres in the last teen, fifteen, twenty years. You guys are millions strong, or so you’d have us believe. Where the fuck are you? The odds are pretty good that at least one of you clowns would have been at one of these things. Nobody needs to know beforehand when and where they’ll happen if you gunslingers are as widespread and everready as you seem to think you are. So, when will one of you step up and do your job?
And if none of you cellar-dwelling, cheeto-addicted weirdos are ever at any of these atrocities, then it doesn’t really help anybody much if you all do have guns, then, does it?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:37 am
And here I thought you were going to bed.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:38 am
@Strongarm – yeah, I should have said “a correlation with higher crime.”
In the end, more people per capita suffer from violent crime (and a good many are dead) in the UK than the US. But they suffered from knives and baseball bats more than guns, so you can rest your soul.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:40 am
@Zapruder:
So in other words, you’re admitting that there’s never been a CCW holder at any mass killing. That’s a hell of a long-winded way to do so.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:41 am
And Strong…isn’t private ownership of guns in GB ILLEGAL???
And yet gun murders STILL occur? IMPOSSIBRU!!!
Finally, did you not like the fact that VIOLENT (not just gun-related) crime in most countries with more restrictive gun laws is HIGHER than similar crime rates here? Or does that not fit in with your agenda?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:41 am
Yeah, well, I was. And I am. But you clowns are so maddening that sometimes it’s hard to make myself do the right thing and just leave all you losers to wack off to your latest Guns ’n’ Ammo. So, happy jacking, and don’t forget to use some K-Y. Oh, and don’t play with loaded guns while you gratify yourselves, it’s unwise. Goodnight.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:44 am
Wow…I’d hate to be your first patient tomorrow…”Iz it zafe??”
10 Internets to first person who correctly identifies that quote.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:44 am
The funny thing is that another college shooter, shortly after the VT shooter, was stopped by people with legally owned firearms. It’s somewhat of an open question whether he would have succeeded whether they had been around or not, but they prevented him from doing any more danger.
Then there’s that mall shooter who decided to off himself recently after he was confronted by a responsible CCW holder. But Zapruder seems to think some people in the mall would be better off dead.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:45 am
I guess people killed with switchblades are less dead than people killed with handguns.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:46 am
“you cellar-dwelling, cheeto-addicted weirdos”
Thank you @237 for best describing what Yuppie America thinks of the demographic that serves
December 17th, 2012 at 12:47 am
Anti-gun trolls: please tell me how strict gun control improved safety for the Jews and other Untermensch in the Third Reich, Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, Christians in Uganda, anti-Communists in Russia, or the other tens of millions of people slaughtered after buying into the fantasy that disarmament would allow only the responsible, trained government agents to be the only ones with weapons and life would be safer.
You tools are so ignorant of history that you’re willing to trade essential liberty for a little temporary security. As Ben Franklin said, for that you deserve neither.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:47 am
You guys won’t mind giving up your guns then since pipe bombs, swords, SUVs, etc are all such effective weapons.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:48 am
*… slaughtered in the last century
December 17th, 2012 at 12:50 am
Cajun…I did a quick Google of this tool’s work. (shudder)
Talk about projection.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:51 am
Uh, that’s a negative, oil slick.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:52 am
@248 unfortunately it’s infinitely harder to use an SUV to kill a violent attacker (without killing others) than using an SUV to just kill a bunch of random strangers. Ditto for the other implements. Can you please apply a little critical thinking before you shoot your wad off?
@BWB yeah, I forgot Hitler confiscated Jewish guns. Of course, a lot of liberals would have us believe that this has no relevance on gun control whatsoever.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:56 am
Again, why do you guys only care about gun deaths when there are so many other kinds of deaths that are more common and just as deadly? ALL forms of death are equally deadly. And as sad as it is when a kid is needlessly shot dead, it’s equally sad when he’s needlessly killed by a drunk driver. And don’t give me that “a car isn’t meant to kill people, a gun is” bullshit, because it doesn’t MATTER what it’s MEANT to do, it matters what it DOES do. The result, death, is what you’re supposedly trying to prevent…right? The “intent” of the tool is such a red herring…get off the topic of guns and lobby for low-alcohol drinks only and all speed limits to be changed to 10 mph if you really want to cut down on deaths, because those two things cause more deaths than firearms do. More deaths – do you understand? Why aren’t you concerned with THOSE deaths?
Nobody “needs” an “assault weapon”, you guys are always saying. Regardless of whether that’s true…it’s also a fact that nobody needs to drive more than 10 miles an hour. There is not a single person on this planet who literally NEEDS to drive more than ten miles an hour. We were able to get around before cars were invented. Thousands of people, including kids, are killed in high-speed car accidents. This is just a fact. Again, please try to forget about the whole pointless “car is not intended as a weapon” distinction, because it doesn’t matter when the FACT is that THOUSANDS DIE in car crashes.
Do you actually care about the deaths? Or is it just that you care first and foremost about fucking around with our 2nd Amendment rights, and will USE deaths to justify it?
December 17th, 2012 at 1:02 am
@250, I’m not in the least bit concerned. I now attend classes daily with people eager to control the lives of others without no concept of what the “policy” they espouse will do to those affected.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:07 am
I’m a big supporter of mass transit, such as trains, to reduce car-related deaths just as I’m a big supporter of strict gun laws to reduce gun-related deaths. Educated people care about more than 1 issue.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:08 am
@253- results are not what drives these people, intentions are. Take a look at what their wonderful policies have done for Detroit.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:12 am
@255- “Educated people”… lol. Such condescending bullshit is a progressive trademark. You go ahead and keep caring about issues and coming up with expensive boondoggles that won’t solve them. The rest of us will work in the real world.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:26 am
237,
How about reading actual facts about mass shootings instead of relying on your addled recollection of the nightly news, dipshit.
http://news.yahoo.com/no-rise-mass-killings-impact-huge-185700637.html
Here are a few choice quotes:
“There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston’s Northeastern University, who has been studying the subject since the 1980s, spurred by a rash of mass shootings in post offices.
The random mass shootings that get the most media attention are the rarest, Fox says. Most people who die of bullet wounds knew the identity of their killer.”
“Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.
Chances of being killed in a mass shooting, he says, are probably no greater than being struck by lightning.”
What was that you were saying about people on this site, many of whom have been on multiple deployments to combat zones that would make you piss your frilly white drawers?
Keep talking all the shit you want about your betters, who really did step up and volunteer to protect your ungracious and unworthy ass, along with the right for you to vomit your own pathologies over their computer screens. At the end of the day, you’re just a pathetic bottom feeder who can do no more than throw verbal spitballs at people who really did something in life.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:32 am
@258- “your betters”… lol. Such condescending bullshit is a racist rightwing trademark. You go ahead and keep caring about issues and coming up with violent and irresponsible boondoggles that won’t solve them. The rest of us will work in the real world.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:34 am
Look at what this car did the other day!
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/09/joseph_loughrey_shoots_kills_son_outside_gun_store.html
Loughrey a commenter here?
December 17th, 2012 at 1:40 am
And these Topeka police officers should have been packing more heat to defend themselves from this car:
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/16/3969206/2-topeka-police-officers-shot.html
December 17th, 2012 at 1:43 am
259, his (and your) betters include people of all races. Try and get a refund on that magic racism decoder ring you bought off the infomercial during Ed Schultz, because you got ripped off.
As far as the “real world” goes, I just quoted you some reality from guys who do nothing but study the “real world” as it pertains to evil acts committed by evil people. Your bleating and histrionics despite those facts speaks volumes.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:48 am
What took you so long, Strongarm? I figured accusations of racism would’ve come from a mental midget like you much sooner.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:51 am
Look, those teachers that were killed were with government. They had it coming. The kids should have been homeschooled. Thomas Jefferson said it best “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
December 17th, 2012 at 1:54 am
By the way, the mother was one of yours:
===============
The mother of Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza who slaughtered 20 US schoolchildren and seven adults was a gun-hoarding survivalist who was stockpiling weapons in preparation for an economic collapse, it has emerged.
Nancy Lanza was shot four times in the head before her son Adam gunned down young pupils and teachers at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut.
Her sister-in-law Marsha Lanza told reporters at her Illinois home that her gun-obsessed relative was part of the ‘prepper’ movement that fears an economic collapse will lead to a breakdown in society.
“She prepared for the worst,” Ms Lanza said.
“Last time we visited her in person, we talked about prepping — are you ready for what could happen down the line, when the economy collapses?”
=============
Sound familiar? Thought so.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:01 am
John cole, are you registered with your local police department as being a literal walking vagina? If not you should be. Even with the amount of illogical stupid diarrhea coming from the mouths of freedom hating scared pussies nobody here is trying to deny their constitutional rights. Yet the same cant be said of these frady pants trying to negate the human condition for that of a fantasy existence of man which has never been.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:11 am
wow, Cole’s troll dancing boys are out in force tonight. Anyone is welcome to come to try to get my weapons from me, as I own them legally, am trained, keep them in and around my own property, and have a Constitutional right to have them. Let me know, I will arrange a meeting.
Wouldn’t be any of the hand wringing whiny little libtards spewing their catty, uninformed screeds, though. Work is for others, in their view.
Gun grabbing fascists take note. I have seen many more dead insurgents that I respect more, as they actually put up a fight and try to back it up instead of running their mouth.
Words and insults are cheap-back up all the tough talk. Didn’t think so-not even going to try to scratch my eyes out or show me your hand? (talk to the hand)
I spit on liberals, progressives and fascists and look forward to the upcoming unpleasantness if this country continues down this path. Then we will see what is what and who wants to dance.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:16 am
Well, since Nancy Lanza’s sister-in-law is a local person, I went searching for a video of what she actualy said, which had nothing about preppers or doomsday stuff in it:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/connecticut-lanza-family-profile/index.html
The quote by Strongarm comes from some online rag called examiner dot com, which says its link comes from WLN. Well, the WLN stand for various library networks (Westmoreland Library Network, Washington Library Network, etc.). There is no link to a TV or radio media outlet, local or otherwise, with the call sign WLN.
So Strongarm lied and his source lied.
End of story.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:16 am
“I guess people killed with switchblades are less dead than people killed with handguns.”
The crux of the issue.
LTC Dave Grossman had it right in “On Combat.” Guns=loud=scary. Guns are no more or less deadly than knives or bats, they are just louder and scarier.
Also, typical moonbats coming in and throwing fourth grade “racist!” and “deficient anatomy” insults around, instead of any semblance of intelligent debate. I guess they are just projecting their deficiencies onto us. Oh well, I didn’t respect anyone who would read that balloon blog before and I sure don’t now.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:20 am
Idaho2run, has it occurred to you that the so-called liberals are not actually one bit liberal?
Liberal means free to choose, free to think for yourself, free to make your own decisions, and they don’t want that.
They are not one bit progressive. Progressive means moving forward. They don’t want that, either. They want stagnation. They want to be monitored. They want every decision made for them. That is neither liberal nore progressive. It’s stuck in the mud and afraid of their own shadows.
I think that liberal and progressive as political terms need to be replaced by something more appropriate.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:22 am
The mother was one of yours.
==============
Did paranoid, gun-crazed mother trigger son’s school killing spree? Friends say she believed world was on edge of collapse
The mother of the loner who massacred 26 pupils and staff at a US primary school may have played a major part in his catastrophic mental breakdown, it emerged last night.
Friends and family portrayed Adam Lanza’s mother Nancy as a paranoid ‘survivalist’ who believed the world was on the verge of violent, economic collapse.
She is reported to have been struggling to hold herself together and had been stockpiling food, water and guns in the large home she shared with her 20-year-old son in Connecticut.
Mrs Lanza, 52, was a ‘prepper’ – so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilised society – who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges.
That backfired horrifically on Friday when Adam Lanza began his killing spree by shooting his mother dead in bed.
He fired four bullets into her head – possibly as she slept – then took three of her guns to Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, where he killed 20 children and six staff.
Lanza’s aunt Marsha said Nancy was ‘self reliant’ and that they talked a lot about how she was preparing for the economic meltdown.
===========
How many regular commenters here are NOT preppers?
December 17th, 2012 at 2:32 am
Okay who let all the “tin foil hat wearers” in? Can’t we just do a fly over their houses with our “black helicopters.”
December 17th, 2012 at 2:35 am
@270 EX-PH2,
Gotcha. Just using the current terms for dirty, smelly hippies, fascists, communists, and wannabe totalitarian scum.
You are right, they are far more rigid in their fanatical pursuit of socialism and leftist utopia to be thought of as liberal. They are about as liberal in the normal use of the word as rabid, foaming at the mouth jihadist.
Same for progressive. They only want to see if they can somehow make the ideas given to us by Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Chavez, etc actually work.
These idiots would rather bang the bongo, smoke the ganga, worship Gaia and tell others how to live.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:36 am
Here’s a local source link to the aunt’s response to the media:
http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-aunt-of-adam-lanza-from-illinois-20121215,0,1330351.story
Strongarm, you are a lying bastard. You are the lowest of the lowlife slugs that hover around corpses and feed off of them. You are no better than the offal that you feed on.
Calling you a pig would be an insult to pigs, and they’re a lot more intelligent than you are, too.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:39 am
@270 – I honestly don’t think they all give it that much thought. I believe your blurb put more thought into their political leanings than they have. I think they consider themselve liberal because it “feels” good. It feels good to bash people who are and think differently then them, because they are “loving and tolerant.”
I tend to think that is the difference between modern liberalism and modern conservatism. Liberalism deals with how they want the world to be(their own private utopia), conservative deal with the world as it really is.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:43 am
Yes, Idaho, but none of that is progressive or liberal.
Progressive means you don’t get in the way of the mom and pop shop owners or the guy who wants to invent the light bulb or the hearing aid. Liberal means you don’t tell other people what they should or should not eat, or what kind of retirement savings they’re allowed to have.
If these people had to live with the kind of monitoring that the Chinese government used on its own citizens and still does, or even more intense monitoring as in “1984″, they’d be screaming themselves into fits over it.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:46 am
#274 Nice insult screed, guess the truth hurts so bad that you have to revert to weak “lowlife slug” smack. Don’t blame the messenger, the reports are all over the media:
==========
http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/15659440/gunmans-mother-was-doomsday-prepper/
As America searches for answers, investigators are turning towards Nancy Lanza’s supposed identification as a survivalist.
The Daily Mail reports Ms Lanza stockpiled weapons and food for what she saw as America’s coming economic collapse.
The ‘prepper’ revelations may provide one insight into Adam Lanza’s motive for taking so many innocent lives
===========
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/12/adam-lanzas-mother-was-an-avid-gun-collector.html
===========
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248782/Adam-Lanza-How-classmates-remember-genius-turned-heartless-killer.html#ixzz2FES81o6t%20
===========
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9749217/Connecticut-school-shooting-Adam-Lanzas-mother-was-preparing-for-disaster.html
===========
http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/shooters-mom-was-a-prepper/?cat_orig=us
December 17th, 2012 at 2:48 am
@265- she was a single mother and a school teacher, dealing with a psychotic child. I thought you progressives cared about them and their plight? Life of Julia and all that stuff, you know? Unless… you were lying. Again. Gosh, that seems to happen quite often.
This woman made a mistake in not locking up her firearms, as has been said here before, and many families have paid a terrible price as a result. Part of being a responsible gun owner is keeping your weapons safe. That includes ensuring they stay out of anyone else’s hands unless you are present in a supervisory role.
However, the bigger issue (after all, those of us who are educated care about more than one issue) is why her son wasn’t recieving care (not medication, actual care) for his problem, or why he wasn’t able to be placed into a facility that could help him? I know the ACLU shut those joints down, but perhaps it’s time to re-think that decision. Ms. Lanza’s firearms wouldn’t have gotten there on their own. Without Adam, there would have been no problem.
The VA Tech shooter was mentally ill. As was the guy who shot Congresswoman Giffords, the guy who shot up that place in Binghamton, and the Aurora shooter. The problem with these other examples was the failure of our law enforcement to be able to obtain mental health records. Why don’t you progressive dipshits campaign to allow our law enforcement (the guys who do the background check) access to the information that would actually keep legal firearms out of the hands of those who are mentally unfit? The laws are already on the books. The means to enforce them, however, are not. More laws on top of the existing laws will not solve anything, it’ll just piss off legal gun owners by adding extra bullshit they have to deal with.
But that’s probably all you want anyway. Just stack enough bureaucracy and law on anything, and people will stop doing it legally.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:51 am
@ C’mon Teddy, you know they only care about their special interest groups like single mothers when it is time to vote. Voting is over..
December 17th, 2012 at 2:51 am
@275, I think it’s the difference between common sense coupled with self-sufficiency, and being intellectually lazy along with a dislike of anyone who disagrees with you.
People on this blog frequently disagree with each other, but they don’t get into personal attacks like this most recent bunch of peculiar beings. I’ve seldom seen so much animosity, and just because someone has a different viewpoint?
This discussion was abut guns, having versus not having, and while I don’t have one, and don’t want one, I respect the choices of other people who do want and do have them. It’s this freedom to choose that seems to bug the living daylights out of the opposition.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:52 am
20 Children:
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Madeleine F. Hsu, 6
Catherine V. Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison N. Wyatt, 6
6 Union Thugs:
Rachel Davino, 29
Dawn Hochsprung, 47, principal
Anne Marie Murphy, 52, special education teacher
Lauren Rousseau, 30, teacher
Mary Sherlach, 56, school psychologist
Victoria Soto, 27, first grade teacher
In between all the endless, self pittying whining articles about the mean old liberals taking away your guns I thought i might remind you of the real victims here. It’s not you. You are right about one thing: I for one am not interested in having a reasoned conversation. YOu’re not reasonable people.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:54 am
@280- keep waving that bloody shirt, insipid. It’s classy stuff.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:56 am
Dear Insipid,
A mentally unstable person killed those people. Stop blaming an inanimate object.
Signed,
Logic…
December 17th, 2012 at 2:56 am
Is anyone of your ilk aware of who the suspect was? It’s not us either. Talk about unreasonable.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:57 am
@279
I don’t own a gun either, but apparently because I support the Bill of Rights, I fall in the gun nut category.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:57 am
@278: You mean these types of laws that are “already on the books”? Like in 22 states where it is legal for an 8 year old to buy a shotgun?
=============
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/16/the-6-craziest-state-gun-laws/
1. Concealed carry at 16 — with no permit: Most states that allow people to carry a concealed weapon on their person require gun owners to obtain a permit before doing so. But four states — Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming and Vermont — allow concealed carry without any permit. That means, the Brady Campaign’s Brian Malte tells me, that Jared Loughner was in full compliance with Arizona law up until the moment he used his concealed weapons to kill six people and severely injure Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
Vermont, however, stands out from the pack because it allows people as young as 16 to conceal carry without parental permission, as well as buy handguns. So a Vermont teenager aged 16 can’t legally go to an R-rated movie alone or join the military, but he can buy a handgun and carry it in his jeans and be completely within the limits of the law.
2. Property rights end where gun rights begin: According to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, 17 states, including Oklahoma and Florida, bar employers from preventing their employees from bringing guns to work and keeping them locked in their vehicles, even if those vehicles are on the property of the employer. Indiana and North Dakota allow employees to sue their employers for damages if asked about gun possession. The North Dakota statue specifically bars employers from asking if employees’ vehicles parked on company property have weapons in them. Georgia bars employers from making employment conditional on not bringing guns to work.
3. License to kill, even in public: A class of laws, called “castle doctrine” statutes by supporters, in most states clarify that homeowners who feel threatened in their domicile have no duty to retreat from threats or to refrain from the use of deadly force. But most states also have such laws that apply to conflagrations in public places, far removed from the shooter’s “castle.” That is, these 34 states allow people to use deadly force when they feel threatened in public.
These laws vary in severity. Five states, including Ohio and Missouri, only provide for the use of deadly force when the threatened party is in a vehicle. But most states with laws along these lines, most notably Florida, follow the American Legal Exchange Council (ALEC) model law, which bans police from arresting people who use deadly force in public unless there is probable cause that they did not act in response to a perceived threat, and which grants broad immunity from prosecution and civil action to shooters in such case. Indeed, someone who shoots and kills in such a circumstance can himself sue law enforcement agencies if they press charges.
Some researchers have found that castle doctrine laws of this scope, frequently dubbed “stand your ground” laws, have caused a statistically significant increase in homicide rates. The most notorious case where such statutes came into play was the Trayvon Martin case in Sanford, Fla., where George Zimmerman pursued and killed Martin because he states he perceived a threat, despite Martin having no weapons and not having interacted with Zimmerman at all. Zimmerman was eventually charged with second-degree murder by a special prosecutor after the state’s attorney declined to press charges. Zimmerman could still have the charges dismissed under the “stand your ground law” if he demonstrates to a judge that he felt threatened.
4. Open carry without a permit: Most legal disputes around carrying guns in public involved concealed carry. But open carry, which is arguably more threatening to surrounding community members, is largely unregulated. Thirty-five states allow open carry of handguns without a permit, while only three (plus the District of Columbia) ban it outright. Forty-seven states plus the District allow open carry of long guns (that is, rifles or shotguns) in public, while only three ban it.
5. 8-year-olds with shotguns: Federal law mandates that licensed gun dealers only sell long guns to individuals 18 and older, and handguns to individuals 21 and older. But not all legal gun sellers are federally licensed. For instance, many gun show participants sell guns legally without a federal license. That means that many under 18 and 21 are capable of buying guns legally. As mentioned above, Vermont allows children as young as 16 to buy handguns without parental consent.
What’s more, federal law allows all individuals 18 and older to possess handguns, and has no minimum age for long gun possession. Only 20 states and the District of Columbia have a minimum age for long gun possession. The age is usually set at 18, but in New York it’s only 16, and in Montana it’s 14. So in Helena, one can legally own a shotgun before graduating from 8th grade. And in the 30 states with no such minimum age, you could own one when you’re in elementary school.
Further, only 28 states and the District set a minimum age for sales from unlicensed gun dealers. Twenty-two states, then, have no such minimum age. And in three states, the minimum age for sales only applies to long guns. So in 22 states it is perfectly legal for an 8-year-old to pick up a handgun at a gun show, though he cannot legally possess it. In 20 states that 8 year old can both legally buy a shotgun and possess it.
6. Guns at schools: In 2010, Kansas passed a law allowing the concealed carry of guns in K-12 schools, in violation of the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act, which criminalizing the carrying of firearms in specified school zones. That act was ruled unconstitutional in U.S. v. Lopez as exceeding the federal government’s powers under the Commerce Clause, and a revised statute was passed that limits the ban to guns “involved in interstate commerce,” so it is possible that the Kansas statute does not run afoul of federal law in all cases.
This past week, Michigan followed suit, with state legislators passing a law allowing concealed carry in schools, bars, daycare centers and churches. Gov. Rick Snyder (R) has not signed the bill into law, and its ultimate passage is now in doubt due to the Newtown incident.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:59 am
what you gentlefolk just don’t get – is the gun laws are a matter of “where do you draw the line”
I think it’s safe to say we all agree that the government should have nuclears weapons, and individuals shouldn’t, right?
and we all agree that banning kitchen knives is stupid too, right?
and I think it’s fair to say that the vast majority of people in this country want a store owner who makes a bank deposit @ 2:00 a.m. be able to carry a gun in case of a robbery, likewise for law enforcement.
the way I see this debate failing in the rationality department is in the failure to realize that it’s really a “where do we dray the line” thing.
(and look, the this week flash of the Michigan legislature saying conceal carry to sporting events is a good idea… drunk people at a game who are emotional and may have ROn Artest jumping in the stands are a bad bet for a good result of gun use)
do we draw the line at having a revolver? do we draw the line at a shotgun? do we draw the line at a semi auto with a 10 round magazine? 20? do we draw that line at a .50 cal machine gun?
against a govenment which has drones, modern tanks, modern attack helicopters, the notion that a bunch of people with even .50 cal machine guns are an actual check on govenment power is silly.
you need to move that line to allow people to have RPGs at a minimum
Really it’s a where do you draw the line kind of question – and the line is already drawn, I can’t get myself a surplus T72 and load up that cannon. the debate is really about moving that line. I think where the line should end up should be a function of the best statisticsa and science, not a McGeiveresque hate of guns, or a constant indutry drumbeat to buy more because the feared mass government takeaway is just around the corner.
we have arms control, it ain’t legal to weaponize anthrax – between that and stone knives, where do we draw the line?
December 17th, 2012 at 3:00 am
@285– Not sure what you are ranting about, but Teddy and I were talking about the villification of the killer’s single mother. A demographic that liberal say they care about..
December 17th, 2012 at 3:04 am
#287 I’m fairly certian he just shifted into full blown copy/paste mode, since he clearly can’t think for himself. Just watch out when you find useless hacks posing as bloggers and call them out on their bullshit, like Mr. Cole here. They’ll unleash teh stupid all over you.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:08 am
To all you preppers out there, the mother was one of you and here’s the interview to prove it:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/12/wow_waiting_for_the_apocalypse.php
I’d suggest you watch your own kids and spend less time fantasizing about your deadly toys.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:11 am
@288
Guess he just want to prove all the tragedies that happen with guns at school, and the laws that go along with it. I wonder when liberals became full baby/daddy government mode: the government must regulate every aspect of our lives. It is hilarious to read their comments; they are appalled and feel for the shinny thing that the conservative boogie man wants to regulate their abortions(apparently not killing), marriages and contraceptions but agree guns are baaaaaddd..
And apparently you all must be very “young” soldiers with small penises..or is peni the plural- I forget. Anyway, and most of you probably haven’t seen combat. Quite hilarious, the high fiving that is going on at their blog. And all of them actually believe that they came over here and outwitted all of us..
December 17th, 2012 at 3:12 am
@285- nice copy/paste.
An 8 year old cannot buy a shotgun without his or her parents present (and what 8 year old has that kind of money without it coming from their parents?), despite the fearmongering you’ve been subject to.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:13 am
@289
Preppers don’t exist.. Better watch talking about our secret organization or I will have to fly my black helicopter over your tinfoil hat..
Actually in all seriousness, I had to look that one up.. lol
December 17th, 2012 at 3:14 am
Not sure how strict gun control would work in America as there is already so many guns in circulation. Also it is relative easy for guns to be carried in from the southern boarder.
Here in Australia gun control is highly effective as its now pretty much impossible to get your hands on a fire arm. You can’t buy one as it is pretty much illegal and you can’t steal one as there are none to steal. Then if you could get your hands on one, somehow? It could only be a single shot rifle or low calibre hand gun.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:17 am
@294: Shhh, don’t talk about other parts of the world. The readers of this blog have never left the US unless it was with a gun to go kill browns.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:18 am
@ 293 It would work as well as keeping drugs and illegal immigrants out of America has worked.
What would happen is law abiding people would be forced to turn in their fire arms, and the people who want to commit crimes would continue to procure them one way or the other.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:19 am
@294 Can you be any more ignorant? Many of us have actually lived in other parts of the world. You know, not the visit the hotel and site seeing kind, but actual honest to God address in other nations. You truly have a small mind.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:22 am
Dear Melle, I’m sick of that argument.
The tool needs to exist in order for the person to weild it. You need scissors to cut, a car to drive and a gun to shoot. Take the tool away and the person cannot weild it.
@Teddy- this site was posting articles on this site whining about your alleged “rights” before the bodies of these kids were even cold. Don’t talk to me about “classy.”
We’re tired of being told that there is nothing we can do save arm everyone from your crowd. That our right to keep and bear children must be subservient to your “right” to keep and bear arms. That the only way we can protect our right not to be shot is to be constantly prepared to shoot.
I do not want to live in your world anymore. I find it disgusting and i want to change it. It’s not “waving the bloody shirt”. It’s saying that I’ve had enough of this. This is becoming a common occurence in our nation.
Maybe liberals are going about it the wrong way, but at least we’re going about it. The only “solution” you seem to want to accept, more guns, is anathema to me.
Plus, despite Jonn’s laughable cherry picking of Washington DC, we know that the states with the most permissive gun laws have the highest amounts of gun deaths. The states with the least permissive gun laws have the least amount of deaths. Jonn “conveniently” left New York- and its extreme success with tight gun laws- out of his “analysis.”
So since you solutions aren’t, i think we should try ours.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:26 am
Dear Insipid,
China has one one of the most strictest gun cultures, please do yourself a favor and look up the rash of shootings that have happened recently in China. In fact, look up the 22 people injured when a KNIFE wielding person went to a school. THE TOOL IS NOT THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEM. THE TOOL IS A MEANS. The systemic problem is violence and mental illness. Learn to deal with those issues, and you won’t have to worry about inanimate objects. Liberals aren’t doing anything but dealing with a symptom, but that is their MO so Meh!
Sign, Melle and Logic
December 17th, 2012 at 3:28 am
Yes, they were INJURED with a knife. But no one died. And, the reality is that we are BY FAR the worst nation in the world when it comes to gun deaths. It’s not even close.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:29 am
Wow, such an unreasonable fear of firearms…
December 17th, 2012 at 3:30 am
@299
Oklahoma City Bombings…No gun
9/11-No gun.
Mad men will find a way to murder you without a gun. The liberal illogic: A murderer is going to respect a gun law.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:31 am
Where we can come together, Melle is on mental illness. I actually think the mental health parity in the PPACA is a good first step.
I also think another step is to inform people that are depressed or who are around people that are depressed- like the mother to NOT have guns in the house. The first question asked at a suicide hotline is “do you have a gun?” Can’t we ask that question BEFORE it gets to that point. I mean if we can warn parents about keeping cleaning products out of the reach of children can’t we warn people about keeping guns away from the clinically depressed?
December 17th, 2012 at 3:33 am
@300
It isn’t about firearms. It is about them feeling good about something that makes them sad. You don’t see the same people ranting about the treatment of mental illness. You don’t see the same people calling for a ban on abortion; they consider that a right even though that takes a life so no ban. Because they don’t care about this right; they don’t care if it gets banned. And if they can feel good about themeselves in the process- you have a recipe for liberal self esteem.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:33 am
Sure, beacuse over dosing, hanging themselves or cutting their wrists is a much more acceptable way of committing suicide. /Sarcasm
December 17th, 2012 at 3:35 am
@302 I absolutely agree Insipid.
I also think (although the msm is largely inaccurate) based on what I have read that if I was the mother of this child, I would have removed my guns from the home- and gotten him some help.
That being said, no legislation would have stopped this. That would need to come from personal responsibility. You would have to open up people’s medical records to background check(ACLU would be all over that) and that still wouldn’t have precluded the mother from getting the guns. She wasn’t mentally ill.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:35 am
Yes, and after Oklahoma city it became impossible for the average guy to buy fertilizer like that and since then, no more Oklahoma cities.
For the life of me i can’t understand this “can’t do attitude”. That unless if we can solve ALL problems in ALL instances we should solve NO problems.
I remember when New York City was one of the most violent cities in the world. Now it’s one of the most peaceful. Like it or not, a big part of that is extremely strict gun laws. Did they stop ALL murder there? No, but they stopped a lot. In fact they stopped most. So you want the perfect being the enemy of the good?
December 17th, 2012 at 3:37 am
@286-
I have a feeling some of the people trolling here would be the same ones to claim that “the Taliban are kicking your asses with stone-age weapons, just like the VietCong lolz” when they want to rile us up (you may not be one of those people, in which case, try not to take offense to what I’m saying). It does rile us up, however, because it is partially true. Rules and regulations keep our forces from unleashing hell on foreign populations, so asymmetrical warfare is the way to go. Terrorist groups and armies of other countries have understood that since Giap pointed that out to them.
Yet somehow you think our government, whose soldiers are volunteer citizens of this country, would use A-10s and drones and tanks against their own population indiscriminately? You think a pilot from NY would drop bombs in NY without questioning that order?
As for the rest- as a resident of NY, I saw what they’ve done to cigarette smokers here. They’ve criminalized legal behavior to the point that it has developed a black market for a legal substance. People are being killed and arrested over cigarettes. Police departments and state agencies are wasting tax revenue developing task forces to stomp out the smuggling of black market cigarettes. A legal substance. It’s asinine. Imagine what will happen with firearms.
It’s for that reason that I won’t give them one fucking inch on firearms. Not one. I don’t want to see incrimental adjustments to what constitutes “sensible regulation”, until only those who can afford to pay the annual registration fees or $500/box ammunition taxes are the ones who have them. I don’t want my state to waste tax revenue on crack-down teams for something that is not only legal, but a constitutionally protected right. I don’t want to see an increase of black-market weapons and ammunition trafficking. I don’t want to see the deaths that would occur as a result.
What happened to those children is a shame, and we should do everything to prevent another tragic event from happening. But we should not disrgard our constitutional rights so flippantly.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:39 am
What the hell are you talking about Melle? We talk about mental illness all the time. In fact we do more than talk about it, we did something about it. Mental illness now has parity in the PPACA. This is perhaps the most crucial first step in recognizing schizophrenia, bipolar disease and clinical depression as diseases. Plus if you tune into ANY Sunday show you’ll see liberals talking about mental illness as much as gun control.
What we don’t like is your insistance that we should just accept this as the new reality.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:41 am
@306 Not everyone lives in NYC where the police force is 5 minutes away. People live in rural areas where the police force is 45 minutes away. In Kentucky, there are families that rely solely on hunting to get their meat.
Life is not always like it is in the big city.
The only way that you would have stopped this tragedy is to ban all guns(not possible or Constitutional), and even then- that is theoretical-because someone who murders little children isn’t going to let a pesky gun law get in his way of getting a gun.
I personally don’t own a gun. I have a thirteen year old son who has been to gun safety classes, but I don’t feel is responsible to have access to guns- so I choose not to have one. That does not mean that I don’t support the RIGHT to own a firearm.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:43 am
@308 Do you talk about mental illness or do you just medicate it? Do you support long term institulization of those that won’t take their meds?
December 17th, 2012 at 3:44 am
You might find this hard to believe, but many people do not read the phrase “well regulated militia” and hear “I can own as many fucking guns as I want and it is a constitutional right”. I completely disagree with your interpretation of the 2nd amendment and think that the language is extremely clear that it was not meant for individuals to be armed to the teeth with personally owned weapons meant for fighting armies.
As for your asymmetrical warfare comment, how about we don’t invade other countries? How would you react if Iranian armies were raiding your town and killing your neighbors? If you fought them and they called you a “terrorist”, would that make a difference?
December 17th, 2012 at 3:46 am
Spare me the libertarian diatribe. If you want to shoot up heroin, go at it. If you want to smoke in your home, fine. But I’m not going to accept the idea that i can’t walk into a restaraunt without breathing poison. And i also don’t accept the notion that nothing can be done about guns.
Plus its by no means a “constitutionally protected right”. The “right” has always been dependent upon serving in a militia, up until the idiot Scalia and company changed 200 years of precedent. Small wonder the guy can’t tell the difference between murder and gay marriage.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:49 am
Strongarm you silly person, America did not have a standing army at that time. Do you understand that the founding fathers meant for American citizens to spontaneously form an army, with their OWN weapons, in a time of war?
In fact, Americans were meant to be armed with personally owned weapons meant for fighting armies. That was exactly the reality.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:50 am
@312 Please read the second amendment and note the placement of the comma.. Better yet, read some of the founders actual commentary on it. Start with Madison and Henry and work your way out from there…
Funny how YOU can find the right to gay marriage in the Constitution, but the right to bear arms which is listed as plain as day “shall NOT BE INFRINGED” suddenly is negotiable.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:52 am
@311 Well then your interpretation is completely at odds with the founders. Take my advice and actually read some of their works.. mmkay.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:53 am
It’s funny because the “well-regulated militia” is supporting reasoning to the right to bear arms, but you’d think from reading some of these comments that all we have is a right to form a militia.
(By the way, liberals like the ones running the SPLC are the first to cry about “dangerous” “radical” militias. In fact, if you let a liberal know that you belong to one, they will get the shivers right then and there.)
December 17th, 2012 at 3:53 am
Yoshi you make absolutely zero sense. Thanks for the two sentence history lesson, so very informative. Now that we have a standing army, I guess there’s no reason for personal weapons? Or do you reserve the right to fight against the US Army? Should you be allowed to have a tank? Fighter jets and attack helis? Nukes? Where’s the line? After all, the 2nd amendment just says “Arms” and you don’t want that limited to muskets, do you? Fuggin nut job. I hope you don’t have any kids, because they’ll probably end up as the next Adam Lanza.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:55 am
@insipid, ever heard of a non-smoking section?
December 17th, 2012 at 3:55 am
@315: You have 4 years to wait out Scalia not croaking on the bench, otherwise your “constitutional right” will be interpreted like it was for 200 years prior: you can’t own any fucking weapon you want.
And your argument coming down to the placement of a comma? LOLLLLOOLLL!!! “well regulated militia” “i can have as many death toys as I want”
December 17th, 2012 at 3:57 am
@317
Defense of self and Defense of Property were considered by the founders natural rights… And by the way, if the founders “meant” state militias which are in fact run by states then why would they have to put the second clause in there? “the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.” Why would a state infringed on its own militia..?
And if we want to limit “arms” to the equivalent of today’s musket (used back then by the Army) then everyone would have an M-16 rifle.
I mean how absurd is that line of thinking. What you are saying is that the founders never envisioned the internet, television etc., so your first amendment right is restricted to a parchment and quill pen.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:58 am
Strongarm, tell me if you think a tank is a personal infantry weapon. Or a nuke. Please. The slippery slope argument is merely a talking point for those who haven’t done the due diligence.
In case I didn’t make that clear, let me repeat: there is no traction with claiming the legalizing of a typical rifle will lead to the legalization of tanks.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:58 am
@ progressive dipshits-
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The word I put in all caps appears frequently in the bill of rights. Am I to believe that, in only this one instance, it means something else?
Because anyone with their heads out of their asses would interpret that to mean the PEOPLE can keep and bear arms, because the people would form the well-regulated militia. The same PEOPLE whose government cannot tell them to worship a chosen god. The same PEOPLE who have the right to peaceably assemble. The same PEOPLE who are protected against illegal search and siezure.
Explain to me why, in just that one ammendment, the word “people” means something different.
And no, insipid, you don’t have the “right” to be in a smoke-free restaurant. A restaurant should be smoke free if the owner wants it to be. Don’t like it? Don’t eat there.
But it’s not about that with you lot, is it?
December 17th, 2012 at 3:58 am
@295 I fear you are correct. Not to sure what the answer is for America as you are always going to have ~.001% of the population who are willing to do something as crazy as what has recently transpired, no matter what country you live in.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:59 am
@319 Convenient way to gloss over the founder’s writings…
December 17th, 2012 at 3:59 am
Typical liberal thought…the comma is sooooo tiny…it must not mean anything!
(there is also the founders’ writings on their intent, of course)
December 17th, 2012 at 4:01 am
@322
You are forgetting for modern day liberal “people” now means the government.
For example, ” them people are going to pay for my car payment.” “Them people are going to pay for my welfare.”
December 17th, 2012 at 4:06 am
If you aren’t a member of a “well organized militia” then you should have no right to a weapon. Yes, people make up a militia. So you, as a person who wants a weapon, need to join the national guard if you have to get your gun fetish on. Freaks infatuated with, and insecure without, their guns is disturbing. No wonder we have so many of these tragedies in this country. The 2nd amendment crazies and their subversion of our culture with their love of violence is to blame for all this violence. Guns are made for one purpose, killing. Why do you love death? Does the blood of 20 children on your hands not give you pause?
December 17th, 2012 at 4:08 am
You’re acting as if the only part of the Constitution that mentions the Militia is the second amendment. The Constitution also mentions it in article one section 8:
“To provide for organizing arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; — Article 1, Section 8, Constitution of the United States”
Unless if you can show me a piece of paper that can show me that you’re “employed in the service of the United States” and that you’re subject to military discipline and military rank, you’re NOT part of the militia.
And i know you’re going to come up with a lot of dumb-ass quotes, mostly from anti-federalists, stating what the founders “really” meant. I’m not interested. This is the PLAIN language of the Constitution which CLEARLY states that the militia is an organized, military body. Not some yahoos in a pick up truck.
While it’s true that there was no standing army at the time, it’s also true that the militia of the Constitution was thought of as a MILITARY body. Unless if you’re willing to concede that the President can call up ANY gun-owner at will to fight in any war he chooses- a power the constitution clearly gives the President the right to do to the “militia” then you must concede that the militia of the Constitution is a military body.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:10 am
@327- there you go again, being an ignorant douche. I own a hammer, but I’m not a carpenter. I have wrenches, but I’m not a mechanic. I have an AR, but I’m not a mass-murderer. Nor am I crazy.
Also, the weapons used by the national guard are kept by the state, not the people. Or am I to believe that you have to join the national guard if you want to peaceably assemble as well, you fucking idiot?
December 17th, 2012 at 4:11 am
@327
Now you have really jumped the shark.. You aren’t very bright, and so you go all emotional blackmail and demonization… Face it, you don’t know the founders writings and are wrong about their intent.
You would get more respect from me if you were just honest and said that you really don’t care that it is a Constitutional Right.
BTW,are you an abortion supporter? Bet you are.. Bet you think that is a right and guess what that sole purpose is? mmmmm Killing..
December 17th, 2012 at 4:13 am
@327 & 328
How can both of you be so illiterate about the Constitution and the founders. Get off the talking points, put down the koolaid, get off the leftist blogs and read some of the founders original works. (Not what some leftist Professor etc. tells you it said.)
December 17th, 2012 at 4:13 am
Please point out where in this sentence it requires me to be a member of a “well organized militia” to peacefully assemble:
“the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances”
Oh, right, it doesn’t. That language is reserved EXCLUSIVELY to bear arms. No well organized militia — no arms.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:15 am
You know what, better yet look up the earlier drafts of the 2nd amendment and why they were rejected.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:27 am
@328- Article 1 Section 8 says congress has the ability to call forth the militia, and also to organize, arm, and form the militia. They can also form armies, and a navy. I wonder… what is the difference between the army and the militia? Could it be that the militia are… regular people? The same people who, previously stated, have the right to keep and bear arms?
With what, pray tell, would the militia train with prior to getting their federal weapons? Why would the militia be a different entity than the army, if not because of their status as citizens and not government property? Or are you now arguing that only militia members are considered people, because the government gave them their arms that they have a right to bear and keep?
December 17th, 2012 at 4:30 am
@332- you’re not that stupid, are you?
Explain to me the difference in the definition of the word “people” in the second ammendment as compared to all of the others. Why does the word “people” in the 2nd ammendment mean something different to you than the word “people” in, say, the first ammendment?
December 17th, 2012 at 4:39 am
Also, if the militia is considered a government body by you guys, then why would there need to be an ammendment in the bill of rights protecting their right to keep and bear a federally owned firearm?
December 17th, 2012 at 4:42 am
Yup, right alongside the ability to worship whatever you want, criticize the powers that be, and the right to not have your property stolen by the government, they’re listing the ability to keep and bear arms that the government gives you upon joining the militia. DERP.
Does that mean I get a shiny new A4W reactor plant to play with, courtesy of Uncle Sam? Or will they just give me an entire Nimitz-class carrier that I can keep and bear?
December 17th, 2012 at 4:50 am
The foundere HAD gund control laws, Melle. They had laws mandating that you had to have a gun, you had to have it inspected and you had to have it registered. We’ve had gun control laws since the founding of our country. The idea that the founders believed guns could not be regulated, in fact well regulated, is a fiction.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:56 am
Not only did the founders have gun control laws, but in some places in the country it was a major felony for certain people- slaves or women to own guns. It was also illegal for law-abiding white men who did not swear loyalty to the revolution to own guns.
The Founding Fathers instituted gun laws so intrusive that, were they running for office today, the NRA would not endorse them. While they did not care to completely disarm the citizenry, the founding generation denied gun ownership to many people: not only slaves and free blacks, but law-abiding white men who refused to swear loyalty to the Revolution.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/
If you want to submit to registration and yearly inspections, that is fine with me. It was certainly fine with the founding fathers.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:58 am
280,
You’ve finally said one honest thing in your laughable and pathetic tenure as a commenter here, Sippy. You aren’t interested in any reasoned conversation. You never were, and for a few hours at least you have a small gaggle of likeminded oxygen thieves with which to share your intellect-free written diarrhea.
Take your phony indignation, take the false premise that your line of thinking is the only one capable of sympathy and compassion, and cram it right up your ass.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:09 am
“The fear inspired by black people with guns also led the United States Congress to consider new gun restrictions, after the summer of 1967 brought what the historian Harvard Sitkoff called the “most intense and destructive wave of racial violence the nation had ever witnessed.” Devastating riots engulfed Detroit and Newark. Police and National Guardsmen who tried to help restore order were greeted with sniper fire. ”
From insipid’s article. Proof that gun control activists are fucking racist pricks. Also, I’d like to point out that insipid is plagiarizing from the article. Used two whole paragraphs of it before posting the link in #339.
insipid- with all the “this is what the founding fathers meant” talk you’re doing, are you suggesting that Obama pass a law requiring everyone to purchase a gun or else face a fine? Because I’m down with that, but it doesn’t seem like something you’d dig.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:18 am
Please explain to me why you think you need things like high capacity magazines or automatic or semi-automatic weapons? Certainly not for hunting. Nor for self-defense. Wouldn’t a normal handgun, shotgun, or rifle be sufficient to defend your home or property against a hostile intruder?
Perhaps you want it for the sport of target shooting. Do you really think that it makes any sense that society as a whole should be put in more danger because a tiny fraction of the population can’t get their jollies by shooting a regular gun at stuff, they need one that shoots really fast, and for a ludicrously long time. Seriously, how pathetically self involved are you that you think something as frivolous as being able to shoot really quickly or for an extended period of time before you have to reload trumps the ability for others to not have these things easily accessible to the population at large. I actually enjoy target shooting, but don’t see the need for the kind of weapons or accessories that people seem to defend as sacred.
Finally, perhaps you think you may need these things in case the gov’t ever turns ugly, and you need to fight back with more advanced weaponry. Fair enough, I actually think that the folks that wrote the second amendment saw this, as well as outside invasion as a possibility. However, if this is your position then let me point out that it wasn’t about bearing guns, it was about bearing arms. At the time this included the most up to date weaponry. Many people at the time owned their own cannons, particularly those that owned ships, so they could protect their interests from privateers. So, if that is what the 2nd amendment is about, should everyone be allowed to own RPG’s or tanks, or SAM’s? Should a private citizen be allowed to keep anthrax, or even nukes? Because those are the arms of today. Does everyone have a right to “bear” arms or not? If you say that people shouldn’t be able to have such weapons, then you really don’t believe in the second amendment. You actually believe in arms control, you just draw the line in a different point in the sand. (And if you think that everyone should be able to keep such weapons you are a moron.) So why do you support the availability of high capacity magazines or weapons that can shoot extra fast, because they really serve no purpose save the fact that some people think they are cool. Well I think blowing crap up is really cool, but I’m not ridiculous enough to think that because I would be responsible about how I would use it, that everybody and their brother should be able to go to Wal-mart and buy dynamite.
Why do people call you gun nuts? because you oppose even the slightest regulations regarding guns. Regardless of how modest or reasonable they might be.
Perhaps I’m wrong. Maybe there is a significant reason why you must possess high capacity mags and such, other than you think they are cool.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:32 am
You first.
Explain to me why you need Twitter, Facebook or even the internet as a whole in order to exercise your 1st Amendment rights (If you’re a US citizen that is). The founding fathers never imagined a scenario where anyone’s writing could instantly reach someone on the other side of the world, and even incite mass violence or cause terrible tragedies with false or inflammatory information. With your logic, it’s perfectly reasonable to think that you can exercise your free speech rights just fine by talking on a street corner, or going to the time preferred method of ink and quill.
Get back to me on those points when you’re done lighting that field of strawmen you set up and doused with linguistic gasoline in your last comment.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:35 am
@342- try paragraphs. Also, I’m not entirely convinced that I should be letting people who can’t tell the difference between a machine gun and a rifle write gun laws for me. Just like I don’t want someone reffing the superbowl who thinks scoring a home run on fourth down from the red line is possible. Call me crazy, but I believe “reasonable” gun control laws, written by people who have no fucking clue about firearms, would turn out to not be reasonable at all.
The 1994 “assault weapons ban”, for instance, banned cosmetic features of certain guns. Bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, pistol grips, etc. None of those devices make a firearm less deadly. It’s like banning the use of spoilers on those Japanese import cars. You could still own an AK-47, as long as you bought the furniture to make it look like an SKS. There was no ban on the rifle itself, just on all the stuff that made it look scary to ignorant lawmakers. Ridiculous, yet many people considered that to be “reasonable”, because they have no fucking clue about the subject that they’re legislating.
I live in NY. High capacity magazines are illegal here. NYC still sees more than it’s share of murders. Shall we ban all box magazines now?
December 17th, 2012 at 5:38 am
Even the LAPD was horribly outgunned in the North Hollywood shootout of 1997, so much to the point they had to borrow high powered weapons and high capacity “clips” from a local gun shop. The world is not a nice place, never really has been. Turning your head/burying it in the sand and repeating over and over “it just ain’t so” whilst dreaming of skittle farting unicorns and chocolate rivers with a chorus of singing ladybugs won’t change a thing, any more than the false notion that choosing to become a victim will somehow gain you moral superiority. Criminals don’t follow laws, that’s why they’re called criminals. Gun control will only diminish a law abiding citizen’s ability to defend him or herself against better armed criminals. Think it’s the same old rhetoric, well the theatre in Colorado, Virginia Tech, the school in CT were all “gun free zones”. I honestly think some of you believe anyone carrying a weapon into a so called gun free zone will instantly vaporize. Trust me, I’ve heard crazier shit from some of you folks. But I digress. Law abiding citizens will follow such a sign. Criminals, well, we’ve all seen the result of putting our faith in a fucking sign.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:02 am
NHSparky: the “Iz it zafe” quote is from the Gell? Zell? character in Marathon Man. He repeated the question at intervals as he was torturing a guy via drilling his teeth without anesthetic in order to elicit info from him.
Geez – teh stoopid was strong on the interwebz last night, and paid us multiple visits.
But I have to give Sippy the Pinhead kudos; he did come up with a novel bit of lunacy. I do believe that’s the first time I’ve ever seen governmental abuses from the pre-Constitutional era of US history actually used to justify undercutting the Bill of Rights – which was adopted precisely due to fears about such governmental abuses in the future. Making that argument is semantically equivalent to arguing that “the British used to prosecute people for treason for insulting the king, so we need to change the definition of treason in the Constitution to allow prosecution for treason for insulting Federal officials today.”
Bravo, Sippy. New and ludicrous idiocy is always entertaining.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:04 am
@312: “Plus its by no means a “constitutionally protected right”. The “right” has always been dependent upon serving in a militia, up until the idiot Scalia and company changed 200 years of precedent.”
The usual response about the Constitution from the anti-gunners is a tired and disproved argument. If you were to go further into it, you would see in the Federalist Papers, you know, the ones that explain the language of the Constitutional Amendments, that it did not just cover militias. By your standard, abortion is illegal, because it isn’t covered in the Constitution, either, as a right. So, no, you are wrong, as usual, no matter whether you think it has been settled law for 200 years. The next tired, lame, argument would be “it only covers muskets”. Well, the 1st Amendment doesn’t cover radio, tv, telephones, or the internet; so according to that logic, none of those mediums are protected vehicles for free speech, either. Also, in the 1st Amendment, schools aren’t mentioned as being Congressional departments that make law, so praying in school, or having the Ten Commandments or Nativity Scenes displayed isn’t covered since Congress isn’t recognizing it as official State religion; correct?
I know that it sucks for you that you don’t even understand the Constitution and your arrogance insures that you never will.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:06 am
@341- generally speaking if I link to something after I wrote something it is precisely BECAUSE i “lifted” it. Generally speaking we don’t use words like “plagiarism” on a message board anyway. It’s a message board, not a treatise. At the most you can accuse me of not using quotation marks correctly.
Even my harshest critics here would have a hard time maintaining that i don’t give my sources. In fact, probably the criticism raised against me the most is that my sources are all supposedly “liberal” (another name for not-right-wing-propoganda)
@340- It’s not “phony indignation” it’s very real. And yes, i do firmly believe that you do not give a shit about those kids or the “Union thugs” who gave their lives protecting them. I believe all you care about is your guns. You’re not protecting your right, you’re protecting your fetish. You’re sick, pathetic and demented.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:18 am
Well you PLEASE stop it with the idiotic talking-point that you have to be complete experts on munitions in order to have an opinion about guns.
People have opinions on all sorts of things without being an expert on it. They have opinions about abortions without knowing the first thing about the female body as is evidenced by former Cognressmen Akin and Walsh, much less on how to perform and abortion, people have opinions about violence in movies and music without knowing how to record a song or film a movie, people have opinions on nuclear arms without being able to explain nuclear physics.
We know that guns kill about 9k people a year and that very few of those people are killed while committing crimes.
I do actually recognize that gun confiscation is impossible. However, i, and the founding fathers, did believe that gun ownership entailed some responsibilities. I don’t think registration is unreasonable, i don’t think training is unreasonable. It’s a deadly weapon, not a toy, and people should be aware of the dangers of this weapon and how to use it and when you should NOT have it in your house. I don’t need to know the type of steel in each model in order to have an opinion that they should be treated with care.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:20 am
Sippy the Pinhead, Strongarm, et al: each time you voice that “you have to be a member of an organized militia to be covered by the 2nd Amendment” canard, you merely display your ignorance over the legal definition of the term – as well as your ignorance of the English language in general.
Here’s how you demonstrate your ignorance regarding the definition of militia. by Federal law, the US militia is defined (10 USC 311) as all able-bodied males between the ages of 17 and 45 plus all persons who are members of either the Federal Reserves or the National Guard. (Collectively, these latter two form what is defined in Federal law as the “organized militita”.) One is not required to be a member of any organization to be part of the militia; if you’re an able-bodied male between 17 and 45, by Federal law you are – whether you want to be or not. Period.
And in fact, the 2nd Amendment does not even refer to “organized militia”. It merely states the obvious: a militia should be well regulated.
This definition of militia in Federal has remained generally the same since 1792, by the way. The sole changes have been to remove racial and gender exclusions that were present in virtually all laws during Colonial and early US history.
Second: to anyone who can read and understand English, the first part of the 2nd Amendment (“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, . . . .”) is clearly a declaration of intent vice an operative definition. I’m always amazed at the number of people who are apparently so unschooled (or so mendacious) as to be unable to recognize and/or acknowledge that fact. But if it makes you feel better, just go ahead and continue deluding yourselves on that point.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:30 am
So your government can sell illegal weaponry to Mexican cartels, where firearms are illegal, and you trust them with to keep the peace on this side of the fence? Especially when the gun killed an AMERICAN CITIZEN. 4 more AMERICAN CITIZENS were killed in Benghazi, but your biggest worry is if someone has an AR to defend their farm from hogs, wolves, etc.?
You liberals have lost your collective fucking minds, sippy.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:31 am
Kitchen knives and meat cleavers are similarly not toys, can be deadly, and require training for safe operation, Sippy. How about a legal requirement to (1) produce a certificate of training before buying one, and (2) to register them afterwards? Or maybe chainsaws? Or chlorine bleach? Or Drano? Or ice picks? Or fertilizer and diesel fuel and nails? Or any one of a myriad of other household/otherwise common products that can kill if misused or abused?
Just like firearms, these are all tools. Tools are neither inherently evil or good. They can all be used or abused.
And, to state the obvious: automobiles are indeed required to be licensed and registered, and pre-operation training is required. Yet automobiles kill more people annually than firearms in the US. So it’s rather obvious that registration isn’t exactly a panacea regarding the prevention of deaths from hazardous items.
Your argument is not logical when examined. But I long ago gave up expecting logic from you.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:33 am
From Federalis # 29- a Well Regulated Militia
“It requires no skill in the science of war to discern that uniformity in the organization and discipline of the militia would be attended with the most beneficial effects, whenever they were called into service for the public defense. It would enable them to discharge the duties of the camp and of the field with mutual intelligence and concert an advantage of peculiar moment in the operations of an army; and it would fit them much sooner to acquire the degree of proficiency in military functions which would be essential to their usefulness. This desirable uniformity can only be accomplished by confiding the regulation of the militia to the direction of the national authority.” (See? Quote!)
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa29.htm
So, you’re just wrong when you say the Federalist papers did not describe the Militia as a military body.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:34 am
@285:
First off; you lost the argument by using the Brady Bunch as your source. They are less than truthful and allow a lot of hyperbole and hysteria to infiltrate their “facts”.
1- You have to be 21 to legally purchase a handgun per federal law.
2- I fail to see where your bedwetting diatribe on this means anything at all.
3- You are stating facts that are not in evidence and are disputed, since this is an ongoing case. Your bedwetting bias is showing. I suppose, in your mind, it was proper for Zimmerman to just let Martin beat and possibly kill him, instead? If someone threatens me in public and my life is in danger, I am not going to become a victim. You can if you want to, but I’m not.
4- So, bedwetters like you are threatened by the sight of a gun? How many criminals do you know that open carry? If you look at the Constitution, it doesn’t say anywhere in it, or the Federalist Papers, that you have the “right” to “feel” safe.
5- Have you ever been to a gun show? I didn’t think so. So, what you’re basing your “facts” on is more hyperbole and wishful thinking by your sources.
6- If properly trained teachers or other faculty members had been armed in Newtown, the outcome would probably been different, although I will concede, that is an assumption, same as all the bedwetters assuming many things based on their own bias and fears, not on facts.
Everything you have listed is nothing more than an attempt to drum up fear and use emotion based on that fear as the basis for your argument. Nothing you have listed is based on logic or common sense, which is what I expect from anti-gun types. Maybe if we got back to personal responsibility, discipline, and accountability in this country, instead of blaming everything we do wrong on someone or something else, we could actually have less crap like this latest tragedy? The gun is an inanimate object. It has no feelings, no morals, no conscience. It doesn’t speak, it doesn’t jump into someone’s hands and go out to kill someone. That takes a person. What people like you and Insipid fail to grasp is that I have the right to protect myself, whether out in public or in my home and it is not up to you, or those like you, to tell me how I can do that. People like you think that it’s perfectly fine for a woman to kill her child, just because it’s in the womb, because it’s “her choice”, yet you don’t want me to have the choice of how to defend and protect myself. That makes you a hypocrite.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:34 am
@348- Linking the article and using quotes from it is fine, as long as they are in quotation marks. Using someone else’s words without proper attribution, wether in a high school report, in a speech, or on a message board, is plagiarism. Just ask Joe Biden about that.
@349- I don’t expect someone to be an expert on something in order to have an opinion about it. I do, however, expect a small ounce of knowledge concerning firearms from the people making laws about them. Just as I would expect the persons writing traffic laws to know a thing or two abnout driving.
Because progressives expect less of your representatives, we get half-wits like Hank “Guam will capcize” Johnson and Alan “runnin’ red lights” Grayson in office.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:36 am
@354: I never said that the Federalist Papers didn’t describe a militia. I said that there is more in the Federalist Papers THAN a militia. Reading comprehension is your friend.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:39 am
Aren’t you tired of embarasing yourself, Hondo? As i’ve pointed out in that same law it also uses the term called to service. Plus i’m not getting rid of all guns, i’m advocating responsibility. That if you’re going to have a gun that you should be trained with it. That you should be aware of its dangers. That it should be registered and that you should be required to report it if it is stolen.
Basically i agree with the standpoing of the guy who wrote the article i linked to. The people who want all guns taken away are unreasonable AND the people who see EVERY regulation on guns as this inevitable slippery slope to door to door confiscations are also unreasonable.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:40 am
348,
There you go projecting again. Only someone with the traits you falsely proscribe to others can go through the immense feat of mental gymnastics it takes to irrationally defame and demonize people who had absolutely nothing to do with a horrific act of pure evil. You want to talk about a “fetish”? Let’s talk about the fetishes of demented vultures who wait breathlessly for every such evil act, only to swoop in for a pound of flesh and use the bodies of the innocent as a bully pulpit for their control freak agendas. Only a sick, pathetic and demented person like yourself could take the selfless sacrificial acts of these teachers, degrade their individual heroism by wrongfully imparting it upon uninvolved third parties based on a single tenuous connection who have not collectively shown this trait, and then suggest that anyone who disagrees with you doesn’t respect or honor their actions.
TL;DR version: Go eat a bowl of dick.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:43 am
Also, Sippy “the Pinhead” actully was right when he told you that the mandate was a tax and that the SC would affirm the health care law based on that. I recall you were wrong on that one.
You also embarassed yourself when you couldn’t understand how something can be counted as a tax for one statute, but not another. Something so basic in law that you should really of ran with your tail between your legs from all further debate.
Then you embarassed yourself even more when you were incapable of even proving ONE element of fraud when you bloviated that Social Security was a ponzi scheme.
So basically, your cheering section not withstanding, if we were actually to take our debates before any real lawyers or judges, you’d be laughed at. In short, you know nothing about the law, and our quite an ignorant jack ass. But it is amusing to see you flail.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:49 am
@359- We don’t have to wait very long for such “evil acts” do we? They’re pretty common thanks to so called compassionat conservatives whose only compassion seems to be for guns and sadism. You want a world where people like the killer have nowhere to go because you’ve taken away parity for mental health because- bootstraps. You want a world where pediatricians can’t even warn parents on how to properly store guns (the second amendment is so important we have to destroy the first to save it!). You want a world where the only recourse against the gun is the gun. I reject your world and find that world, and those who advocate it to be sick and demented.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:53 am
Excuse me when you use the term “bedwetters” are you referring to the 6 and 7 year old victims of this horrible crime or liberals who are trying to stop further “bedwetters” from being shot in their schools?
December 17th, 2012 at 6:57 am
@354- lol. That piece that you quoted talked about keeping the populace trained, so that when they’re called up to form a militia, they can augment the army’s capacity to fight without much additional training. As in, the people that make up the militia should already have the basics down, like shooting, making a fire, and setting up camps so when they’re pressed into service to serve alongside the army, there is minimal training time needed to make them useful.
You’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
“It requires no skill in the science of war to discern that uniformity in the organization and discipline of the militia would be attended with the most beneficial effects, whenever they were called into service for the public defense.”
Means that it doesn’t take an expert to figure out that a baseline knowledge of military matters held by the people within the militia would be most beneficial when they were called upon to serve. I don’t recall what you said you did in the military, but it probably required you to learn how to fire a rifle. This passage means that if folks aready know how to shoot, the feds could skip that part when grabbing conscripts for a militia.
” It would enable them to discharge the duties of the camp and of the field with mutual intelligence and concert an advantage of peculiar moment in the operations of an army; and it would fit them much sooner to acquire the degree of proficiency in military functions which would be essential to their usefulness.”
Tey’d be able to shoot straight and set up their own campsites. There would be minimal training required to make them functional on the battlefield. Probably training on rank recognition and marching formations.
“This desirable uniformity can only be accomplished by confiding the regulation of the militia to the direction of the national authority.”
Means that states shouldn’t have their own rules concerning the preparedness of the populace to form a militia. The feds set the standards, because the feds run the army that the militia would have to act in concert with.
Now, if you would, please tell me if, as you insist, the militia is a federal entity- why the fuck does the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms refer to only those who are controlled by the federal government? Why would all of the other rights in the bill of rights pertain to a different set of people? Why isn’t the army ( a separate entity, as you’ve quoted) also given that right, then? Are we to assume that the army does not have the right to bear arms, but a civilian militia does? I don’t understand your twisted logic on this matter.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:58 am
@381: Where did any of us state that we don’t want to properly store guns in our homes, when children are present? Where have we taken away mental health issues? You are projecting your bias, once again. Saying that our only compassion is guns an sadism? Really? Where the fuck do you disseminate that? You have yet to tie in how a gun causes crime, yet you want to go after the gun immediately as the focus. Why not go after alcohol, since there are more drunk driver caused deaths in this country than by guns shooting innocent victims. Using your logic, we could deduce that if we take away alcohol, then we wouldn’t have drunk drivers out there killing kids on the roads; true?
December 17th, 2012 at 7:01 am
@362: LOL!! Nice try, dumbfuck. You guys will use anything you think will get an emotional response, because you are driven by emotion and that’s why I call you bedwetters. You live in fear and with the mental and emotional capacity of a 6-7 year old.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:02 am
Re: 364
that should be @361
December 17th, 2012 at 7:08 am
OT, let no crisis go to waste. People like instupid do it all the time.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:08 am
361, you could go read the link I posted at 258 and learn that the facts don’t jive with your self-constructed view of the issue, or you can just keep on keeping on with your puffed-up buffoonery. I’m quite confident that you will take option 2.
As for the field of strawmen you just lit on fire:
1) I’m perfectly fine with mental health as a public health issue, so that the prison system isn’t the only place that deals with these situations. I was a cop for several years and worked in a jail for a time, so I guarantee I’ve dealt with more people that truly needed that needed this sort of help than your ignorant ass.
2) I don’t care if doctors advise this, as long as it isn’t a legal requirement and people who don’t need the lecture can find another doc. If you’re truly concerned about the need for physicians to impart safety wisdom for potentially dangerous tools, lets go whole hog and talk about cars and power tools too. Personally, I’d rather leave a doctor’s time as free as possible to focus on issues actually in their lane. My good friend and shooting range partner is a physician, and he agrees with me here.
3) As soon as strongly worded letters and chocolate chip cookies are demonstrably proven to stop the actions if deranged people or power-hungry tyrants, consider me signed on to the whole “no using the gun as a recourse against the gun” thing. I won’t hold my breath.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:11 am
Sippy: quit lying and/or attempting to change the subject, dipstick. I said not a single word above about the Federalist papers, and you know that to be fact.
In any case, your argument falls in the “true but irrelevant” category. the Federalist Papers were never Federal law. They were arguments produced to justify various points of view by various Founding Fathers. Some of those arguments made it into the Constitution and Federal law; some didn’t.
And in point of fact, you’re obviously a bit ignorant of the history of the Federalst Papers and some of the authors. Or, and I suspect more likely, you’re deliberately “cherry picking” quotes out of context to bolster your argument – though it’s also possible you’re ignorant enough you don’t realize that.
The Federalist Paper you quote was authored by Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton argued for many things that were never adopted in either the Constitution or Federal law. He actually argued at the Constitutional Convention in favor of making the office of President “for life”. He also produced a draft Constitution (never presented for debate) that would have in fact made both the President and US Senators lifetime offices. By most of the other Founding Fathers, he was considered somewhat of a monarchist and an advocate for dangerously big central government. It does not surprise me that Hamilton would argue in favor for a large, Federally-controlled organized militia.
And in fact, the Constitution adopted part of what Hamilton proposed, while explicitly rejecting establishing a Federal militia. Though the Constitution does not create any Federal militia, it does authorize Congress to prescribe “organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States (emphasis added), reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress”. The Constitution also gives Congress the power to prescribe for calling forth the militia. Both authorities may be found in Article 1, Section 8, US Constitution.
The Congress further clarified the situation in 1792 by the Militia Acts of that year. And the 2nd Amendment is similarly neutral, recognizing the need for “a militia” to be “well regulated”, but not specifying that the militia so needed must be either organized or Federal.
In fact, a Federal “organized militia” (e.g., Federal reserve armed forces) was not created until the early 1900s. (Look up the Dick Act.) Prior to that time, militias were strictly state or volunteer organizations; all Federal forces were regular. And even today, 10 USC 311 clearly states that the militia of the United States consists of far more than the Federal Reserves and the National Guard.
In short: once again, you were out to lunch Sippy. Try again.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:14 am
Stupid iPad autocorrect garbled a few things on my last comment, but the point came across.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:32 am
So, I see that after I retired for the night, John Cole’s worldwide fan club turned into…………drum roll…… INSIPID. Bwahahahahahahahahah.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:33 am
I guess Sippy the Pinhead thinks Paul Krugman is an idiot, too – since Krugman appears to have publicly stated that Social Security has “Ponzi game aspects” and that “the Ponzi game will soon be over, thanks to changing demographics”.
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR21.6/krugmann.html
Not to mention the fact that Social Security does indeed seems to meet several other definitions of “Ponzi scheme”:
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=28975
The sole reason Social Security is legal is because the Federal government passed a law allowing the Federal government to do it. If any private entity tried to do the same, those responsible would end up in cells next to Bernie Madoff.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:56 am
“If there was any justice in the world, Wayne LaPierre would choke to death on filet mignon at
the next NRA fundraiser.”
Hear, hear! It looks like the real world broke into your gun fantasies, guys. Just for a bit. Surprised no one’s been shot yet
December 17th, 2012 at 9:00 am
Fucking hippie shit everywhere.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:08 am
@347 Hondo–congrats–you win 10 Internets.
Also the primary reason I hate going to the dentist to this day. Not that I DON’T go, trolls–I just don’t LIKE to go.
Please explain to me why you think you need things like high capacity magazines or automatic or semi-automatic weapons?
Zombies, man. They’re fuckin coming.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:08 am
Jonn, at least TAH’s lawn should be really green next spring. (smile)
December 17th, 2012 at 9:10 am
You don’t even know what a hippie is. I went to Vietnam three times as a volunteer (1967–71).
Three times in my life I have had a handgun pulled and pointed at me, close up. The first was at age 15. Each time I faced the gun nut down, that first time he forgot I was holding a garden hose in my hand, and he got soaked.
If I’d had a gun in my hand, he might have been dead. Ditto the other two assholes, who backed down when I didn’t.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:15 am
At least it’s been confined to one stall, Jonn.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:19 am
You’re quite a lucky guy, Calhoun. But you’re pushing the odds. You might not want to count on being that lucky again in the future.
Having a knife – or a water hose – when your opponent has a gun is not exactly a long-term winning strategy.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:19 am
“I went to Vietnam three times as a volunteer (1967–71).” Photojournalism doesn’t count.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:20 am
“You don’t even know what a hippie is.” Med issues?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:21 am
Hey hippies and Balloon Knots,…
If I punched you in the face, would you blame me, or my fist?
Would it make my fist an “assault fist”?
What if I punched you in the face repeatedly in a fast manner?
Would it be a “high capacity” fist?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:22 am
#377 Those are hippies, they smell similar, but are less producti-… Nevermind.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:24 am
@345: Just because you don’t want “high capacity magazines” doesn’t mean you have the right to tell anyone else they can’t have them. If you are a shooter, as you claim, then your description of guns that “shoot really fast” is a really stupid statement. Semi-automatic is just that. There are a lot of hunting rifles that are semi-automatic, so I will pose the question to you; why do you need a semi-automatic, that shoots really fast, for hunting? Why do you need more than a single shot rifle for hunting? The thing is; it’s not about hunting and never has been. That you are fixated on what you perceive to be the issue shows that you aren’t at all what you say you are. If you were versed on firearms, you would know that there is a big difference between arms and explosives. That you mention the same old tired mantra framed as common sense shows that you haven’t the foggiest idea about the difference. If you want to own a cannon; go ahead, but good luck finding ammunition for it. Plus, if the round has any explosives in it, it isn’t considered an “arm”, anymore, but rather an explosive. Your argument falls flat on the face of it.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:30 am
JP, you simply would not be able to. Pretty confident about that
I’m in pretty good shape for 65.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:32 am
“Photojournalism doesn’t count.” We sure can count on you guys for the ad hominen. It’s your first reaction. Part of how you stay so isolated from reality, shooting (ahem) the messengers
December 17th, 2012 at 9:34 am
“LTC Dave Grossman had it right in “On Combat.” Guns=loud=scary. Guns are no more or less deadly than knives or bats, they are just louder and scarier.”
Guns are not just “louder and scarier”, douchebag. Try killing 27 people with a knife or a gun and see how far that gets you. Guns can kill more people faster than any other weapon civilian citizens might have–aside, maybe, from some kind of bomb–and they can kill from farther away. You can’t beat somebody to death with a baseball bat or stab them to death from across the room, let alone from hundreds of feet.
You people really are beyond help. You’re so fucking scared of every little thing. As John Cole put it at his blog, you’re scared to go shopping without your guns. You’re scared to go to church without your guns. You really are the biggest pussies on God’s green Earth. It must be sad to be you. But as sorry as I feel for you, well, still, fuck all of you.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:34 am
@387…
It was a rhetorical question, I didn’t really expect any of you to get it.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:34 am
@379: Good for you. I have actually been shot. I have also been stabbed. I have been in car accidents and have permanent hardware in my body. I, also, have permanent remnants of being shot. And yet, with all of that, I still don’t see the need to ban high speed cars (you really don’t need a high speed car), knives, or guns.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:36 am
Nice visiting your tribe. Bye now.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:40 am
@389: Nice retort, there, sport. Fuck you very much. When you or your boyfriend are getting your ass kicked and robbed, just remember that you are holding the moral high ground. And please don’t come back with the usual “I’m in really good shape, so I ain’t worried about getting beat up”, because you ain’t all that.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:41 am
Ok who hurt the dentist’s feelings? I bet someone’s gettin a fucked up root canal because of this douche bucket’s anger issues.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:41 am
@392: What’s wrong? Are you not able to have a reasonable discussion like you came here pretending to wanted? Is it because you are reacting with emotion versus logic and common sense? That tells me all I needed to know about you.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:42 am
* forgot to add “have” in between to and wanted.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:44 am
Sippy was up all night bitch slapping anyone who disagreed with him about anything he/she/it said?
Wow. Either Sippy’s unemployed and now has too much time on his/her hands or the acid indigestion that comes from being a harpy overpowered the box of baking soda in the kitchen cupboard.
It was amazing, the amount of sheer hatred that generated Strongarm’s vilification of people who disagree with him: “you cellar-dwelling, cheeto-addicted weirdos”. That doesn’t make any sense, since no one who usually visits here lives in a basement, not even Sippy. And Cheet-ohs? Must have been out of his favorite food.
And then he quotes two of Rupert Murdoch’s tabloids, not the original sources that I used, one of which is from a local TV station, and by local, I mean the Chicago area, which is where I live. The worst quote is from WND, an online tabloid which has been sued for libel and lost, and has routinely made false statements to generate PR for itself.
And then instupid charges in and spends the entire night in a bitch-slapping contest over words, words, words.
WAYYYY too much time on Sippy’s hands. Sippy should put more time into finding a job.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:50 am
Pretty good shape for 65 means you don’t shit in a bag Terry. Nothing to brag about really…
December 17th, 2012 at 9:58 am
Your rant (and particularly your obsession with Cole’s referring to magazines as “ammo clips”) would have carried a lot more weight if you could spell Beretta correctly.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:04 am
Damn, Zap–you might wanna hit the nitrous this morning. You seem to be wound up awful tight.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:06 am
Actually, I had more issues with his characterization of Camp Doha as the most dangerous place on earth in 1991 & 1992. Grafenwoehr was more dangerous than Camp Doha. And, yes, me misspelling an Italian word carries a lot of weight in this discussion. Hippies everywhere.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:13 am
Fuck, from the people I know who were at Doha in the early 90′s, it sounds like Guam was a more dangerous place at that time.
Finally, pay the spelling Nazis no mind–and no, hippies, Godwin’s Law was not just officially invoked.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:17 am
Ex-PH2: Sippy claimed some time ago that he worked for a “large law firm”. ‘Course, he never did say exactly what he did there, and as far as I can recall he never did claim to be a lawyer. So for all I know, he might transcribe depositions or run their copy room.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:18 am
Oh, and for the “anti-gun nuts” who think it’s ludicrous that if all guns are banned, then the feel-good libbies wouldn’t come after knives next, consider that there were a couple of douchebag Boston city council memebers who proposed exactly that.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:19 am
I don’t understand any of these arguments, if that’s what they are.
Like this one: I don’t like guns. I don’t want a gun. Therefore, I don’t want anyone else to have a gun.
Or this one: Guns are horrible. People who own guns are therefore horrible.
Well, guess what? No one is forcing anyone to own a gun. Got that part, you self-involved blindworms?
I don’t own a gun. I don’t feel the need for one. I lived in Chicago for 32 years, never owned a gun, never wanted one, never felt the need for one. And that was long before all the restrictive gun bans went into effect in the city. The only people who actually had LOTS of guns, besides the cops, were gangbangers and criminals, and they were, still are, mostly on the south side. Englewood was one of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago for a long time. Still has problems — WITH GANGS, NOT WITH RESIDENTS, but the residents are activists who have taken their neighborhood back.
The real problem is violence. Anything can be turned into a weapon, as I and others have pointed out above, and I mean ANYTHING. This obvious quality either escapes the notice of the rabid left, or is conveniently ignored.
You don’t need guns to commit mass murder. I think that was more than aptly demonstrated by Terry Nichols and Tim McVeigh, and by the WTC truck bombing in 1991. The Unibomber had a field day with his homemade bombs, until he was finally caught. And the Tylenol murders in the 1970s — random acts of violence with cyanide-loaded Tylenol capsules — has never been truly solved. Should I bring up John Gacey’s homosexual murder spree. Not all of his victims have yet been identified.
Should I dig into the history of Torquemada’s Inquisition and the auto da fey? The witch hunts and political executions en masse in the Middle Ages? The Slaughter of the Innocents ordered by Herod when he was told that a recently born child would some day replace him? No guns used in any of these episodes of violence. Maybe we should discuss Stalin’s purges again. Or how about the BTK killer?
People who are going to engage in that kind of behavior don’t need a gun to do it. That’s just a quicker way to get it done. The real problem is that no one is willing to address the true issue, that violence is always unexpected and the tendency to violence is frequently hidden or ignored, ir if not ignored, then the “wish you’d just straighten up” attitude rises and nothing is done about it.
Hindsight about these things is always crystal clear. Heated discussion erupts everywhere, everyone is wrong on both sides of the table, and then it dies away and people go back to doing their thing, and nothing is done about it until the next time, when fear generates the same anger and same heated arguments, name-calling, disputes, and vilification of anyone who disagrees with anyone else.
Well, there is definitely a copycat crime being planned somewhere right now, especially since Doomsday is coming up in short order, so batten down the hatches.
Sometimes, I don’t really miss TV.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:19 am
Hondo–IIRC, he at one point claimed to be a paralegal.
Hey, in the mind of a liberal, that makes him about as much of a “law professor” as Dear Reader.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:26 am
@403 – Hondo, I’d agree with you but when I was still in the workaday world, staying up all night usually meant I had a bodacious load of overtime, and therefore, no time for personal stuff.
Sipply was on TAH almost all of last night. The people I remained in contact with at my old law firm have told me that there have been serious layoffs of clerical staff and no one is getting ANY overtime now. It’s logical to think, then, that Sippy may no longer be employed at that large law firm.
So I was just speculating about it, nothing else.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:30 am
A para, huh? I guess I missed that one among his other inane comments.
But that could explain much. I understand people who’ve failed to attain their aspirations but stay in the same career field anyway often become bitter and illogical. And they often don’t handle being told they’re “full if it” well – especially when they are. Perhaps denial and anger directed at the successful are their coping mechanisms.
Why? Hell, maybe being told they’re wrong reminds them they failed previously. Who knows?
December 17th, 2012 at 10:33 am
So internet tough guys like Cole are allowed to spout their sissy garbage to their hearts desire over at his cesspool, but the second their dear leader gets insulted all his cronies over at his site come screaming over here? What a bunch of pathetic slimy worms.
I’ll make them a deal. I think accountability is the first step to addressing any problem. Having said that, since guns are so evil, they need to request that anyone ever coming to their aid do so without firearms. Simple solution, I think.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:35 am
Jesse Jackson is on WGN telling us that military-style weapons can bring down airplanes, shoot up buildings, etc., etc., etc.
Who else was it that said that? Someone in Congress?
Where do these people get this crap?
December 17th, 2012 at 10:38 am
Probably shitty movies on syfy.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Jack Burton: I certainly don’t see them advocating for a disarmed police and military – just restrictions on the “average Joe”.
Obviously, they believe the government can protect them at all times. They persist in that belief in spite of clear evidence to the contrary, and in spite of the fact that the SCOTUS has ruled government has no legal obligation to do so. I’m guessing they believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and unicorns that shit Skittles, too.
They would deserve pity if they weren’t trying to impose their idiotic world-view on all.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:56 am
26 in a single location is tough, it brings up a lengthy debate because politicians feel compelled to do something. Banning guns gets quick airplay, soundbites on the evening news and publicity for the politician who seems to be “doing something” about a problem….
14,000 folks were the victims of murder/non-negligent homicide last year, because they killed one or two at a time all over the nation nobody really gives a sh1t about them….folks at a mall, a movie theater, or a grammar school that catches our eye because it’s a bigger number all in once place. And of course Friday’s victims are beyond comprehension for most folks….we are less violent than we used to be when we had about 65 crime related a deaths a day. One could argue that advances in policing, stricter sentencing, and technology have had the desired effect and reduced violent crime in the nation dramatically from 20 years ago according the to the FBI’s own website:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1
Therefore one could also draw the conclusion, without hysteria, that continued advances will help decrease the crime rate even further. People like Friday’s perp are mental health issues that need to be addressed with a sensible conversation devoid of ACLU histrionics. The level of mental health deterioration for some of our citizens requires lengthy, if not permanent, stays in an institutional environment where the society at large can be protected. Having an intelligent discussion about monitoring these people instead of dumping them and forgetting them is not easy or comfortable, but will probably yield a more effective solution to potentially violent mentally ill individuals.
That of course doesn’t generate the publicity that the anti-gun crowd requires to perpetrate their agenda.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:01 am
Wow John, You were right this morning! Cole brought quite a few of his “friends” into the fray! It must be the lovely sunshine and cool water of the Cheat that muddles their minds. Unfortunately for me, I know him and probably some of the ones posting on his behalf.
It does surprise me that they could be so ignorant of how the rest of the US “gun nuts” like myself would fight against any form of control. It must be that they fail to realize that they live in an area saturated by firearms. No one in their right mind would want to attempt anything close to what happened in CT. In Preston, Tucker, Grant or Mineral counties of WV. It would be a very short act of violence ending with a very dead Dumb Ass. I for one would love to carry a firearm 100% of the time and NEVER have to use it, verses, ever need one and not having it. I have a beautiful Grand Daughter who is with me quite a bit of the time. If anything would threaten her and I could not protect her because of the dipshits that think banning guns is a good Idea, I know who my targets would be after that.
John Cole, you are wrong on this matter and you know it. Your attack on the folks of this forum is way off base. I have been in some of the same situations as you regarding taped magazines and YES, it was for accountability reasons. Having “No Gun” zones on a military base has nothing to do with gun control, historically, it comes form traditions passed down through the years.
If what is coming from the Kingwood crowd is now the norm, I am very happy not to be associated with them.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:13 am
I don’t own a gun, although I do enjoy going shooting and many of my family and friends own firearms and shoot regularly. And to a person, every one of them are the most safety conscious people I know with all things regarding weapons. That includes care and cleaning, securing, safety and respect. I don’t know a single gun owner who doesn’t take ownership of guns with the highest degree of respect for what they can do and what can happen in the hands of idiots. Go to your local range and tell me how many careless jackasses you see in their waving their guns around and talking about shooting people. My guess is consistently zero.
The anti-gun zealots have this notion in their pathetic little minds about what the typical NRA member or gun owner is all about. In most cases I’d say its a by-product of the liberal echo chamber, or every now and then from some clown like John Cole. As an alleged ex-military guy, he’s their gift from heaven as they feel someone like that gives them absolute moral authority to comment on all things gun related.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:22 am
Upthread strongarm goes on and on about Vermont’s open carry law without once taking notice of the fact that none of the mass shooting incidents he is supposedly so concerned about ever happens there-or why that might be.
There’s no reaching some people.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:25 am
Yeah, if you fucking hippie fucks keep wishing that someone would die while you’re using my bandwidth, I’ll turn the firehose on all of you.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:25 am
Wow. I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of pussies in my life. A lot of you call yourselves Soldiers, or servicemembers, but you all sound so chickenshit that without your gun you couldn’t do anything. Maybe my era of Soldier is made of sterner stuff because we have the confidence to do our jobs regardless of the weapon. Bunch a disgraceful shitbags in here.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:33 am
Cassidy,
Calling some a pussy from behind the safety net of the interwebz sorta invalidates whatever point you were trying to make.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:35 am
Sippy is really bothered about those 20 kids. Good for him, I’m impressed. How concerned is he about the approximate 324,000 children killed by Planned Parenthood via abortion last year? Not so much, I guess. Bet he still argues in favor of THAT “right”. And we’re heartless…riiiiiight
December 17th, 2012 at 11:40 am
@414 and 415 – Good points, but next, they’ll want the ban of movies with violence in their content.
I love Quentin Tarantino’s movies, and it’s not because they are loaded with violence, but because he has the go-for-broke angle in every one of them. His latest release in “Django”, which is full of movie violence. I’ve seen “Kill Bill” at least a dozen times, but I haven’t gone and bought a samurai sword and run around slicing people with it. I’ve seen “Inglorious Basters” twice, but I haven’t set fire to a theater with locked doors.
Sam Peckinpah was famous for his movie violence and slow-motion shots of people being shot, but no one saw gun violence rise as a result of people watching his movies.
But, VOV, if someone threatens to set his wife on fire and go shoot ‘lots of people’ where she works, because he and she had a fight and he’s blowing off steam (per police in Cedar Point, IN), does that make him mentally ill? No. It means he was angry and needs to get marriage counseling.
99% of threats of violence are no more likely to be acted on than you intentionally driving your car through a hot dog stand. If I say “I’m gonna kill that sumbitch”, is that an actual threat? No. It’s not even a sign of mental illness. It’s just hot air.
When you say, VOV, that these people need to be instituionalized, who is going to make that determination? The state? Isn’t that the “Big Brother” thing that should never happen in the first place?
Our society as a whole has become one that refuses to deal with genuine emotions such as anger and fear, because they are too intense. If someone so much as raises his voice in public, he HAS to be crazy. Real anger is now considered to be socially unacceptable behavior. It’s loud, it is noisy, it is palpable, and it is threatening. That doesn’t make it a mental illness, but because it is threatening and generates fear in others, the angry person must be ‘crazy’.
Everything has to be just fine. You know — maintain an even strain. Never let that shit-eating grin leave your face, no matter how you really feel. You bury how you really feel until you can’t contain it any more, and then, like Charles Whitman, you ‘snap’ and commit another horror.
Oh, god! It’s the 1960s all over again.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:46 am
Thanks JP.(419),
I needed a laugh this morning
December 17th, 2012 at 11:49 am
@389,27 slashes ,vertic ally across the neck equal,s 27 dead. the knife killing does not take as long as you think it would. Anyb me have heard of 3gun comprtion(pistol, shotgun & rifle) ?Allthe the afore mentioned are semiautomatic.There are many types of firearms contests. The biggest is probaly Camp Perry.A firearm laying by itsefl will do nothing but rust until a human picks it to use for whatever reason, good or bad. Joe
December 17th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Just in case Strongarm comes back with more idiocy, this is a link to a complete article about Nancy Lanza, Adam Lanza’s mother, and how she was NOT struggling, and where NOTHING about being a prepper is referred to:
http://news.msn.com/us/gunmans-mother-kept-trials-of-home-life-hidden?GT1=51501
She seems to havd had serious struggles with her son Adam, but if her ex-husband is accurately quoted saying that she would never have to work another day in her life, if she could afford a landscape artist to enhance her home, and if she was an sociable, outgoing person, then she was hardly in the doomsday prepper mode.
The difference between my source and Strongarm’s is that my references (three so far) are from valid sources and his come from print and online tabloids, which favor mendacity and vitriolic gossip, and outright lying, just to make sales.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
The mother was a doomsday prepper, just like the majority of people on this website. Just listen to the interview with her relative. The lady flat out says it:
============
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/12/wow_waiting_for_the_apocalypse.php
“Last time we visited with her in person we talked about prepping and you know, are you ready for what can happen down the line when the economy collapses,”
============
Paranoid doomsdayers and preppers such as yourselves, who indoctrinate your children with these end-of-society delusions, have the blood of 20 children on your hands.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
No, Strongarm. Misguided liberal tools like yourself – who made it unlawful for anyone at the school to be lawfully armed and able to defend themselves and the schoolkids, and who advocated mainstreaming the mentally ill, are partially culpable.
But even you tools aren’t completely to blame. In the final analysis, the one primarily responsible for this tragedy is the bastard who pulled the trigger.
Collective responsibility is a myth. Individuals are responsible for their actions, not “society”.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
Yes Hondo, MOAR GUNS is always your answer. Why don’t you respond to the previous question posed to you: with all of these mass shootings, why are none of you ever at the scene to stop the madman? Jared Loughner shot up a political rally in public in Arizona where it is legal to carry. Why are you self-appointed protectors of society never there with your 300 million guns to stop the tragedy? Why is it always the police first on the scene and not you brave cheeto-warriors?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
Not sure about Arizona, but most states that have concealed carry laws also mandate that you cannot carry them in certain places…like political rallies and the like…and I’m more of a Doritos man myself, thanks.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
According to what I’ve seen, there’s no stipulation on carrying concealed at political rallies in Arizona (http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf)…that being said, let’s remind ourselves that Congresswoman Giffords was a Democrat, and not likely to attract those of the political persuasion who WOULD exercise their 2A rights considering how hostile those on the left are in regard to guns in general. Just sayin’.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
@427 Both the Colorado Theater and the school are gun free zones. And that is what happens: law abiding citizens ABIDE by the law. Murderers DO NOT.
You can FOAD about the blood of innocent children being on our hands.
I’ll ask you again strongarm- do you support abortions and is it a right?
December 17th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
@#427, because schools are “gun free zones”, why don’t you look up the Clackamas Mall shooting and see what transpired there?
As for “why are none of you ever at the scene to stop the madman”? Simple, there aren’t enough people carrying concealed yet. And, make mine potato chips.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
“… why are none of you ever at the scene to stop the madman?”
Of course that is exactly what happened in Pearl Mississippi http://www.davekopel.com/2a/othwr/principal&gun.htm not that actual examples of armed citizens using their firearms will deter strongarm in the slightest.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Seriously though, I can’t remember anyone even bringing up the subject of prepping for doomsday on this site. Strong armed, weak minded. Cheddar Cheese – Pretzel Combos for me.
December 17th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Strongarm: and what, pray tell, question have YOU asked me above? I can’t find any such question in the comments above. And yes: I’ve checked.
If you’re asking me a question, address the question to me. If you don’t, you have no reason to get upset if I don’t answer it.
And if you’re referring to a question asked by someone else – you are cordially invited to go fornicate yourself. I don’t owe you an explanation of why I choose to answer, or not answer, other people’s questions here.
I don’t owe you such an explanation either. But if you ask politely, you still might get an answer.
Or you might get ignored. That’s my call.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:00 pm
@433
LOL- I had to look up the term. I want to know when supporting the BOR made you a survivalist gun nut. I don’t even own a gun, but apparently I fall into that category, because I support the Constitutional power to protect yourself, your family and your property.
And I tell you, I was in my daughter’s kindergarten class when this happened. I have had gun training. My first thought was a mama bear who had a conceal and carry wouldn’t hesitate to take out his fool.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Sorry Guys for being late to the dance! For all the “Joe” anti-gun zealots rail against this.
A couple of years ago my brother and I were returning from the Ben Avery shooting range in north Phoenix where we had given our Colt 1911 A1s a little exercise. We decided to pull into a “Fry’s Marketplace” grocery store, to get some refreshing beverages, when we noticed a guy knock down a lady as he was brandishing a rather large knife. My brother drove toward him and we exited his p/u with .45s drawn. The guy suddenly became very calm and peaceful as my brother held his .45 at this a$$holes head and I called PD. Turns out the A-hole had warrants out for domestic assault and custodial interference! We testified at his trial and the judge thanked us for getting involved.
Here in Arizona it is illegal to have a firearm on any educational facility grounds. Everyday, as I drop off my kindergarten granddaughter, I become a criminal because my .45 is in the cab of my truck. I can’t say if I had been at that school I could have made a difference but I would have been in a position to try. Can any of you libtards say the same?
December 17th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Yeah, Cassidy personally took out the Kaiser with a rusty old P-38 after low crawling through several hundred yards of chlorine gas contaminated and c-wire strung no-mans land between trenches in WW1. Real keyboard warrior there gents. Take heed.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
Hondo @412–SCOTUS has ruled government has no legal obligation to do so
Precisely. As has been observed many times before, cops don’t carry guns to protect YOU, they carry them to protect themselves.
And as was seen most recently in the Empire State shooter a few months back, most cops (not all, but far too many) basically suck even at defending themselves, if the number of injured bystanders is any indication.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
NHSparky: yep. Castle Rock v. Gonzalez, 2005, among other cases.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
@425 Limpdick–The mother was a doomsday prepper, just like the majority of people on this website.
Such as how, exactly? So lemme get this straight.
I have the following available in my car at all times:
–Blanket, MRE, flares, tool kit, first aid kit, regular cat litter.
I have the following at home:
–Canned food, more MRE’s, generator with full tank of gas, 15 gallons of gas, transfer switch for generator, my (gasp!) guns, fishing equipment, 3-4 20-lb bottles of propane, more first aid kits, fire extinguishers, cord or so of firewood, etc.
Does this make me a “prepper”? Or does it merely make me relatively able to handle what the winters up in this part of the country routinely dish out, like 10-15 day power outages, etc? (And yes, I’ve had the power out that long a couple of times in the last few years.)
If that makes me a prepper in your eyes, fuck it–guilty as charged. Hope you don’t have to go through it, but if you do, don’t come whining to us.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
And while you’re at it limpdick, I loves me some nachos. The simple kind–tortilla chips, cheese, and jalapenos–but not fresh ones, I prefer the picked kind from the jar where the juice gets all into each and every bite of those deeeee-licious nachos.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
But Sparky being prepared for a bad turn of events obviously means that you are “paranoid” and “terrified”. Obviously you should trust in nanny, er the wise and all powerful state, to take care of your every want and need.
December 17th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
@423/Joe Williams… what are you talking about?
@427 – As unfortunate as the attempted assassination attempt of Gabrielle Gifford was, it seems to me in your mind that anyone who carried a firearm should have prevented the tragedy? Given that logic, why didn’t the police do something instead of waiting ’till the shooting occurred? (I’m certain there was plenty of law enforcement present at the site.) I would propose that if such a law existed that prohibited carrying a firearm at a political rally, those who are law abiding citizens were following the law (as they do when entering a movie theater, open mall, etc), the point still stands that CRIMINALS DON’T FOLLOW THE LAW.
(Cripes! Where do these people come from?)
December 17th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
@441 I bet those people who suffered thru Sandy wished they were Preppers too..
Now I feel like singing the Dr. Pepper song..
December 17th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
68W58…ask the folks in NJ/NY (or NOLA) how well depending on “Unca Shuga” has worked for them so far…
December 17th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Posting this because I feel it’s relavent to the discussion, in regards to what happened after the McDonald’s shooting in San Ysidro, CA years ago, perpetrated by James Huberty:
The families of the deceased victims along with the surviving victims together tried (unsuccessfully) to sue the McDonald’s Corporation and the local franchisee. The cases were in San Diego Superior Court and were consolidated. The court ultimately dismissed before trial on defendants’ motion for summary judgment, but the plaintiffs appealed. On July 25, 1987, the California Court of Appeal (Fourth District, Division One) affirmed summary judgment for the defendants because (1) McDonald’s or any other business has no duty of care to protect patrons from an unforeseeable assault by a murderous madman; and (2) plaintiffs could not prove causation because the standard reasonable measures normally used by restaurants to deter criminals, like guards and closed-circuit television cameras, could not possibly have deterred the perpetrator (who did not care about his own survival).
James Huberty was killed by a police sniper at the scene, AFTER 22 people were killed and another 19 were wounded.
Had someone in McDonald’s had a gun at the moment the shootings began, the outcome may have been quite different.
In all, now I’m wondering what kind of litigation against the school district will come about for “failing to protect the students”?
December 17th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
So I guess being a prepper means you are someone not counting on the government bailing you out if things go wrong where you live from a storm/power outage? I guess in liberal land everyone should be equally stupid and unprepared.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
I walk through this world like a MAN, I can not for the life of me understand the paranoia it must take to live in FEAR constantly. 54 years old, and I have never needed a gun, I don’t walk down the street looking over my shoulder, I don’t jump out of bed at night if I hear the wind blow a door shut.
I just don’t live in FEAR.
What is wrong with you paranoid whack jobs?
December 17th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
@445 – Sparky; #@439 Hondo — I seem to be pounding something (not my head) against a brick wall with Strongarm about whether or not Ms. Lanza was a prepper.
First, I cite reliable sources, including the local news station WGN video — see link to WGN here — http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-aunt-of-adam-lanza-from-illinois-20121215,0,1330351.story
Here’s another link to Marsha Lanza’s interview from #270 above: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/connecticut-lanza-family-profile/index.html
Nowhere has Marsha Lanza, who was Nancy Lanza’s SISTER-IN-LAW said that Nancy Lanza was a prepper or connected to ANY doomsday ideology.
Also, the video attached to the link to the talking points blog has nothing about Nancy Lanza being involved with preppers or doomsday ideology. In fact, if you watch it to the end, the man at the Wooster shooting range says that the police pored over the register books at the shooting range for the entire year to date for 2012, and neither Nancy Lanza nor her son had been there at any time.
Yet, TPN writes up a semi-scary doomsday scenario, saying that Marsha Lanza was interviewed by TPN and quotes her as saying that Ms. Lanza was a prepper waiting for doomsday.
This is what tabloids do. They write what they know will get attention and sell their crap in the checkout lines at the grocery store, even though it’s pure fiction. The first clue that what TPN published is their reference to Nancy Lanza as Marsha Lanza’s sister.
They were NOT SISTERS. Marsha Lanza was Nancy Lanza’s SISTER-IN-LAW.
Therefore, everything in that TPN article is a blatant lie. The Daily Mail, another tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch, created the prepper/doomsday crap out of whole cloth. Everything about it is a lie. Rupert Murdoch has already been sued for exactly this kind of unmitigated filth. How much more does that asshole expect reasoning people to swallow?
Crystal Lake is not too far from where I live. I can look up Marsha Lanza and ask her for an interview, although I’m not the kind of person that intrudes on someone else’s privacy.
I have referenced reliable sources, yet Strongarm chooses to ignore the truth and plants lies as a rebuttal.
So, guys, am I pounding something against a brick wall?
Oh, my favorite: garlic-stuffed queen olives preserved in white wine and vinegar with dill. And russet potatoes sliced into 1/4 inch wedges, brushed with EVOO, dusted with garlic salt and cracked black pepper, roasted in the oven for 15 minutes at 425F.
This is for Strongarm: you’re an asshole.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Nor do most people, Gary–but if trouble finds us, the difference between us and you is that I refuse to become a victim.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
Funny thing is Gary all the gun people I know aren’t in fear of anything. Most of them just like to target shoot. There is an actual sense of pride in refining your skills to become a good shot. But the possibility that there are gun owners who aren’t waiting for the next shootout at the OK Corral never entered your twit leftist brain.
And since you are such a MAN, I just hope there is nobody around you with a gun when the day comes that you need one. But you sure will have showed us.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
@427: Why is it that the mall shooting in Oregon died in the media right away? Because the shooter was confronted by a person with their CCW permit that had the drop on him. When the shooter saw this, he took himself out, without any more innocent lives taken and without the permit holder firing a shot. So, I just answered your question. Why don’t you chew on that a little bit.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Ooh no, Gary sure told us. He walks through life like a MAN. He is not scared of anything-except for inanimate objects in the hands of responsible citizens, that shit is terrifying.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Srongarm is a classic “one trick pony”, Ex-PH2. He’s found a meme he likes at talkingpointsmemo.com. Now it’s his story and he’s sticking to it – truth be damned.
Perhaps the time has come to cease arguing with the fence post.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:36 pm
It’s funny Gary talks that way, because it’s FEAR that’s going to rob us of some essential liberties for a little bit of temporary security.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
68W58: you don’t suppose it’s because firearms in the hands of responsible, law-abiding citizens might threaten Gary’s livelihood, do you?
December 17th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
@427
Because the liberal MSM won’t carry the story.
http://www.easybakegunclub.com/blog/1968/Concealed-Carry-Hero-at-Portland-Mall—The-Full-S.html
December 17th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
PH2 — Blowing off steam by threatening to kill your wife, her coworkers and anybody else in the building is a bit excessive. If your response to a domestic quarrel is threatening violence you should expect a visit from local law enforcement. I blow off steam by working out to some good old fashioned Doors music. I’ve never threatened to kill anyone while I was in a fit of domestic anger….and while I understand different people, different methods but even in your analogy of “I want to kill that sumbitch” you used the singular, a more appropriate analogy to the case you reference was if you added ” and then I am going to go by his place of business and kill all his colleagues and anyone else I find there”…. threatening mass murder may not necessarily mean you will do it, but it’s not something ordinary folks do.
My point was in regards to this shooter there was a clear history since the age of 9 when mom used to caution babysitters to never leave her precious boy alone for a moment and never turn your back on him….this is clearly not someone who was in any way shape or form blowing off steam when expressing himself over the last 11 years….he was seriously ill and nothing was done about it. Where the failure occurred is subject to investigation and will no doubt be dissected ad nauseum.
Some people need to be institutionalized, we can choose prison as the warehouse for mentally ill people which is what we have done since the ACLU helped liberate mental institutions. It’s costly and less effective since you have to wait for a crime before acting. Or we can address with a rational discussion how health professionals might be able to identify mental illness and help treat, and where necessary place in a protective environment, those who probably should not be walking around with the rest of us. Or we can just keep on doing what we have been, letting the mentally ill wander around homeless until they bump into the legal system while we continue to debate the merits of one idiotic gun ban after another.
That’s my 2 cents, your take might well be different.
December 17th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Thank you, Hondo. I guess TPM stands for Toilet Paper Memo, because everything they write is absolute crap.
Also, in regard to preppers, I know people who live in what are considered severe weather zones, and who keep their pantries and storage sheds fully loaded with food, fuel for generators, basic hygiene necessities, etc., and they don’t live in fear. They also hunt game for food.
Me: I live in an area where the possibility of a blizzard is very real, like the February 2011 blizzard that was responsible for several deaths due to cold and being trapped in snow-blocked cars. That’s the one that shut down Lake Shore Drive in the northbound lane, trapping people in their cars. I have pictures of the four feet of snow that blocked my front storm door.
I have kept a fully-loaded and stocked pantry for 45 years. If there is a severe storm this winter and if my door is blocked by the snow, the car snowed in and blocked, and the bobcat driver doesn’t come right away, I can do just fine with what I have on hand, including enough chicken in the freezer to feed the Union Army.
That’s just common sense, not fear. It’s experience in a northern climate that says “Hey, you may have three feet of snow on New Year’s Eve. Pay attention.”
December 17th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Back to the original topic (more or less): I’m still waiting for John-boy Cole to regale us with a few stories about his derring-do and dangerous duty at Camp Doha and along the Kuwait border in Jun-Sep 1991.
How about it, Johnny? We want to hear all about your heroic acts in SWA!
December 17th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Hondo 456-probably correct, anyway I have to wonder about a guy who doesn’t even get out of bed when he hears a door slam in the middle of the night. Of course I own a house and a slammed door in the middle of the night means something different to me than to Gary where it just means that someone else in the shelter has had trouble getting the bathroom door closed.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
@427
Where are the gun owners when they’re needed? Here ya go big boy.
The Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz study published in 1990’s in the “Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology” found that there were between 830,000 and 2+ million defensive gun uses per year in the U.S. .
A Federal Gov’t study, the “National Crime Victimization Survey”, found there to be about 108,000 defensive gun uses each year.
Another Federal Gov’t study, the “National Survey of Private Ownership of Firearms”, was conducted in the 1990’s because of doubt over Kleck and Gertz’s numbers, and it found approx. 1.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
And last but not least, a Cato Institute ‘white paper’ titled “Tough Targets” takes a close look at a little over 4000 recorded gun incidents between 2003 and 2010, and blows just about every single anti-gun meme out of the water using actual case information. You can access the study here: http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf
While recorded ‘justifiable homicide’ statistics seem to be low in relation to the mentioned survey results, it’s important to understand that such statistics do NOT include instances where the criminal was wounded but did not die, instances when an intended victim held an attacker for police to arrest, where just brandishing a firearm caused a potential attacker to flee, or where the mere presence of a firearm caused a potential attacker to reconsider.
Privately held firearms preventing crime in America is alive and well. That privately held firearms didn’t prevent a handful of the more notorious events is not evidence that they aren’t effective, it’s only evidence that they weren’t there when they were needed, kind of like the police.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
I think Melle’s right: we should all sing the “Dr. Prepper” song.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
460 Where did Cole allege that he was some kind of hero? I did a Desert Spring tour in Kuwait and while we didn’t have to tape our mags, we did have to conduct daily counts to maintain round accountability, so the guy sounds legit to me.
More to the point, where does a fat fucking POG sack of shit like you get off trying to downplay some guy’s service because it took place at a cushy base with the best DFAC in the region? Let’s hear your tales of derring-do like the time you had to eat a vegetarian MRE while stuck at the range. I hope it didn’t give you PTS.
December 17th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Just for #463
I am prepper and i’m proud
I use to feel alone in a crowd
but now you look around these days
and it seems theres prepper CRAZE
I’ma prepper he’s a prepper she’s a prepper we’re a prepper
wouldn’t you like to be a prepper too?
I’m a prepper he’s a prepper she’s a prepper
if you stockpile you’re a prepper too!
December 17th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
68W58: agreed. I also noticed that the individual uses a term for a reprehensible act of coercive violence – e.g., “strongarm” – as his screen name.
A Freudian slip on his part, perhaps? (smile)
December 17th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
@465
Too funny!!!!
December 17th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
@464… Not mags, CLIPS..say it like your pal Cole does, champ.
Look, had he had a little more tact in his entry and a lot less moron, not to mention calling “gun nuts” pussies ( which as I said, is real cute from behind the safety of the interweb) then we probably wouldn’t be jumping up in his shit.
Here’s an idea for you and the rest of your crew of Balloon Knot sallies…stop trying to use f -bombs and slurs to make up for your lack of logic / weak attempts at trying to come off as some sort of keyboard commando internet toughguys, and put on your big boy pants and talk like adults. Maybe then people will actually listen to whatever point you’re trying to make.
Are you getting this yet? I’m not holding my breath.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
@462 Excellent reference, I had seen excerpts from this report. Thank you for the link to the entire report, much appreciated. Since it discounts the logic behind most anti-gun rhetoric the left avoids discussing this type of information, preferring their anecdotal evidence to advance their cause.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
@JP #419 Casidy is my last name sunshine. I ain’t hiding. I see a lot of pseudonyms on here, though. Not out of the ordinary for a bunch of Xbox Commandos. So are you guys an Airsoft group or something? Paint ball? I know…MW3 clan.
@Redacted1775 #437 Baghdad 2005, Al Doura, 3rd Infantry Division.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
wow, Cole is right, you gun nuts are a bunch of raving imbeciles.
get help.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
@471 That’s laughable because when I read Cole’s site all I see is things like we all listen to Faux News, Rush, are “preppers” and want to kill children. I think your side raves a lot more than ours does.
And again who the hell let the tin foil hats in? Hippie clean up on Aisle 1…
December 17th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Okay, some guy, the strength of your argument convinced me. Thanks.
_____________________________________________________________
So, is it worth counterattacking on Cole’s site? I mean, that tiny crew is so weak, I just don’t know.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
@472 In comparison to the blood that needs to be cleaned up so you can hold on to your metal/ polymer teddy bears? Such a sad group of people who’s first selfsih inclination is to defend your cowardly need to boost your confidence with a fetish than think about the innocent people who are dead because of your cowardice.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
@470…Yeah, because there’s only a few million people with the last name Cassidy, so you’re right out in the open, aren’t you…genius. I don’t even know you…but just from what I’ve read from you so far, I’m 100% certain you’re just another punk FOBit.
Anyway, no use arguing over the internet with a bunch of limp wristed, Balloon Knot sallies. It’d be more productive to try to talk to a brick wall, and a lot less dense.
Have fun, trolls.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
seriously, get help.
start here: http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/go/help
for those of you who are veterans, start with the VA: http://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/
December 17th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
Cassidy sez: “Maybe my era of Soldier is made of sterner stuff because we have the confidence to do our jobs regardless of the weapon.”
and
“Baghdad 2005, Al Doura, 3rd Infantry Division.”
Which I’m so sure you patrolled regularly “regardless of the weapon”. You’re a fraud and a fucking liar numbnuts, go tell it to the unwashed hippy college chicks.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
@ 475 Wrong again. You must be the gear queer of the bunch. C’mon now PX ninja, tell me about that really bad day when you couldn’t get you vanilla chai latte because to step outside meant putting your helmet on.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
@476. Seriuously, STFU. Oh, and learn where the shift key is. You are cap deprived.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
@473 I wouldn’t travel to that cesspool. There really is not intelligent conversation. They have spent the last 4 blog posts raving about how we are all survivalist paranoids. When people believe you had a hand in murdering 20 people you didn’t even know because you support the Constitution; there isn’t really a discussion to be had.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
@477 Of course we carried weapons numbnuts. That’s not the point. When you’re a gun user, you recognize that the gun is simply a tool; an extension of your mind and body that when utilized properly ends in the death of something. That’s all it is, a tool. A gun user doesn’t need the gun to feel brave. UNlike you pansy ass gun owners who need a little totem to make you feel less afraid and sleep better at nights. It’s your teddy bear. Children sleep with teddy bears.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
@388. Saying photojounalism doesn’t count is not an ad hominem attack. Saying you are a sack of shit is. Do you see the difference?
December 17th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
So doing your job “regardless of the weapon” actually means “I totally had my weapon with me at all times in order to defend myself”. You’re right about the firearm being only a tool though-which is why your whole attempt to place responsibility for the actions of others onto us is so hilarious. You’re too stupid to be believed-shitbag.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
how sweet, wrapping your support for infanticide in the flag.
if you are a veteran the VA’s mental health clinics are free of charge. you folks really need to get some help.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
I can’t help but think that strongarm got such a “strong arm” by pulling his pud every time a criminal act of violence gave him a chance to demonize lawful gun owners who had nothing to do with the crime in question.
Since he brings up the fact that the Giffords shooting happened in an area where CCW was allowed, let me just add this to the discussion via an academic study done by John Lott.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund
“With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”
December 17th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
@484 How trite trying to foist a dianosis of PTSD on Veterans who don’t disagree with you myopic view of the world.. The only mental illness I see comes from you guys.
Infanticide is killing infants hence the word infant in it. I don’t support infanticide- that’s the Democrats and their support of abortion(get your parties straight). And numbnuts how the hell did I frickin shoot 20 people when I CHOOOSE to not own a gun? You people really are not very bright.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
YADDA YADDA YADDA (@464 – and yes, that was intentional): I claim no great past derring-do or heroism. But unlike Cole, I actually have heard shots fired in anger. I have periodically been on the receiving end of enemy IDF. I have stood alongside the road, saluting, while multiple flag-covered caskets rolled by during their final trip back to CONUS. And I have written up a Purple Heart packet for one of my soldiers (he’s fine today, thank God).
But if you’ll bother to read the article above – or if you can’t read that well, find someone to read it to you and explain the big words – you’ll see Cole is the one who’s publicly making a big freaking deal bout serving in one of “the most dangerous regions in the world”. I’m just curious as to what Cole did that was so damned dangerous, that’s all.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
@484. Infanticide? Is that sort of like abortion? You don’t mind abortion, do you? And what grudge do you harbor against capital letters?
December 17th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
@481: Are you off your meds? Your post makes no sense at all. In the first part of it, you make a lucid statement, then you go off the deep end with a childish diatribe that cancels out the first part of your statement.
Maybe you can tell a friend of mine, who had a restraining order against an abusive ex-boyfriend that she didn’t need to carry a gun and that she’s just a pussy that needs a totem to feel less afraid and sleep better at night. I mean, what did she have to worry about, other than he outweighed her by 100 pounds and had violent episodes. I’m sure that piece of paper was adequate to keep her safe. Why don’t you look up Castle Rock vs. Gonzales to see how effective those pieces of paper are? Just because you are a billy badass that can crush opponents with a stare doesn’t mean that everyone else can.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
My point through not clear enough was a knife could cause the same carnage . If memory serves there CCWs at GIlford’s rally. They were worried about being mistaken for the shooter,so no return fire. The others were defenceless places where almost any weapon could used without fear.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
@489. Reason does not work. You have to scream, screech, and use raw emotion. They are here to annoy. They are not interested in a discussion. Rather like the Occutards, I’d say.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
@489 They call everyone else lunatics, nuts and crazies and really cannot even conceive of how they sound.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:46 pm
@488 They don’t care about infanticide.. That is a “right.” Strongarm left the thread everytime I asked him about his position on that. This tragedy is just a way for them to get rid of a “right” that they disagree with. Killing your child in utero= good. Having a pistol to protect your family= bad.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Ok everyone. Stop with the reason and logic and other things our guests don’t understand.
It’s really unfair to them.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
2-17 Air Cav: I think “some guy” is channeling e e cummings – without the requisite talent or intellect, of course.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
@493. Yes, melle1228. That is on the money. Thankfully, they have voluntarily disarmed themselves, as I like to say. We have not.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
@495. Well, cummings was cap averse but didn’t he forego periods too? I can’t recall.
December 17th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Damn, PPR (485) – that’s not fair. You’re using facts to confuse them!
December 17th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
2-17 Air Cav: at times he eschewed periods, if I recall correctly. But I did observe that “some guy” was channeling cummings without the requisite talent or intellect. (smile)
December 17th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Gee, I don’t have a gun. Don’t sleep with a gun. Don’t sleep with any kind of weapon. Don’t have a teddy bear, either.
I do, however, sleep quite well at night.
In fact, I think everyone here sleeps quite soundly at night without a gun or a teddy bear, except for these beastly angry children who just found this blogspot and are trying to hijack it,just to get attention.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
When the perpetrator intends to end their life during or after their crime stopping it is quite difficult. The effectiveness of suicide bombers to complete their crimes across the world is a reminder that a gun is one way to achieve massive casualties but by no means the only way. I am certain that suicide and bombs are illegal in most places already…as are crimes using guns.
The problem with much of the diatribe against owning a weapon is the desire to place a rational response on an irrational act such as the shooting 20 – 6 year olds and 6 of their adult teachers. We like to deceive ourselves into thinking if we just pass the right law, or make the right thing illegal we can stop mass murderers in their tracks and keep these horrific events from happening.
It’s an illusion of control, less guns do not equal more safety.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Here’s something else to think over, geniuses:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/25/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-bullets-shot-all-nine_n_1830007.html
Even if one of you heroes were to be at a mass shooting, and even if you somehow kept yourself from pissing your pants, and even if you got your gun out without shooting your feet or your dick off, you’d still be more likely to hit one of the bystanders as you would be to hit the psycho. But, hey, even if you did, it wouldn’t be so bad; at least you’d have had the chance to shoot somebody, and that’s really the point, isn’t it? Good guys, bad guys, who cares, as long as you get to blow somebody away. Of course, that’s all academic, since you’d be on the floor in your wet pants, screaming for somebody to save you. You all talk like you’re tough guys, but how tough can you be when you need to have your gun with you before you can screw up the guts to go to church or step out to the neighborhood sallon for a beer? Assholes.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
@501 Awesome and eloquent analysis!
December 17th, 2012 at 5:06 pm
Kurt Schlichter perfectly articulates the issues at hand here:
http://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2012/12/17/lets-have-that-conversation-about-guns-n1468596
And Glenn Reynolds offers the crucial questions that need to be asked if we’re going to have this “conversation” that the yellers and screamers claim to want:
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/159800/
“Why do people who favor gun-control call people who disagree with them murderers or accomplices to murder? Is that constructive?
Would any of the various proposals have actually prevented the tragedy that is the supposed reason for them?
When you say you hope that this event will finally change the debate, do you really mean that you hope you can use emotionalism and blood-libel-bullying to get your way on political issues that were losers in the past?
If you’re a media member or politician, do you have armed security? Do you have a permit for a gun yourself? (I’m asking you Dianne Feinstein!) If so, what makes your life more valuable than other people’s?
Do you know the difference between an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon? Do your public statements reflect that difference?
If guns cause murder, why have murder rates fallen as gun sales have skyrocketed?
Have you talked about “Fast and Furious?”Do you even know what it is? Do you care less when brown people die?
When you say that “we” need to change, how are you planning to change? Does your change involve any actual sacrifice on your part?
Let me know when you’re ready to talk about these things. We’ll have a conversation.”
I think Professor Reynolds’ questions are a great starting point.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
@502 The only people talking like tough guys is you and your team -sweet pea. Read your post and smell the hypocrisy..
December 17th, 2012 at 5:17 pm
@502. Okay, everyone who clicked on Frank Zappa’s link raise your hand. Thought so. Post more, moron. We like to see you waste your time. And by the way, the guys who you think would be wetting themselves are the guys you should be thanking God for daily.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:17 pm
melle,
It’s classic projection, with a heaping lack of self-awareness. The whole schtick doesn’t work if the mental midget pseudo-dentist doesn’t get himself worked up into a nice foamy lather before he starts burning all the strawmen he took the time to set up.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
@507 PPR, if we’re lucky, maybe he’ll get so worked up, he’ll explode.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
@507. I think he truly is a dentist. In my mind’s eye I can see him. He is sporting a plastic pocket protector and his mother is behind him yelling, “Why couldn’t you become a real doctor, like your cousin? She’s a real doctor. You’re a dentist!”
December 17th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
AirCav-http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/l/littleshopofhorrorslyrics/dentistlyrics.html
“My boy, I think someday
You’ll find a way
To make your natural tendencies pay
You’ll be a dentist
You have a talent for causin’ things pain
December 17th, 2012 at 5:36 pm
@510. I wonder if he molests men or women when they are unconscious. Maybe both, huh?
December 17th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
@510 – Zapruder F. Mashtots, D.D.S. is no dentist. He’s not listed anywhere. He does troll the internet alot, judging by his electronic imprint, and leaves noxious comments here like he does everywhere else.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Geeezz. NOW I know why I hate going to the dentist…
December 17th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
@512
So, he’s the internet version of the cockroach. Hard to get rid of, you’re grossed out when you see them, and they don’t contribute anything.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
I guess Shakespeare really could foresee the future. He obviously must have been thinking about Mashtots’ comments above when he wrote: “It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
By the way: “Mashtots” is a rather interesting screen name. The word “mash” has been variously used to signify being sexually attracted towards (1870s through the 1950s or 1960s) and the process of getting stoned out of one’s mind using cannabis (today). The term “tots”, of course, is synonymous with “small children”.
You think that maybe using the name “Mashtots” is a Freudian slip on his part – and he’s unconsciously trying to tell us he’s either a pedophile or a drug pusher who targets children?
December 17th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
@515
Now see, I took Mashtots to mean one who mashes tots…like potatoes.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
I don’t think he is a real dentist. Real dentists do not want anyone to be afraid of them.
The acidic diatribe resembles something you might find coming out of a 13-year-old whose mom and dad don’t know what he’s really up to in his room with the door closed. And the name might be an anagram of his real name, too.
Hmm. I shall work on that.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
@515. You may be on to something there, Hondo. I thought that Mashtots was more than a little odd, too. I still think he may be a dentist. The D.D.S. may be the one item in his tag that actually is legit–the rest reflects his criminality or criminal fantasy.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
Nik: that’s another interpretation. But based on what I’ve seen from the tool, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out mine is closer to reality.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:46 pm
Or he could just be a pedo, as Hondo suggested.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
2-17 Air Cav: that would also fit. Some dentists use NOx, which incapacitates their patients by putting them under. And I seem to remember a few stories over the years of dentists using NOx getting in trouble for taking certain . . . “liberties” with their helpless patients.
December 17th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Well, Hondo, where’s he coming from? There are several dentists around the Chicago area, from Indiana to Illinois, whose licenses have been suspended and revoked for taking indecent liberties with patients. One dentist was convicted of manslaughter for using too much anesthetic on an 8-year-old girl.
So where’s he coming from?
December 17th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Hondo, you’re killing me
December 17th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
What if we said our weapons were for a collection–a hobby? Why do we need ARs or .44 magnums?–to complete the collection. We don’t infringe on others who choose a hobby, like collecting tatoos or rare coins. That wouldn’t be right now would it? And if I collected a weapon that was inoperable, well that would be like collecting a muscle car that didn’t run.
I think what scares some is the fact that weapons CAN be used in self defence and keeping a secure home. A “bad” person breaking into your home robbing you (or worse) is just a misguded person looking to feed his/her family or in desperate need of money /sarc/ I think if we stick to the “It’s a collection” point of view, the nerdy left can appreciate that.
December 17th, 2012 at 6:47 pm
I wonder if those union thugs in Michigan are regretting their promise to stalk and terrorize the Governor’s daughter? Or the union thugs who stampeded a Democrat banker’s lawn in order to terrorize his son.
If Prognazis really cared about children, while they always attack the children first?
As for me, 68 years ago Europeans and some Americans were present for an incredible mass shooting: the Battle of the Bulge. Then as now some of our fellow citizens earnestly wanted America to surrender to the forces of fascism and evil. 68 years ago we said no. Today we say no. Malmedy, Newtown – evil is evil and must be fought wherever, whenever it shows up.
600
December 17th, 2012 at 6:54 pm
Starting with apologies.
First, for bothering, I don’t know if I’ve ever changed anyone’s mind with a weblog comment. But, I don’t know if that fact has ever stopped me.
Second, for the rude visitors from my community. I am a regular Balloon Juice reader, from both before and after Terry Schiavo turned John Cole from a man-the-barricades Republican into a liberal. I’ve made about two dozen comments to his site in the several years of reading, and almost all of them were to call him an idiot. He’s not.
And third, for doing one of my typical comment and leave acts. It is remarkably unlikely that I will check back in to see responses to this. Any horrible things you say about me will have to be for your own edification. Again, sorry.
It is unfortunate that what might have been a constructive conversation, or at least a conversation, has to be dominated by x-tards, y-nazis, whether a counterpary’s genitals are of appropriate dimensions, the skill of the possessor’s use of them, and of course the assumption that one’s opponent in argument is part of an undifferentiated group. But it is the Internet, so there you go.
I wouldn’t have even bothered, but I kind of recognize you guys here, and it is your place, and the BJ members are being rude. Just about everyone is horrified by what happened Friday, and there are a lot of rescue fantasies going around. So, this is a tough spot for both sides (two of the skrillion sides?) of this issue. The x-tards are dreaming of shooting the guy down in the school lobby, and the sub-optimal genital people are going to make sure nothing like this ever, ever, ever happens again. Or maybe it’s the other way around, I didn’t bring my Rorschach blots nor do I have any desire to look down anyone’s pants.
About you guys. I get the desire to have guns. Haven’t bought one yet, and I’ve seen the statistics that say having a gun makes you vastly more likely to die from one, but you eventually get to a point in your life where the things you want to try to protect are far more important than your personal safety. My dearest friends have guns, some have lots of them. One of my best friends (Navy) owns multiple AR-15′s, he keeps one on top of a bookshelf on a tripod (or whatever you call that thing that holds the barrel up while the butt rests). What I don’t recognize is the glee of expertise, no one I know would taunt someone for using an inappropriate synonym (clip vs. magazine). But it seems to make sense to several here. I also don’t quite get the “I do because I can” sentiment. That one is a bit lost on me as well. Why would you consider buying the CitySlayer 200 round clip (magazine? Pro-tip: I don’t care) just because it is the largest magazine legally available?
It seems the core of the communication breakdown is that everyone assumes the other fellow is in extremis, or is in extremis in fact. Either all the guns got to go or any weapon allowed to the state should be allowed to the citizen. Some of the y-nazis believe the former, but no one believes the latter. No one argues that they should be allowed to keep and bear doomsday devices. Do they? And another core (does that mean that this is an ellipse?) is the unbounded middle. y-nazis say guns kill, no guns. The poor-sexual-performance people say that since a frying pan can kill, there’s no problem keeping several AK-47′s hanging on the pot rack. Again, might be backwards, not peeking into anyone’s bedroom or reading their political literature.
Some sick kid, my bet is schizophrenia since 20 is near the sweet spot for onset, had weapons training in high velocity automatic weapons and access to those weapons when his insanity manifested. An unmedicated schizophrenic with those tools is simply a worse-than-worst-case worst case scenario.
But we can’t seem to talk about that or how to make that scenario less likely going forward, as we are too busy talking around each other, or down at each other. It makes me haz a sad.
P.S.: I intentionally put one grammar error in this comment. Enjoy.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:11 pm
Here is another interview with Marsha Lanza, done today:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8923854
The interesting part of strongarm’s meme is that there is nothing in the article linked into the TPM entry that says one word about Nancy Lanza being involved in doomsday twaddle or being a prepper.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
@ 346
Certainly nobody needs the internet to express their 1st amendment rights. And if a certain facet of the internet was used to put the public in danger, then I imagine that it would be perfectly reasonable to consider regulating it. After all your first amendment right is not absolute. In fact there are laws against cyber-bullying.
You really haven’t addressed my sincere question. Do automatic weapons or high capacity mags serve a real purpose? or do you just want them because you think they’re cool? Mind you I’m not knocking you if you think they’re cool. (cause I think it would be pretty cool to have a Tommy gun) I’m just saying that maybe as a society we should look at the prospective cost and decide that maybe those things serve no practical purpose and should not be available.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
@526
“P.S.: I intentionally put one grammar error in this comment. Enjoy.”
Does that mean the others are unintentional?
Kidding. You seem reasonable.
1. Clip vs Magazine. If someone is going to claim to be a high-speed low-drag badass and they get the nomenclature of their tools of the trade wrong, they’re going to get ridiculed. That’s no different from someone claiming to be a NASCAR champion and saying “gear shifty thing”.
2. Because I can. You may not identify with the “why” of such a theoretical CitySlayer 200. Is that relevant? I don’t understand the “why” of Honey Boo-Boo. I absolutely don’t disagree with their right to indulge in it. A friend of mine collects Swiss army knives. I don’t see the attraction in them, but I pick one up if I find one that I don’t think he has yet.
Yes, everything is taken to the extreme. Is that in any way surprising? Take a look around this country. We have people getting killed over what gender they prefer. We have people getting beat up over what team they cheer for. Extreme demonization on the Internet, just because they don’t agree with you, doesn’t shock me.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
@528
Yes. They do serve a purpose.
If I find my home being robbed and pull my trusty two-shot derringer only to find out my opponent is armed with a TEC-9, I’m on the losing end of that little contest. And the stakes are crazy high in that circumstance.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
Ex-PH2: Mashtots isn’t one of the pervert dentists in your neck of the woods. Unless he’s one who moved to Northern VA near DC after getting busted, that is.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:44 pm
@ 386
Sorry Old Trooper but you miss the point. It’s all about sensible regulations. I ask what purpose is served by high capacity magazines? Would not having them affect you in any way? Other than you want something you can’t have.
As far as the difference between arms and explosives, your an idiot if you think the 2nd amendment is only about guns. It was about having the citizenry armed so that it could effectively raise up a militia, (and that is being kind in it’s definition) because there was a debate about having a standing military at the time. Thus, it wasn’t just referring to guns, but weaponry in general, including explosives. If you want to be strict on the second amendment then you must recognize that the right to bear arms would include all weaponry.
The reason you can’t find ammo for a cannon is that it is regulated. If you argue that you can’t regulate guns, then you can’t argue that other “arms” can be regulated. Because you define arms as guns, doesn’t mean that the 2nd amendment does. Because clearly they included cannons and explosives that were used in that time.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:44 pm
@531 – Ah Ha! Well, it was just a thought. Fairfax, perhaps? Clifton? Centreville? Seven Corners or Reston? Clifton and Centreville are kind of out the DC area — both are 10++ miles outside the Beltway. Maybe Alexandria? Or Arlington Mill Run? All of that used to be my stomping grounds. It’s changed a bit, but not all that much.
If mashtaters shows up again, let’s try to pinpoint him.
December 17th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
@ 530
Yes because the argument is that you should only be allowed to have a 2 shot derringer. What a silly reply. You really want to pretend that only having regular capacity clips would prevent you from effectively defending yourself?
December 17th, 2012 at 7:53 pm
@534: Why do the police need high capacity magazines (not clips, chet)?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
@534
That’s not what I said. I used two extremes to illustrate a point.
A high-capacity, high-caliber, high-rate of fire weapon (-which incidentally is exactly the type of thing people are calling for banning…which ensures only criminals will have them) absolutely outclasses even a less modest weapon.
If you’re defending your home, don’t you want access to the best weapon you can (legally) have?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
The correct thing to do when you’ve printed a post full of bogus idiocy about a veteran’s service is to admit that you effed up. Otherwise, everything else you write will be laughed at and ignored.
If you had any brains, you’d realize that doing so would instantly give you cred as a dependable source who admits it when he’s screwed up. Instead, you’ve won 5 minutes of fame on the internutz for continuing to screw the pooch when your factual errors were easily disproven. And yes, numbnuts, many of us qualified with the Beretta at initial training (in my case, at IOBC in Ft Benning all the way back in 1988 before it was even issued Army-wide) and then were issued .45s in every unit we served in, whether in the US or Europe, for the next 5 years.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
534,
20 and 30 round magazines are “regular capacity”. It’s quite frankly nobody’s business if the weapons are kept/used lawfully and responsibly (which they are in 99.99% of US gun ownership, as evidenced by the number of privately owned guns vice gun-related death rate).
You also seem to know very little of the weapons in question, since “automatic weapons” are heavily regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934, and any that were manufactured after 1986 are banned from civilian possession.
Most of what you argued in 386 is a moot point because the laws are already there with “automatic weapons”. The point here is that the definition of “reasonable” continues to be whittled down by confiscationists every time their unworkable magic fixes don’t work. When the last “sensible” law was destined for failure and didn’t work, the definition is changed to suit the underlying desires of the control freaks and label those who disagree with them (who were previously quite reasonable under their former standards) as “unreasonable” in Orwellian newspeak.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
You guys are real sleuths, aren’t you? Since you’re so fascinated, no, I’m not a dentist. Saint Mesrop Mashtots, sometimes romanized as Maštoc’, was the guy who invented the Armenian alphabet. I’m not Armenian, I’m no saint. I just thought the name was a funny one. You might disagree, but I don’t give a shit. It’s funny.
And I still want to know why you heroes won’t do your fucking self-appointed job and stop one of these massacres. What good are you assholes with your penis extensions if you won’t even use them for anything other than something to jerk off to?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
@532: Fuck you. The 2nd Amendment, as pertaining to militias, was about getting to the battle quickly, by grabbing your rifle, shot, and other misc. supplies that you could carry. Not for bringing the cannons from your bedroom. With that, you are the idiot.
As for sensible regulations; don’t we have enough of them, already? Quit fixating on the gun and “high capacity magazines” and look at the problem, which isn’t the gun, but the person using it. 90 million law abiding gun owners killed no one on Friday. Chicago has “sensible gun regulations” and is a shooting gallery. Go check the stats on gun related murders in that town for just this year. The only reason the shooting in CT, or Aurora, or even Virginia Tech make the news and give the anti-gunners a butt rash is because of the loss of life at one time, instead of cumulative. Is it tragic? Yes. Is it preventable? Not until we have an honest discussion about the cause, not the effect. The gun is an inanimate object, it doesn’t have a thought, conscience, or an agenda. Maybe we need to concentrate on the person holding the gun/knife/baseball bat/garden sprayer? Yeah, criminals in Colorado used a garden sprayer filled with a flammable liquid to stick the nozzle under the glass at a check cashing place and sprayed down the clerk and counter and then lit it on fire. Do we regulate garden sprayers? Do we regulate flammable liquids? How about lighters and matches? How about deaths due to drunk drivers? Where are the calls to have that discussion? More people are killed every year from drunk drivers than guns, so obviously, the sensible thing we need to do is get rid of high capacity booze bottles.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
Correction, that should be 532 & 534 for the flawed and fallacious arguments of “confused”.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
>>>And I still want to know why you heroes won’t do your fucking self-appointed job and stop one of these massacres. What good are you assholes with your penis extensions if you won’t even use them for anything other than something to jerk off to??.>>>>
THere’s that tough guy talk again..
December 17th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
@539. We say you are a dentist and a pedophile, tater.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
For those “gun-control” guru’s out there who are still hung up on the whole “well regulated militia” thing, stating nonsense like the founding fathers never intended for 20 kids to get killed, I would offer this history lesson on that:
First of all, the crime of the day back then was relative to the time. There were no “semi-automatic” weapons back then, but they still had their share of crime – and mass murder, too.
In an article found in the New Bern North Carolina Gazette, a story from July 7, 1775 reported that “‘a Demoniac’ shot three people and wounded a fourth with a sword, before being shot by others.” Back in those days, organized law enforcement didn’t exist (not as such as we have today), so who was responsible for maintaing good order and discipline? Yes, it was anyone considered part of a militia (able bodied men, ages 17 to 46). They were the law abiding citizens, who had guns handy and killed the lunatic so he wouldn’t rack up a greater body count.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Hondo, now we know: mashtaters is NOT a dentist, he is just faking being one; he’s still obsessed with the dimensions of other people’s private parts; and he likes making fun of/abusing the names of saints.
Sounds like a social moron, if there ever was one.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:13 pm
@539: You’re a real fucking gem, too, since several of us have provided examples where an armed citizen did stop a massacre, but that doesn’t fit your narrative, so you ignore it and continue bleating like a fucking 8th grade graduate. Pull your head out of your ass, because your brain needs oxygen.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:14 pm
539, I guess you missed the news about the guy with a CCW license in Portland who stopped a massacre in a mall this weekend. Funny how when there’s no massacre, no one is interested.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
I think he just likes any chance he can find to reference penis extensions. He’s definitely a minor example of why mental institutions could provide societal benefit.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
@535
The same reason that our military does. Because in their profession, they literally seek out situations that put them in harm’s way. Allowing one specific segment of society to have access to something does not mean it should be available to the public at large.
Again, give me a plausible situation wherein you would need to have a high capacity magazine? And if one exists does it’s likelihood outweigh societies “right” to not have these magazines easily accessible?
By the way, your concentration on the semantics of calling something a clip, instead of a magazine is simply sophomoric. Apparently, if someone doesn’t use your preferred nomenclature than their argument is void, even if you know exactly what they were referring to. The fact that you try to use it to nullify another’s stance just proves how hollow your argument is. It’s as moronic as saying that somebody’s argument isn’t valid because their spelling, or punctuation is poor. (unless you’re arguing about spelling or punctuation) Obviously you knew exactly what I was writing about. You, on the other hand, don’t seem to understand the difference between arms and guns as it relates to the 2nd amendment.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
I can’t believe this site would allow a pedophile or a dentist to comment on it! And here we have both in the same commenter! I am aghast and, truth be known, crestfallen.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
Hey, I’m not the one claiming to be Dirty Harry here. I don’t want to shoot anybody. You guys are the ones who seem to think you have something to prove by waving your guns around.
And, what are you guys going to do when you find out where I live? You’re warm, I’ll give you that. But what are you going to do if and when you narrow it down to my street address? Come shoot me? Shoot my family and my dog, too? Or are you going to call the police to turn me in for, I don’t know, calling you mean names and impersonating a dentist in the intertubes? I’d really rather you didn’t come shoot at me, but if you want to alert the police to my perfidious internet name-calling, then have at it.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:17 pm
I feel so left out. You all have these penis extenders that the denist talk about and I don’t have one. Just a thought: do I need an actual penis to use one?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:17 pm
Damn child molester. I hope he uses the same screen name at other sites so they’ll know too!
December 17th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
Wow there are a lot of small penises here.
Yes, showing all that you think the debate is REALLY about how expert you are at terminology, totally shows you have the right priority.
As for John Cole, IT’S A CONSPIRACY!
December 17th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
@551: Stop wetting your diaper, nancy, no one wants to shoot you. Of course, being the drama queen that you are, I could understand your stupid retort.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
@551 You are entirely too obsessed with others’ lives. I plan to continue to ridicule you and laugh at you and then leave this site and promptly forget about you. You are interchangable. I can get the same tired unintelligible diatribe be going to any leftist site like KOS and Huffington. YOU would only be unique if you could intelligently back up your position without ranting and raving about someone you know nothing about because they disagree politically with you. MEH!
December 17th, 2012 at 8:21 pm
So, is that it? The John Cole Club hates men and sees guns as male genitalia? Is that what this is really all about, penis envy? Pedophiliac dentist and radical fems. Great.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
@ 557 Apparently guns are phallic and are for those of us who are overcompensating.. Oh how I wish I had a penis, I would whip it out for a measure test.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
Zapruder F. Mashtots, D.D.S. is a pedophiliac.
There, that should help Googlers in the future.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
@551: Also, we don’t flash our guns around. We prefer to carry concealed and are licensed to do so. With your lack of education on the subject, I guess I will have to give you the condensed version of why your rant is stupid. First off; none of us want to shoot anyone. Second; if we were to “wave our gun around”, we would be committing a crime. It’s called aggravated assault. Third; since we really don’t fit your childish narrative, I understand why you resort to infantile examples as a way to validate said childish narrative.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Did you even watch the clip you linked to? The guy was smart enough not to shoot since he was worried about hitting somebody else. He says the shooter saw him and that’s why he shot himself. I don’t get why he’d do that; he isn’t any less dead just because he shot himself. If this is the best you can find, then keep looking.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:25 pm
it has come to my attention that some criminals have hand grenades,
The only way to protect society from these grenade-wielding criminals is if ordinary, law-abiding citizens like ME are allowed to carry hand grenades, too!
Because whand grenades are outlawed, only outlaws can carry hand grenades!
Many studies by noted conservatIves PROVE that we would ALL be far, far safer if EVERYONE were allowed to carry hand grenades.
What’s more, conservative scholars have also PROVED that there should be NO restrictions against people accessing hand grenades just because they, or a close family member, has mental issues.
sure, a few people might accidentally die from injuries sustained by hand grenades, but this is a necessary part of ensuring our freedom.
The Founders surely intended that ALL Americans would have the right to carry hand grenades, under any circumstances!
Anyone who attempts to deny this is a freedom-hatin’ liberal socialist commie!
December 17th, 2012 at 8:26 pm
OT: You have the patience of Job. I’m done with these screeching, irrational twits.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
@554: Why don’t you take a reading comprehension course and then get back to us. Many have offered up sound, common sense logic coupled with facts and statistics, yet that isn’t good enough, because it shows you lose the argument from the start, so you resort to talk of genitalia in order to make yourself feel better while you hug your Hello Kitty blanket and suck your thumb.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
And what’s with the sudden obsession with pedophilia? You people sure are weird.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
“it has come to my attention that some criminals have hand grenades,” Well, well, well, it’s no caps under a new screen name tonight. If you know a criminal with a live hand grenade, stupid, call 9-1-1 right now!
December 17th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
@562
There was so much straw in your post, you could make a scarecrow..Just sayin…
December 17th, 2012 at 8:29 pm
And for the record, I don’t suck my thumb while sleeping under my Hello Kitty blanket. Just, you know, F.Y.I…
December 17th, 2012 at 8:30 pm
@565. Are you in treatment at a clinic? I don’t care for child molesters, bud, but I am concerned about the kids. Too bad no one cared enough to have a gun at the school when the murderer showed up. Or was that because the libs felt having a gun for protection was just not politically correct? Damn child molester.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:30 pm
@568. No, you dream of sucking on something else, you SOB.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
So, did that other idiot call 9-1-1 yet?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
@561: The point is, he saw a citizen closing on him with a weapon and stopped his attack and ended it. It doesn’t matter that he didn’t fire at the shooter, it showed that he has control and restraint. That you don’t understand that more people are alive today, because of the actions of an armed citizen, then you need more help than anyone can give you.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Answer me a question anti-gun nuts. How would an assault weapon ban have stopped the school shooting? You all do know that Connecticut HAS an active assault weapon ban and the Bushmaster was legal under that ban.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
@538
You see Ranger I used the term automatic weapons for a reason. I know that they are heavily regulated, and that is exactly my point. If you think there is no problem with the availability of high capacity magazines, which seem to serve no purpose for the average gun owner, then you must believe that automatic weapons should be available to everyone as well. And perhaps you do. What I’m saying is that society’s safety overrides the average gun owner’s right to have certain guns, or accessories available to them.
Thus the argument is about where to draw the line. Because as far as the 2nd amendment is concerned, and it’s statement regarding the right to bear arms, not just guns, including the most up to date weaponry, we have already drawn lines.
Your argument that the gun confiscators just want to start with the high capacity mags then slippery slope blah, blah, blah, may well be true, but it doesn’t mean that we can’t have any regs at all does it? Is it your argument that because some people want to get rid of all guns, then we can’t have any reasonable restrictions on what is available?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-newtown-assault-weapons-20121217,0,7777142.story
“The term ‘assault weapon,’ as used by the media, is a media invention,” said Robert Crook, executive director of the Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen. “These are semi-automatic firearms that have military cosmetic characteristics. They look like our military firearms, but they’re not.”
Connecticut has an assault-weapons ban, modeled after a federal law that was enacted in 1994 before expiring a decade later. But it takes more than a dark fiberglass body and a menacing shape to fall under the ban.
The Connecticut law restricts semi-automatic rifles — those capable of firing a bullet with each pull of the trigger — only if they include a detachable magazine as well as at least two of five specific features. One of those features — a pistol grip — is ubiquitous on military-style weapons. But to be banned, an AR-15-style rifle would also need to include a folding or telescoping stock, a bayonet mount, a grenade launcher or a flash suppressor, a device typically screwed on to the end of the muzzle to limit the bright flash caused by gunpowder that ignites outside of the muzzle.”
December 17th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
Uh oh, I fear you might have lost some of your best Democratic cover. Joe Manchin looks like he might be ready to sign onto some kind of gun control bill. Oh, but he talked about deer hunting with three shells in his clip, so clearly he’s a lying liar who’s never even laid eyes on a gun, much less shot one at a deer.
http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/12/sen-manchin-time-to-act-on-gun-control.html?ml=vi_2
December 17th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
@576 And AGAIN the Bushmaster would have been legal under the last federal assault weapon ban. Connecticut’s own ban was stylized after it..
December 17th, 2012 at 8:38 pm
Seriously, what’s with the child molester stuff? I don’t get it. I think you’re assholes and sociopaths, but “child molester” just isn’t the first thing my mind runs to. I’m genuinely curious, what’s your particular pathology?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
Hey, Dr. Molester, no one gives a rat’s ass about what you have to say. You’re not here to discuss anything at all. You like to play games. Okay, play.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
@538
Nik, I appreciated your gentle ribbing. Yes, the split infinitive was the only intentional grammar error. All further instances were not.
Not really on board with equating collectibles with the legal horizon of armaments, but I see where you were going.
“If someone is going to claim to be a high-speed low-drag badass”
I just didn’t see where Cole was doing that. The post in question seemed to me to be a juxtaposition of a culture where guns were truly necessary tools (Cole’s army experience) and one where they are simultaneously much more and much less (civil society). My job and expertise (such as it is) is statistics, but I wouldn’t try to demean my opponent in argument about the distinction between uniform and normal distribution unless it were actually disqualifying to her larger point.
“If you’re defending your home, don’t you want access to the best weapon you can (legally) have?”
My inclination is no (or sort of no). The only weapons I personally am considering are first a sturdy revolver, such that I can put it in a drawer for 15 years with a decent chance of it successfully firing in the event I hope never happens. Second, a pump action shotgun, such that the sound of the slide action can convince an intruder that his best prospects are elsewhere. What weapons are held by those who would harm me are almost entirely orthogonal (sorry) to that decision.
P.S.: For fun, this time with extra split infinitives!
December 17th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
@569: “Gun Free Zones” should be renamed “Victim Marshaling Area”. The evidence bears this out. Why did the chucklehead in Aurora go to a theater further from his apartment? Because he knew it was a “gun free zone”. Why such a loss of life at Virginia Tech? Because it was a “gun free zone”. Same thing at the elementary school. The Pearl Mississippi school shooting went like this:
The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.
Woodham drove his mother’s car to Pearl High School. Wearing an orange jumpsuit and a trenchcoat,[1] he made no attempt to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before leaving, intending to drive off campus and conduct another shooting at the nearby Pearl Junior High School. However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother’s car. Then Myrick demanded “Why did you shoot my kids?” to which Woodham replied, “Life has wronged me, sir.”
Yep, the asst. Principal went and got himself armed and stopped anyone else from being killed.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
Zapruder F. Mashtots, D.D.S. : You really DON’T get it do you, you piece of crud? Maybe if you stopped and gave it some thought, you would reach a correct conclusion. Play on.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:41 pm
Hey, Zapruder was a famous film photog, and mashtots is a pedophile, maybe he films his pedophilia?
Actually, Zapruder probably OD’d on N20, and removed his own cojones via root canal. Now he sees male genitalia in all his dreams. Or, are they dreams?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:41 pm
And if the damned gun would have been lawful to carry, then maybe that ban wasn’t a broad enough ban. I know, I’m a fascist-nazi-bolshevik-commie-pinko li’l Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot for even thinking such a thing.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
>>And if the damned gun would have been lawful to carry, then maybe that ban wasn’t a broad enough ban. I know, I’m a fascist-nazi-bolshevik-commie-pinko li’l Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot for even thinking such a thing.>>
Well at least you admit that your for an all out ban that wouldn’t require amending the BOR. Sounds kind of fascist to me. Give you two guesses what one of the first thing the Nazi party did to the populace when it got in power. The first two don’t count..
December 17th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
mere mortal: Congratulations. You made a reasonable statement of position with which a rational response can be offered. Why do you associate yourself with the ill-tempered and vulgar lot you’ve thrown in with?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
Actually, Mesrop Mashtots wasn’t a pedophile. Thanks for playing, though. Good show!
December 17th, 2012 at 8:46 pm
@587. Dr. Pedophile: You admitted to not getting it a few minutes ago. You still do not get it. Your playtime is ended.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
mere mortal-in all seriousness get the pump action and a “less lethal” round for the first round in the slide with the rest being buckshot or what have you. That way, you work the action and you have a bean bag or OC round ready to go. If you shoot someone by accident then you probably won’t kill them and if you need to elevate to lethal force then all you have to do is work the slide.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
melle1228
I think you are missing the point. The argument isn’t about this particular massacre. You’re right that even the assault weapons ban wouldn’t have stopped it.
The question is; are there common sense laws and regulations that can be enacted that limits the danger to society from different type of weaponry? Regulations that don’t critically infringe upon it’s citizen’s rights to use their guns in a practical manner. Do some weapons have no practical use other than to kill large volumes of people, and if so isn’t it reasonable to regulate such weaponry?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:53 pm
@580
I could have said “If someone is going to purport to have a profession that uses the tools of violence…”, it doesn’t change the argument any.
Most of what comes through this site actually doesn’t have much to do with guns. It has to with Stolen Valor and this site sees a lot of it. So, when people are using the wrong terms, or are using terms incorrectly it gets attention.
I imagine there are sites out there that talk about the greatness of great statisticians. I also imagine there are some pretenders on those sites. Then they’re talking about something about statistics and get the terms median and mean used incorrectly. This becomes a habit of getting those terms mixed up. Wouldn’t you initially think people who use median and mean incorrectly don’t know as much about statistics as they claim? And that their other claims are suspect as a result of that doubt?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Okay, that’s another literate and rational questioner. Of course, those screen names are easy to change. Can we have an IP look-see to determine whether this is a circle jerk, the same couple of people, or actually different addresses?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
@589
Thanks for the advice. My plan will probably be to have a dummy for the first, so I could do two jobs at once. First, avoid death or injury for any fool who finds the thing and pulls the trigger. Second, if the plan is to make the pump the “warning shot”, the first round don’t matter anyway.
But thanks nonetheless, and as I said previously, I have many friends who can also advise me on the particulars.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
@590
The problem is not the weapon. That is a tool. The problem is mental illness. If you don’t actually deal with the systemic problem; then the problem still exists. It is like giving homeless people homes without dealing with addiction and mental illness. Most will be back on the streets within a year.
Short of opening up medical records; you can’t legislate crazy or stupid. And ALL massacres that have happened could very well been carried out by someone with handguns. You can go for an all out ban, but we live in too open a society and all out bans on illegal immigration and drugs have worked wonders, haven’t they?
Passing widespread regulation because of a few bad apples are overkill. Why don’t you take of the bad apples and leave the rest alone? Wouldn’t that be more productive, reasonable, and realistic?
December 17th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
I’m with 2-17 Air Cav. Way too much rationality going on here. Something’s up.
December 17th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
Zapruder F. Tatertots, DDS – you’re a sad, strange little man, and I pity you. Farewell.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
@591
“Most of what comes through this site actually doesn’t have much to do with guns. It has to with Stolen Valor and this site sees a lot of it. So, when people are using the wrong terms, or are using terms incorrectly it gets attention.
I imagine there are sites out there that talk about the greatness of great statisticians. I also imagine there are some pretenders on those sites. Then they’re talking about something about statistics and get the terms median and mean used incorrectly. This becomes a habit of getting those terms mixed up. Wouldn’t you initially think people who use median and mean incorrectly don’t know as much about statistics as they claim? And that their other claims are suspect as a result of that doubt?”
This would be a good argument, but it is not on point. The original poster referred to Cole’s post on Cole’s site, talking to Cole’s audience. Not Cole posting here among those with relevant expertise, or about a post on Cole’s site referring to this weblog in any way.
And yeah, “but what is the median” is one of my most-used phrases.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:04 pm
It couldn’t possibly be that some of Cole’s Fan Club are interested in rational discussion. Cole will be so disppointed. He pointed them here to spew their pap and do some serious name calling. He’ll be crushed.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:04 pm
No, Mesrop Mastoc was a saint, and you’re not. But you are a counterfeit using the DDS sig after your name, which implies that you are a dentist, and which you say you are not. Ergo, counterfeiter.
You attach the name of an Armenian saint to yourself, implying that you are both Armenian and a saint, and then follow up by saying that you are neither, so you have engaged in another counterfeit.
Since dentists have been associated with patient abuse in some parts of the country, and everything else about you is a lie, when you say YOU are not a pedo, no one is going to believe you, especially when you’ve made so many references to male genitals that you made some of the people here wonder what the hell is wrong with you.
By creating all that online babble, you’ve practically indicted yourself.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
@597
Yes. And I put it out there wrong. The analogy would have been better if you saw (and maybe you do) a lot of papers and websites out there where the math is just BS and a common theme among them is the median vs mean thing.
Then when you run across one of these sites, you see another mean vs median “problem”. Wouldn’t you at least be suspicious over such a basic error and the authenticity of the site’s claims?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:07 pm
@597 And it couldn’t possible that Cole incited a response by saying this:
>>>If there are bigger pussies in the world than gun nuts, I don’t know who the fuck they are.>>
December 17th, 2012 at 9:08 pm
The concealed carry guy who “stopped a massacre in Portland”? Didn’t make eye-contact w/the shooter. As far as we know, the shooter never saw him. The guy in Seattle who killed 5 people in May at Cafe Racer? Concealed carry. The guy in FL last month who killed a kid for smarting off and playing music too loud? Concealed carry. The guy in AZ who almost killed the guy who disarmed Jared Loughner? Concealed carry.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:08 pm
@599. Clap-clap-clap. That’s applause, not a disease.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:09 pm
Here, Mashtots, let me spell in out for you:
Mash: old slang for sexual attraction/molestation; current slang for getting wasted via smoking cannabis
tots: longstanding slang for small children
Therefore, “Mash-tots” translates to either (1) someone who is sexually attracted to small children – i.e., a pedophile, or (2) someone who provides drugs to small children.
Geez, if that was so hard for you to “get”, one might think you’re a naive 13 y/o tool whose mommie doesn’t know he’s using her computer while she’s out shopping.
Right, Spring-boy?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Deadliest school mass murder? Not Columbine and not a gun. Bath, Michigan. 1927. Explosives.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:12 pm
Broke Hammer: source documenting the Cafe Racer incident. A reliable one – ant that excludes anything from “talkingpointsmemo.com”, which seems to deal pretty much exclusively in MSU (Making Shit Up).
December 17th, 2012 at 9:14 pm
confused: Actually, your admission in 574 above proves you either (1) deliberately dissembled in a previous argument, or (2) were so naive you didn’t know the difference between automatic and semiautomatic weapons, got caught, and are now backpedaling. Care to enlighten us as to which?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
@602. So tell me again why we properly blame the drunk driver who kills or maims with his car but the gun is blamed when someone illegally shoots someone else.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
@586
“mere mortal: Congratulations. You made a reasonable statement of position with which a rational response can be offered. Why do you associate yourself with the ill-tempered and vulgar lot you’ve thrown in with?”
Mostly because they are not. So many people are on edge because of this thing, and the outraged and defensive alike are saying intemperate things. One of my Facebook friends got threatened with violence by one of his after he asked why children’s deaths in a decade of war are ignored while these 20 are so prominent.
I sort of get it but I mostly don’t. My job, as my life, are ruled by the rational, and I have no children for the visceral emotional projection.
I guess what I’m saying is that just about everyone with opposing positions on guns are being ill-tempered and vulgar this week. It is not surprising that the politicians who defend gun rights stayed far, far away from the Sunday political blah blah shows.
But what do I know, I’m just a libtard prognazi with mental and genital deficiencies who cannot please his lover.
P.S.: This time with subject-verb disagreement!
December 17th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
@594 “Short of opening up medical records; you can’t legislate crazy or stupid.”
Why is our homicide rate (all weapons) 270% of Canada’s? 370% of the UK’s and Australia’s? 425% of Germany’s? Several other high-income 1st world countries have stricter gun laws than us but grant concealed carry permits to ordinary citizens… and have rates of gun homicide 1/8th of ours. Looks like they have found a way to “legislate” weapons out of the hands of nuts.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
@608 Because they don’t want anyone to take away their cars.. so that is off limits even though cars kill more than guns do.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:19 pm
@610 Yo
December 17th, 2012 at 9:20 pm
@606, learn to google whydoncha. Here ya go.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/seattle-killer-had-concealed-carry-permit-owned-6-guns/1#.UM_EqYnjlEA
December 17th, 2012 at 9:20 pm
@603 – You had me worried there for a second.
I’m appalled at some of the vitriol I’ve seen posted by the so-called liberal/progressive/whatever it is end of the political spectrum. This is not what went around in the 1960s to 1980s. People were at least civil, and could agree to disagree about something. But this stuff? It isn’t disagreement. It’s verbal abuse. How deep does this hatred really flow?
And let’s talk abut abortion. Right now. It’s a woman’s issue. It has nearly nothing to do with men. Sometimes, it’s medically necessary. However, it is NOT birth control and using it that way smacks of a refusal to accept responsibility for what you did, girlfriend, which is simple: you want to get laid but you don’t want to deal with the consequences, so you turn to abortion instead of accepting responsibility for what you did. Leave the men out of it. No one told you to drop your undies. So if you want to get laid and you don’t want kids out of it, then get your damned tubes tied or get an IUD, and don’t expect me, or anyone else to pick up the tab for that. And if you want birth control pills, then you pay for them, not me and not the taxpayers. It’s your responsibility.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:21 pm
@610 Please link your sources mmkay, because 99% of statistics are made up shit..
December 17th, 2012 at 9:21 pm
@609. And you have a sense of humor too. That’s good and appreciated. Unfortunately, this mil blog where many Veterans and families of Veterans join in community was targeted by Cole. He launched his attack last night and a few returned this evening. That’s what’s happened here.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
@610
Why are our rates lower than that of Mexico, even though they have stricter gun laws than we do?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
mere mortal: regarding Cole’s use of terms, his audience is irrelevant. Knowingly using an incorrect term without explaining oneself is evidence of intellectual sloppiness or actual ignorance. Either causes knowledgeable readers to question the author’s credibility.
Cole’s readers would have accepted either term from him. The fact that he used a known-incorrect term for virtually any semi-automatic weapon manufactured after the M1 would lead any knowledgeable person to question Cole’s credibility. The fact that he was doing so while also obviously (and falsely) trying to present himself as someone who’d faced “great danger” in the military only exacerbates the effect.
In short: Cole was trying to sound like a badass, high-speed/low drag troop, when in reality he saw no action and did nothing special. No he didn’t lie outright. But he might as well have.
That dog don’t hunt here at TAH.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:29 pm
@617
Nik, if you can’t tell the difference between a prosperous 1st world rule-of-law country like the US, Canada, Germany, Australia and the UK… and a 3rd world hellhole that’s the primary battleground for control of our multi-billion $ narco trade… it’s not my job to educate you.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
@617
And gun violence is on the rise in China despite their draconian laws against gun. Don’t have access to a gun or a weapon- criminals and murderers will just make one..
“Other notable instances of guns: Another man on a rampage killed five family members and neighbors with a homemade pistol in 2007; a man thought to have been killed by an exploding cell phone battery actually died when a makeshift firearm malfunctioned. Last year, we reported on a gang-related shooting in Putuo District where four homemade guns were confiscated”
http://shanghaiist.com/2010/06/25/gun_culture_on_the_rise.php
December 17th, 2012 at 9:32 pm
Broke Hammer: it’s not my job to document your assertions, amigo. You make the claim, you provide the proof.
To your credit, you actually did. That’s more than most of your ideological bent can do when queried.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
@619. And how would you characterize D.C. and Chicago? How about Baltimore?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Nik: sounds to me like Broke Hammer just admitted that gun laws are irrelevant and don’t work very well to control gun violence. In fact, it seems like he distinctly said that societal factors were far more important than legal prohibitions.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
@620
Yes. Seems people have forgotten the term “zip gun”.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
@615
You’re saying that our homicide rates aren’t 270% of Canada’s? 370% of the UK’s and Australia’s? 425% of Germany’s? Hereyago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
You’re saying that other 1st world countries w/tighter laws but that do allow concealed carry don’t have gun homicide rates 1/8th of ours? Hereyago.
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/2/214
December 17th, 2012 at 9:37 pm
@622 OoH OOh–I can already make their argument for them. They would say that those bans don’t work because the community around them doesn’t have similiar bans. Then they miss the whole point, that we are an open nation and as such a gun ban would never work nationally because Mexico does not respect our laws..
December 17th, 2012 at 9:39 pm
@623
That was my read on it. Canada, UK, Australia, Germany and Mexico help prove, it’s not the gun laws, it’s the society.
If it were just the existence of gun laws that did the job, places like Chicago, DC and Detroit wouldn’t be looking so much like Mexico City, statistics-wise.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
And yet Mexico has draconian gun laws and a higher homicide rate. So what gives, Broken Hammer? Do the laws matter or not? Or is something else the critical factor?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
@623, 624
It cracks me up that you claim the US is more like Mexico than we are like Canada or the UK or Australia or Germany or Norway. You do realize how ridiculous you sound, right?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Well, then, ‘scuse me for stating the obvious but we are left with a solution that is bound to fail. Imagine that!
December 17th, 2012 at 9:41 pm
@625 Like I said statistics are made up shit. Now can you tell me how many of those deaths are from LEGAL firearms or those who choose to ignore gun regulations?
And the assess to guns could have absolutely NOTHING to do with homocide rates. Causation isn’t your strong suit, is it? Even your own source remarks this: “Further research to identify risk factors associated with these variations may help improve prevention efforts.”
December 17th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
@629
And parts of the US are more like Mexico than Canada. I’m not talking about language or culture or the color of their skin. I’m talking about the levels of violence exhibited.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:44 pm
Okay, signing off. Nicely done you people.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:44 pm
Broken Hammer: no, it merely demonstrates the lack of logic in your position. If your position were correct, there would be a high negative statistical correlation between a numerical measure of strictness of a locality’s gun control laws and their firearm homicide rate (and thus their overall homicide rate). As has been pointed out, that isn’t the case.
Try again, please – with a better effort and argument next time.
December 17th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
@632, 634
Why do you think the United States has more in common with Mexico than we do with other prosperous 1st world nations like Canada and Australia and the UK? That’s nuts.
You guys can’t come up with any facts. No wonder you make up crap about veteran’s service records. When you don’t have the facts on your side, might as well bang your shoe on the table, amirite?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
@539
Yo, Z.F. Mashtots
Way up there in post #462 I provided the answer to your assertion that we ‘won’t do our self-appointed job and stop one of these massacres’. Are you too lazy to read, or just happy being willfully ignorant?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
@635 You do realize that Norway has Europe’s highest gun ownership per capita and its lowest murder rate.. right?
December 17th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Thisainthell is for poseurs who call out veterans’ service records, get their false claims shot out from under them in flames… and walk away from the burning rubble, shouting “VICTORY!”
And for moms-basement-dwellers who think a narco turf war in Mexico is like being served warm beer in the UK or Canada.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:02 pm
Damn, #636 was me.
Anyhow Mash, based on extensive evidence, privately armed citizens prevent an overwhelming amount of crime, all the time. Something our law enforcement professionals wish they could do. Educate yourself then get back to us.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:06 pm
Don’t believe I ever said or implied Mexico had more in common with the US than Canada, Broken Hammer. Even someone with your apparently limited intellect and reading comprehension skills should be able to read the comments above and see that.
What I did say is that (1) you’ve already contradicted your own argument, and (2) societal factors are provably more important than legal prohibitions when it comes to a locality’s murder rate. You’re probably too thick to realize you’ve already contradicted yourself, though.
But maybe you do. You’re starting to resort to baseless invective and insults. Someone who belatedly realizes they’ve “stepped on it” often does exactly that.
You should probably do yourself a favor and just shut up. You’re only making yourself look more foolish with each new comment here.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
@Butthammer, #638
“”Thisainthell is for poseurs who call out veterans’ service records, get their false claims shot out from under them in flames… and walk away from the burning rubble, shouting “VICTORY!””"
Of course, TAH’s record of being right 99% of the time says otherwise, but I’ve noticed you’re not a big fan of facts anyway, so fuck it.
As you were.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
700
A new troll, Benhammeringhisownmom joins us from teh interwebz with a classic ass sandwich of accusation.
Think we’re going to hit 1,000 on this thread? What’s the current record? 12?
December 17th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
@631
Gun homicides are mostly committed w/illegally obtained weapons, huh? Wrong again. 3/4 of mass shootings are done w/legally obtained weapons in the USA. I’ll be glad to dig up more stats for shootings here and elsewhere if you’ll admit up front that you think otherwise and that if you’re proven wrong, that proves tighter gun control appears to be working in the UK, Canada, Australia, etc… instead of just running away to a new topic… like you have the last half dozen times I’ve done this for y’all.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map
December 17th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
Interesting map, Ben.
Thank you for posting it. Kind of weird how many of these shootings with “legally obtained guns” happen in states with strict gun control that get high marks from anti-gun campaigns.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
@641,642
I knew you poseurs would out yourselves and start making ass-sex references. Mission accomplished.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
* Not “anti-gun”, I meant pro-control
December 17th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
Well Hammer, since you’re a fan of statistics and such, go up and read post #462, and the attached information before you draw anymore conclusions from the skewed numbers and false garbage you’re trying to use.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Broken Hammer: the source you cite in comment 643 above is absolute crap. Any source that claims the weapons used by Lanza last week were “obtained legally” is baldfaced lying.
At 20, Lanza was not old enough to legally purchase firearms in CT. He obtained them by stealing them – after murdering his own mother. They were her weapons, not his.
Theft of a dead woman’s property is not a legal way to obtain anything.
Geez, you’re not even trying.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:27 pm
Broken Hammer: by the way, should we construe your assertion that comment 642 contains an “ass sex reference” as some kind of admission on your part about your relationship with . . . . um, never mind. I don’t think I really want to know the details.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:29 pm
@643 Despite the mediazation of mass shootings they remain very rare. I asked you the number of murder committed by legal firearms versus illegal firearms.
And furthermore, you I cited the fact that Norway has the most guns per capita in Europe but the lowest murder rate. That shows that gun ownership alone is not the causation of the murder rate. You conveniently want to gloss over the fact that we have a third world country in our backyard which inflates out murder rate. You conveniently want to gloss over the fact that gun regulation does not guarantee an end to gun violence- see China and makeshift weaponry.. Come out of your myopic ivory colored utopia and see the world as the complex place it is.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
@640
For the 3rd time, why do you think Mexico is a closer match to the United States than Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, etc? Why do you think the effect of gun control laws in Mexico is more relevant to the US than the effect of such laws in Canada, the UK, Australia, Germany, etc?
Y’all have asked me for clarification or links half a dozen times. I’ve given it to you. I’m asking you for clarification… but you just keep dick-dancing in golf shoes.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:37 pm
He won’t, melle1228. He’s drunk the Kool-Aid and is convinced that “guns . . . bad”, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. He’s incapable of comprehending that guns – like knives, saws, hammers, screwdrivers, ropes, pulleys, automobiles, airplanes, pesticides, and virtually every other invention of mankind – are neither inherently good nor evil. Rather, intent and outcome are governed by the user, not the tool.
Of course, I’d not expect a tool to be able to comprehend that. And in the second part of Broken Hammer’s screen name, he freely admits he’s a tool.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Again NO CAUSATION between increased gun ownership and homocide..
“Despite increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease in the United States for the fourth straight year in 2010, according to the FBI.
The FBI recently released its Crime in The United States statistics for 2010. Overall, murders in the U.S. have decreased steadily since 2006, dropping from 15,087 to 12,996. Firearms murders — which made up 67 percent of all murders in the U.S. in 2010 — have followed this trend, decreasing by 14 percent”
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gun-crime-continues-to-decrease-despite-increase-in-gun-ownership/#ixzz2FMqEm4Ct
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010
December 17th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
@648
Adam Lanza was a legal resident in his mother’s house. You know, like you live in your mom’s basement, munching down Cheetohs and fighting the Kenyan Marxist Tyranny on your computer?
You’re telling me that leaving your guns out where your schizo mentally-ill kid can get them is somehow an argument against stricter controls on who can buy Bushmasters w/30 round MAGAZINES?
December 17th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
@653
“Despite increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease…” So I guess you’re saying that the increase in gun sales means that there are more US households with guns? And if the opposite were true, than the drop in gun crimes would be cause of that drop in ownership.
Right you are. The drop in gun crimes has been accompanied by a drop in households with guns.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/23/news/la-pn-crime-is-down-and-so-is-gun-ownership-20120722
And they’ve decreased even more in countries with laws that make it harder for mentally ill and criminally violent to get their hands on guns. In Australia, for example.
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
December 17th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
Have you been in the Lanza house, Hammerhead? You know for a fact that Mrs. Lanza left her guns out so her “schizo mentally-ill kid” could use them to murder her? OR, are you just making yet another WAG?
It’s at least as probable that Lanza assaulted his mother, gained control of the key to wherever the guns were stored, and got a gun, went back and pumped 4 rounds into his mom’s head. Then set off in search of his 15 minutes of fame.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
No, it’s an example of illegally obtained firearms. The argument against stricter gun control laws is found in the information I provided and you still haven’t read.
And for the record, Adam’s mental problems manifest themselves while he was still in middle school. The biggest problem here is an individual that should have been institutionalized but wasn’t, most likely in part because our PC society doesn’t allow ‘labels’ anymore, and institutionalizing someone is next to impossible thanks to the well meaning but totally idiotic efforts of the ACLU.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:52 pm
And for the third time, Brainless Hammer – I never made any such assertion. What I said was that other factors are much more important than laws regulating firearms.
I’m also not obligated to answer your incomplete and leading question merely because you want an answer. Don’t like that fact? Tough. Deal with it. Not your call whether or not I answer your question, dipstick.
Mexico’s firearms laws are similar – or perhaps even more strict – than those of several European countries. Yet Mexico has a higher violent crime and murder rate than does most if not all European nations. Yet Canada has similar firearms laws – and has a lower violent crime and murder rate.
Further: US homicide rates vary widely by location. Take Utah – which in 2009 had the lowest Brady Score (a numerical measure of the strictness of a state’s legal restrictions on gun ownership) in the US at ZERO. Utah had a firearms homicide rate of 0.70 per 100k citizens – about 1/4 of the national average. Several states tied for the next-lowest Brady Score (2); these ranged from states having firearms homicide rates of less than 1/3 the national average to the highest in the nation. Several states tied for the third-lowest Brady Score (4); these ranged from the lowest firearms homicide rate in the nation (ZERO, in North Dakota) to the third-highest in the nation. Conversely, the state with the 5th-highest Brady Score in the US – Maryland – had the second-highest firearms murder rate in the entire US.
In short: there simply is no statistical correlation between restrictive firearms ownership laws and gun homicide. Other factors govern a locality’s firearms murder rate.
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=30444
December 17th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
And, in #655, you state, “The drop in gun crimes has been accompanied by a drop in households with guns”. While conveniently(for your argument) leaving off this sentence, “public support for gun control measures has plummeted as well”. Seems you have a penchant for half-truths.
December 17th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
@655 So you would support YOUR medical records being public records right? You would cede YOUR right to privacy?
Again you show no causation, Chicago should have NO guns based on its laws and crime is soaring.
BTW, so is gun crimes in England..
December 17th, 2012 at 11:00 pm
Brainless Hammer: even a second-grader with a learning disability understands that a dead person cannot legitimately be held responsible for actions they did not cause which occurred after they are dead. This is particularly true when you’re talking about the actions of the same lunatic who murdered them.
Talk about blaming the victim. What’s next – are you going to claim that the shooter was a victim too, or that the other victims somehow “brought this on themselves”? Have you no common sense, decency, or shame?
I guess not. And that doesn’t surprise me one whit.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:02 pm
Ben Hammer do you even read your own links? Again causation. Austrailia’s homocide by gun has been decreasing since 1969 accrding to YOUR source. Their gun restrictions weren’t even passed until 1996, so please tell me how they were decreasing even without legislation..mmm?
December 17th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
@648: Don’t forget that Lanza attempted to purchase a rifle 2 weeks ago and was denied, so the current system worked and he had to murder his mom in order to get the guns he used.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
@652
“guns bad” — y’all are pathetic . I’m a gun owner who spent 9 years as a 12B and 11A. Unlike you, I think leaving a Booooshmaster w/30 round MAGAZINES (god, that was priceless, you dweebs claiming that calling a magazine a ‘clip’ proved that Cole wasn’t a cav trooper) or a Glock or a Sig or an mk19 grenade launcher out where your violent schizo kid can get them is bad. That stuff needs to be under lock and key in any house.
Irresponsible fools like poor Mrs Lanza or the whackjob w/the concealed carry in FL last month who killed the kid for playing music too loud and the nutjob w/the concealed carry in Seattle who offed 5 people in May shouldn’t be allowed to own weapons like those.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:11 pm
@663
So you’re saying the CT gun laws that kept Lanza from buying another weapon worked? Good. I agree. OTOH, they need to be toughened up so the weapons he used wouldn’t have been in a house w/a violent mentally ill 20 year old.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
Hondo
It’s called a debating technique. It’s used to illicit an expected response from an adversary which helps to make your original argument, i.e. we already have reasonable gun regulations, in this case on automatic weapons. My argument is not we should ban all guns, it’s that we already have reasonable restrictions on guns. Thus why is it ridiculous to ask about regulating semi-autos and things like high capacity magazines?
I’m sorry that you don’t understand that there are various techniques to present an argument and one of those is to use a device that has the other side acknowledge that part of your argument is valid, while they think they are advancing their own.
Your response was equally predictable, “you fooled me into agreeing with something you are saying so your argument doesn’t count”.
And if you think that automatic weapons shouldn’t be regulated the I ask where do you draw the line? If you believe in the purity of the second amendment then you can’t say I shouldn’t be able to have any weapon I want, RPG’s SAM’s, etc., otherwise you are just cherry picking the 2nd. OTOH if you admit that society has an overwhelming need to regulate the arms people can have, then I ask again, why should things like high capacity magazines, or certain semi-auto guns be exempt from such regulations?
December 17th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
@664 Yep but what you are talking about is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY– Good luck trying to regulate that. The state of Connecticut had NO reason to deny gun ownership to the late Ms. Lanza, and short of digging into the medical records(which I am sure the left will denounce) of her and ALL the members of her household- no legislation would have stopped this tragedy. We keep going back to this. Connecticut also had an assault weapon ban on par with the one that expired federally…
December 17th, 2012 at 11:19 pm
No, Hammer – you are a pathetic jackass and a crass opportunist. Here, you’re deliberately blaming one of the victims vice placing blame on the perpetrator where it belongs. And you’re doing so for no other reason than to further a political agenda.
That is absolutely disgusting. As are you for doing so.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:26 pm
If the violent, mentally ill, 20 year old had been in an institution where he belonged we wouldn’t have had to worry about it at all.
Wonder how many kids he could have wiped out by slamming through recess in an automobile at 60 mph and cuttin a few ‘cookies’, maybe his mom shouldn’t have been allowed to own a vehicle either eh?
December 17th, 2012 at 11:26 pm
Confused: I am aware that Brainless Hammer is trying – and failing pathetically – to bait. He’s proving himself a fool and a tool while doing so.
However, blaming the victim is way over the line. Only a completely disgusting jackass stoops to that crap.
Don’t apologize for him. Let him either apologize for himself – or continue to show the world his ugly ass.
As I recall, the only place I’ve mentioned automatic weapons above was to castigate you for either (1) deliberately dissembling or (2) showing abject ignorance concerning what automatic weapons are in one of your previous comments. Did you ever decide whether you wanted to own up to being mendacious, or to merely displaying ignorance?
December 17th, 2012 at 11:36 pm
@662
You really want to discuss Australia’s homicide rates in the 70s and 80s and 90s? Really? Tell me your theory… and use numbers with links, please. Hope you note that the % of Australian households with guns fell pretty much the entire time.
A couple years after the laws were passed in 1997 (in response to a paranoid schizo w/an AR killing 35 people), homicides began falling sharply . Gun homicides fell even more sharply, to less than half what they were. The rate of firearm-related homicides in 2009 per 100,000 people was .09. In the US? It was 40x that. 3.7.
Now correlation isn’t necessarily causation.
Other variable could’ve accounted for part of this fall. But in the absence of other explanations — and none of you have offered any — a firearm-related homicide rate that’s 1/40th of ours deserves a closer look.
And that’s not counting the 1000s of accidental firearm deaths and injuries, suicides, etc…
December 17th, 2012 at 11:39 pm
@671 You want me to dispute information from the source YOU provided. Bwaaahhaaaa..
December 17th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
I notice that you mooks have quit claiming that Mexico is more like the USA than Canada/Australia/the UK/Germany.
Good job, mooks.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
@672
You’re the one who accepted that source and cited it to say that I was misinterpreting it. If you’ve changed your mind and no longer accept it, explain why. We promise not to laugh.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:53 pm
Seriously folks, you do realize nobody’s gonna take away your guns? Just like nobody’s been going to take them away for the last 4 years?
I and the huge majority of Americans believe the present laws need to be enforced (google up the vids of the Bloomberg sting on gun show sellers selling to guys saying that they couldn’t pass a background check), non-hunting weapons need to be more tightly controlled and that the mentally ill shouldn’t have guns.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2012/12/gun-control-policies.jpg
If you like to go hawntin’ with a Booooooshmaster w/a 30 rnd banana MAGAZINE or leave it lying around the house where your violent schizo kid can get his hands on it… you’re part of the problem.
December 17th, 2012 at 11:56 pm
Confused writes – ” If you believe in the purity of the second amendment then you can’t say I shouldn’t be able to have any weapon I want, RPG’s SAM’s, etc., otherwise you are just cherry picking the 2nd.”
You’re attempting to frame the debate within extremely transparent parameters while engaging in some also transparent hyperbole. We should all have access to what the average infantry grunt would be expected to show up to the party with in a hurry should the nation ever call on us. Large caliber assault and battle rifles, and high cap mags fit the bill perfectly, they also fit the spirit and the letter of the 2nd.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:00 am
And Hammer, still waiting for you to read the honest stats on gun violence and self defense provided above. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock…..
December 18th, 2012 at 12:02 am
@677 You will be waiting awhile. He doesn’t even read his own links.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:06 am
Hondo,
I wasn’t defending hammer, I wasn’t even referring to him.
Did you not read my reply to you. Yes, I was intentionally dissembling help to prove my point. I wanted Ranger to respond to my post by talking about how we already regulate automatic weapons, so that I could respond with, “exactly my point”. He didn’t argue that we should legalize automatic weapons, so my question to everyone is; if we already regulate guns, and the world hasn’t come to an end, then why can’t there be a discussion about what other weapons or accessories should be looked at?
And if all guns should be legal because of the 2nd amendment, then what other arms should also be legal. Either the 2nd amendment allows everybody to own any weapon, or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, then why are certain things sacred to the NRA types.
Instead of giving me a credible reason for having things like high capacity magazines you choose to pick on a device used to further part of my argument. It’s called deflection, ignoring the actual argument and focusing on the irrelevant because you think it scores you argument “points”. Things like focusing on terms like clip instead of magazine as if that adds anything to your side of the debate.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:40 am
Jacobite:
“We should all have access to what the average infantry grunt would be expected to show up to the party with in a hurry should the nation ever call on us”
That’s a pretty silly interpretation of the second amendment. It wasn’t about the minuteman idea. If it was then they certainly could have delineated those parameters. They wanted to raise a militia because there was no provision to keep a standing army. Again, canons, the most up to date arms at the time were privately owned, and the owners often temporarily loaned their arms to regional militias. Also, today’s average grunt would be equipped with things like grenades would they not? 2nd amendment fetishists talk about it as it is absolute. Then ignore the fact that at the time the term “arms” did not just refer to guns.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:03 am
Friends of Nancy Lanza are speaking out to denounce the looney left’s description of her as a “gun nut doomsday prepper”. Good job you fucking morons, missing the mark as usual.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:10 am
@657
“institutionalizing someone is next to impossible thanks to the well meaning but totally idiotic efforts of the ACLU.”
Care to tell me why the kid wasn’t in a group home? The poor foolish woman made the call to keep her violent son in the house w/an unlocked arsenal that she thought was gonna see her through the coming Kenyan Marxist Tyranny (she evidently believed all the crap she heard on Rush and Fox 24/7). That was her call. She could probably have had him institutionalized but, ever since Ronald Reagan, there hasn’t been funding for mental hospitals, so it would’ve cost her a fortune.
If he wasn’t taking his meds, that’s the fault of our present system. The present situation has families forced to deal with “adults” who are in reality, still children, without much (often without any) support from the rest of us. That has to change. So, even if the law were such that “adults” could be forced to take their meds and undergo tx, we’ve slashed funding so much that there’s no resources to help families make it happen.
If you want to blame the ACLU for those laws, that’s fine. That means you and I need to step up and help change the law… and, with our taxes, help fund treatment for the millions of mentally ill. About 50 million, as it happens.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/19/us-usa-health-mental-idUSTRE80I0DC20120119
December 18th, 2012 at 1:14 am
I guess hammeroid here isn’t going to pay attention to what people that KNEW Nancy Lanza are saying about her. Of course not, that would only prove you wrong and all your vitriol as pure bull shit. It’s ok though, you weren’t fooling anyone here anyways.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:16 am
Jacobite,
I’ve responded to most of the requests for clarification and links. Haven’t seen your compadres return that courtesy to my request for other explanations as to why homicide rates have fallen all over the 1st world as gun ownership rates have fallen. In a 600+ thread, you probably should expect that I would miss a couple requests. Feel free to repost them.
Or use the magic of reverse peristalsis to bunch your panties all the way to your duodenum. Makes no nevermind to me.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:18 am
@681 – Yeah, Redacted, I did provide multiple links to valid news reports, including interviews with her sister-in-law, that clearly showed there was no reference in those reports that Nancy Lanza was in any way connected to the doomsday ideology or that she was a prepper.
All of that came from the looney tunes on the left, and it was based on nothing, made up out of whole cloth, to vilify the first victim in a string of murderous attacks.
The loons on the left are turning into the worst sort of carrion feeders imaginable. Their behavior and rumor-mongering is baseless and defenseless. I guess they just don’t give a crap whose lives they ruin as long as they get to spout lies about people who have done nothing to deserve that.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:20 am
Too emotionally fragile in my opinion Ex-PH, the fact they link everyone who owns a firearm to this kid is indicative of a mental disorder.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:25 am
@683
Vitriol. This from the crew that lies about veteran’s service records and can’t stop talking about ass sex. Now that’s summmmm funnnnyy sheeeet.
Nancy Lanza was getting $289,000/year in alimony. Unlike most parents of mentally ill adult children, she could’ve afforded to get him more care.
Irregardless of that, she was very aware of how dangerous the kid was. To keep ARs and large-capacity handguns unlocked in the house with him was foolish. But you evidently think otherwise. That’s insane.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:26 am
@569: “Gun Free Zones” should be renamed “Victim Marshaling Area”. The evidence bears this out. Why did the chucklehead in Aurora go to a theater further from his apartment? Because he knew it was a “gun free zone”. Why such a loss of life at Virginia Tech? Because it was a “gun free zone”. Same thing at the elementary school.
Damn! Now that I know that, Im going to call my two Senators and my Congressman right away and tell them to get rid of those metal detectors at Congress!
And right after that, I’m going to call the guys at airport security and tell explain how my local airport will be a far, far safer place if they’d just get rid of those stupid, useless metal detectors.
Who knew security could be so easy?
I’m sure we can achieve a “Somalia” level of security in this country in 2013!
December 18th, 2012 at 1:27 am
I do? There you go jumping to conclusions again. Now, please cite EXACTLY where I said that. Verbatim please. Wouldn’t want to confuse you any further.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:31 am
Take your time, I know it’s alot of work to sift through 650+ posts, most of which is pure bullshit from Cole’s completely retarded followers.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:41 am
If only Lanza’s mother had firearms, this all could have been prevented…
And remember you gun grabbing commie fucks, if Lanza didn’t have guns then he simply would have just built a zeppelin and crashed it into the school.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:48 am
@691
Guns don’t kill people, YAG YAS. If Adam Lanza hadn’t of had a Boooooshmaster with 30 rnd MAGAZINES, he would’ve beaten his way through the windows of the school and then killed those 20 kids and 6 teachers with his tiny, ineffectual fists.
50 million mentally ill Americans all need Boooooshmasters and banana MAGAZINES. Then we’ll be safe.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:51 am
So gun owners are all mentally ill now? Like I said. Emotionally fragile. Hard time finding that post substantiating your horseshit in 687? Ok. I’ll give you a break since you seem to have a hard time thinking for yourself. You’re not gonna find it.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:57 am
@693
Meh. He’s just mentally challenged. He is incapable of reading a full sentence and keeping it in context. I’m done with him.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:16 am
Redacted and Nik,
50 million Americans are mentally ill or experienced an episode of mental illness in the past year. Thanks for playing, dweebs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/06/AR2005060601651.html
“One-quarter of all Americans met the criteria for having a mental illness within the past year, and fully a quarter of those had a “serious” disorder that significantly disrupted their ability to function day to day…”
December 18th, 2012 at 2:44 am
So gun owners are all mentally ill now?
Hmmm… Yeah, that IS a good question… Well, I live in Canada and I don’t actually know that many people who own guns.
I know a guy who owns some hunting rifles and he’s a good guy… But let me tell you about my wife’s cousins, and see if they remind anybody of the guys who post here.
Retired from their city jobs in the public sector union jobs and getting nice pensions, they’ve moved to the country, where they’ve got lots of time to read right wing newspapers and listen to right wing radio, bitch about their taxes, complain about people on welfare, “niggers”, “fags”
They have a small arsenal of weapons with which they’ve managed to kill most of the larger animals who live on their wooded property.
Their fondest dream is to one day “shoot a communist”… No, I didn’t make that up, it is an actual quote.
Interestingly enough, they were fervent supporters of the Vietnam War, and of an age when they could have volunteered to join the US Army to go fight in Vietnam, as many Canadians did at that time.
In fact, my wife, who often argued with them about the Vietnam War, many times encouraged them to do exactly that, but somehow that never happened.
You see the picture I’m painting here? Basically, I’m talking about hateful assholes with big mouths. I don’t know if “mentally ill” is quite accurate, but it ain’t too far off the mark, either.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:02 am
@618
“trying to present himself as someone who’d faced “great danger” in the military only exacerbates the effect.”
Your use of quotes makes the statement seem definitive. Could you please cite when he used that phrase?
If you have used “scare quotes” when you might have just as well merely summarized his position is unhelpful to a useful discussion. But again, this is the Internet, to there you go.
Sorry in advance if I missed when he said those exact words that you seem to have quoted directly.
I am not trying to be a pill, I just worry that you might be framing an argument using a flammable immobile object that frightens birds.
December 18th, 2012 at 4:02 am
@697
Is that even allowed?, no matter…
Correction.
I was probably trying to be a pill. My language and argument were inflammatory and I apologize for both.
Rough day.
P.S.: One more split infinitive, go team.
December 18th, 2012 at 5:55 am
@696 Oh wow, a leftist calling someone they don’t know personally who disagrees with them a racist, chickenhawk and a homophobe. I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
Good to see that leftist are the same; no matter what country they live in..
Psst 696, you do realize that most of the posters on here have served, many in ACTUAL combat– and they have proved their service… One of the purposes of this blog was to out the Stolen Valor idiots kinda hard to do when you are posing yourself..
December 18th, 2012 at 6:27 am
Another GUN NUT ILLITERATE!! All right-wing wackos are illiterate.
“Yeah, I’ve read some real stupid shit in teh interwebz today in regards to gun control”
In REGARDS???? The word is REGARD!!!
“gun grabbing facists”???
It’s FASCIST, you illiterate!!
December 18th, 2012 at 6:30 am
Laws don’t do anything to stop anyone from anything, so let’s have no laws or regulations at all.
DUH… brainwashed Republican moron logic
December 18th, 2012 at 6:32 am
But we are all for MIND CONTROL, PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING AND PROFILING, AND MANDATORY DRUGS TO MAKE THE BIG PHARMA PRICKS EVEN RICHER.
December 18th, 2012 at 6:34 am
Gun-nut redneck truckfucks arent exactly the brightest poeple on the planet.
December 18th, 2012 at 6:58 am
mere mortal: the quotes were to identify a phrase that was being used sarcastically, as a figure of speech, or in a manner where it’s definition is in question. Those are all proper uses for quotation marks.
Indeed, what I wrote is a reasonable paraphrase of Cole’s actual statement quoted above, where he says he served “in the middle of one of the most dangerous regions in the world”. That implies Cole faced substantial personal danger. However, his service in Kuwait started well over 3 months after hostilities in Iraq had ended in Feb 1991 (the 11th ACR didn’t arrive in Kuwait until June 1991). That wasn’t exactly a particularly dangerous time to be in either Camp Doha or along the Iraq-Kuwait border. Why? NO HOSTILITIES.
How about you quit defending Cole. He was being deliberately misleading in his own writing, trying to come off as “Billy Badass” – and got caught. Let him take his lumps; he deserves them for exaggerating his actual service in order to make it seem he did something he did not.
December 18th, 2012 at 7:01 am
confused:
Regarding your deliberate misstatement of fact: thanks for clarification. Yes, I did read your reply – although I think you may be confusing what I said above and PowerPoint Ranger. He’s the one you were originally discussing automatic weapons with above.
Thanks also for confirming my suspicion that you don’t really want to discuss the issue rationally. Asking a leading question in order to set up a strawman you can then demolish isn’t rational discussion. Take that crap elsewhere.
As best I can tell (I’m not going to re-read 700 comments to verify; I simply don’t have the time today), neither PPR nor I have made any statements one way or the other regarding automatic weapons other than to observe that they’re unlawful. An unstated position on an issue is exactly that – unstated and (to you) unknown.
Are you so thick I have to punctuate “assume” as ASS-U-ME for you to get the point across?
December 18th, 2012 at 7:11 am
I see that gun purchases have skyrocketed over the past week. All of the left’s whining, gnashing of teeth, and urgings to disarm has been to no avail. And this without any NRA money being spent. Folks know a good deal when they see one. And our ability to arm ourselves for protection, for any other legal purpose, or for no particular purpose at all is a good deal. Thank goodness the left has disarmed. Can you imagine what the price of guns would be if the left also bought them?
Oh, anonymous, while you are busily comforting yourself and feeling superior because you discovered a typo or two, you might, you might consider learning proper punctuation. Multiple question marks and exclamation points are, as I said before to you, nothing more than a signal to potential readers that your writing is devoid of meaningful content.
December 18th, 2012 at 7:11 am
Brainless Hammer: you are an idiot. You obviously do not grasp the difference between using a source to support an argument and using that same source to show the original user was lying when they cited it. You also appear to have piss-poor reading comprehension – you’re the only one here who’s raised the issue about the US being more similar to Mexico than Europe (no one else has made that statement), yet you claim others are advocating that position. You also have engaged in “blame the victim” and using the deaths of innocents to further a political agenda; both are despicable behavior. And you appear to be projecting a fixation with anal sex – since you’re the one who keeps bringing up that subject, too. Are you trying to tell the world – consciously or unconsciously – that you’re confused about your own gender/sexual orientation? If so, please keep it to yourself; no one here cares.
Oh, and you can’t even do basic arithmetic. Last time I checked, ( 50 / 311.5 ) isn’t “one fourth”.
In short, you are a reprehensible, ignorant tool/fool as well who is little more a braying jackass. I’ll shed no tears if in the future I hear you’ve been hit by a bus, and shortly thereafter experience a quick trip to the Infernal Realm.
December 18th, 2012 at 7:14 am
Hey Canadian. STFU. In your country, free speech is terribly limited. Is that why you comment here?
December 18th, 2012 at 7:18 am
Yeah, 2-17 Air Cav – “Anonymous” (700-703) sounds quite educated and literate, doesn’t he? I’m constantly hearing highly educated and intelligent people use terms like “truckfuck” and make claims like “all right-wing gun nuts are illiterate”.
I especially love it when they do so while debating a group they consider to be “right wing gun nuts” on an Internet discussion board – while using written English.
December 18th, 2012 at 7:42 am
Well, you know the drill, Hondo. Just as they like to FEEL about matters, rather than think about them, so too do they enjoy attacking blindly, using their arsenal of bad words and ill intentions as argument substitutes. They cannot persuade so they look to the government to force themselves and their agenda on the rest of us. But the govenment can’t get the guns and that has them positively crazy. What’s more, after the murderous rampage of that evildoer, gun sales are through the roof. These terrible incidents convince more and more everyday people that their safety and the safety of those they love is truly in their hands alone.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:01 am
The lefties like to talk about leveling the playing field. Of course, by that they mean that the rest of us must be as suffering and exposed as they. Whether it’s redistributing the wealth of others or ensuring that we are as vulnerable to harm as they are, it’s all the same. Rather than work to uplift themselves, they prefer the easy and lazy route of having the government take us down to their level. It’s a common human characteristic to be envious of others and the left thrives on it, all the while pretending (and even convincing themselves) that what they do is good.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:04 am
@665: You say the laws need to be toughed up so that a household with a mentally ill, or violent person, can’t purchase these weapons? Ok; how do you do that? Open up medical records of everyone living in the house to make them public? Do we have a 4th and 10th Amendment in this country? Should we dispense with them as well? I have shown a couple examples where armed citizens have stopped massacres, but you want to ignore that; why? Why not look at making it so people can protect themselves from evil doers? In pretty much every case in the last 10 years, the bad guy is not stopped by the police, but either by an armed citizen, or they take themselves deep. You want to focus on the rifle used as though that is the sole reason for this. You would probably faint if you knew what me and my friends have and yet none of those weapons have harmed anyone. The old argument of “why do you need them” is a strawman that can be applied to pretty much anything in society, but is always trotted out by the anti-gunners. You want to focus on tougher gun laws without being specific on what you mean by “tougher”. You say no one wants to take our guns, yet pretty much every proposal you and your friends have forwarded do just that. There are laws already on the books that deal with child safety locks on firearms in a house where children are present, so what would be the next step, since you think that is inadaquet? Of course; laws are only good if people follow them, same as signs that say “gun free zone”.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:06 am
LOL at 700-703. That was a charming little hate-masterbation scene.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:16 am
@707
“you’re the only one here who’s raised the issue about the US being more similar to Mexico than Europe (no one else has made that statement), ”
Hondo, I said that the violence rates were closer to Mexico than Europe. Of course, he intentionally misconstrued what I was saying because it was inconvenient to his position to acknowledge what was actually said.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:24 am
@549: Please show me where it is the publics “right” to not have high capacity magazines around? Show me where the “right” to feel safe is located.
Police don’t need high capacity magazines anymore than the public, in your definition. They do not seek out situations where high capacity magazines are warranted. That’s just more of your fantasizing, again.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:30 am
@602: Respond to the Pearl MS high school shooting I put out there. And, if you want, here is another example:
If one of the hundreds of people at the theater had a concealed handgun, possibly the attack would have ended like the shooting at the mega New Life Church in Colorado Springs in December 2007.
In that assault, the church’s minister had given Jeanne Assam permission to carry her concealed handgun. The gunman killed two people in the parking lot — but when he entered the church, Assam fired 10 shots, severely wounding him. At that point, the gunman committed suicide.
And yes, the gunman in Oregon did see the armed citizen and that’s why he retreated and took himself deep. Just like Lanza in CT, who saw the officer pointing his weapon at him and took himself out.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:34 am
@716
That’s the problem, OT. When armed citizens intervene, the body count doesn’t grow to noticeability.
In Aurora, there were two Air Force and one Navy injured in the attack. If it wasn’t “Victim Roundup Zone” (read as “Gun Free Zone”) and if they were carrying a weapon, there might well have been zero casualties.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:47 am
Now, anti-gunners and all those “reasonable, common sense gun law” types:
Concealed carry works. With proper training and being armed in the school, the CT massacre could have been minimized. I know you don’t like it when facts get in the way of your utopian fantasy world. Reasonable, responsible, and common sense driven discussion can include people being allowed to carry a firearm for protection and for allowing them in schools with those trained and permitted to do so. All the laws on the books will not stop someone from doing evil. That is a fact that those living in their utopian world cannot come to grips with. Bath, Michigan, in 1927, was the worst school massacre in our history and there were no firearms of any kind used. All the calls for getting rid of “high capacity” magazines, or scary looking rifles, will only make you “feel” safe, but will do nothing in reality. Did the 1994 AWB stop murders by “assault weapons”, even though the FBI statistics showed that only .3% of gun crimes were committed with “assault weapons” back in ’93? I think that the emotionally charged replies show that the only discussion that anti-gun people want to have is how do we ban high capacity mags and “assault weapons” for the general public, because that will solve the problem in their mind.
With that, I’m done trying to educate those that think they are weapons experts because they saw an “assault weapon” once at a gun range. No amount of information, examples, statistics, or common sense will change their mind as long as they keep going in circles with the same arguments over and over, no matter how many times you can refute them.
Good luck with all that.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:53 am
I thought I would help the anti-gun nuts out today. Rather than incessantly repeat themselves they can just reference this comment, a synopsis of most of their blatherings here to date, agree with it and be gone.
‘You people are so stupid!!!!! Children were massacred and you heartless bastards don’t care!!!! You backwoods, hillbilly, illiterate, rednecks are responsible for those deaths just as if you had pulled the trigger!!!!! I hate, hate, hate all of you!!!!’
December 18th, 2012 at 9:09 am
Nice summary, 2-17 Air Cav. But it’s much more literate and better-written than 90% of gun-confiscating idiot trolls above would come up with. Here’s my summary of their position:
“Guns bad! Anywon who want gun bad! Anywon who not agree with me evil! Po-po and guvermint will keep us all saif! No one need gun!”
No, that’s not what everyone on the anti-gun side would say. But I’d guess that would be the sentiment of around 70% of such fools.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:35 am
@719/720: The mantra of getting rid of “high capacity magazines” boils down to this: They are giving us a number of bodies that are acceptable to be sacrificed. They obviously have a problem with 30 round mags, yet they haven’t offered up what capacity mag they are proposing. Ok, anti-gunners; what is an acceptable body count?
December 18th, 2012 at 9:41 am
Old Trooper: let me predict their answer: “One is too many”.
Here’s my answer: “Gee – no shit, Sherlock. Tell us something we didn’t already know. We happen to agree.
So now, how about you tell us how you propose to get there – along with demonstrating how your proposal will do that without infringing on rights guaranteed by the Constitution?”
Don’t hold your breath waiting for them to answer my question.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:47 am
OT. The outcry for taking some guns is merely a prelude to the next step: taking some more. It’s an incremental process that has been wending its way through the country for decades. It is clothed in urgency every time another lunatic, using a gun to work his evil, hits the front pages. When that happens, the gun-elimination program lurches forward, bypassing deliberation and careful scrutiny. That’s why the Connecticut massacre is so welcome by the gun grabbers. It’s one of those crisis opportunities they yearn would hapopen with more frequency. They’re nor happy people are killed but there is no bringing them back so they may as well make the most of it for their cause.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:52 am
Hey, it’s Tuesday morning and the diatrbie hasn’t stopped yet. Looks like the people with the most visceral anger didn’t hear the call for sleepy-time last night, and go to their little trundle beds like sensible children.
Oh, well, something always catches my attention, so I make a note of it, like this from mere mortal in #697 above: “you might be framing an argument using a flammable immobile object that frightens birds.”
That’s funny. I like that. Made me laugh. And I think I’ll swipe and use it somewhere not on this board. And I won’t give mere mortal any credit, either. No, I’ll just steal and claim and use it.
Oh, yes, I can, and freqently do, communicate in an erudite and elevated way, for your who are so wrapped up in your gut-griping animosity. That’s gut-griping, not gut-gripping. Yeah, my cats are smarter than the lot of you incoherent, rancorous cabbages.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:59 am
OFF TOPIC
Speaking of massacres, yesterday was the anniversary of the Malmedy Massacre and, of course, this month marks another year since Battle of the Bulge.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:01 am
I also like this from #695: 50 million Americans are mentally ill or experienced an episode of mental illness in the past year.
Yes, hammerhead, and you’re one of those 50 million. Nice to know what position you’re speaking from.
Ouch! Ending a sentence with a preposition. Naughty me!!! Flog me with a wet noodle.
Thank you for letting us know your mental state. Now we don’t have to figure it out for ourselves. You spared us all that work.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:09 am
Nik: true, but you specifically limited the scope of your comparison to rates of violence. You did not make a general comparison between the two societies as Bogus Hammer above claimed. In fact, he’s the only one to make such a general comparison here – period.
I’m beginning to believe Brainless Hammer is literally not bright enough to grasp the difference. But he could just be deliberately lying.
Or maybe a bit of both. My money’s on the combination.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:11 am
Hondo: I know. I just didn’t want there to be claims of “OMGZORZ HONDO LIEIEZ. He’s a lying face liar liar.” They’d be patently false, but that doesn’t seem to stop him.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:14 am
Appreciate that, Nik. But you know that won’t stop him from trying. And when he makes that claim, I’ll call him on the lie.
Whether he’ll be smart enough to understand he’s just made an ass out of himself – again – is another question.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:52 am
They throw around the term gun nut as if all gun owners own a billion guns each. Hey lefttards, some people only have one. And have it because they were threatened with loss of life before. But in your perfect Utopia, that doesn’t happen, does it?
December 18th, 2012 at 10:57 am
Hondo, you’re such an optimist.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:58 am
@730 – Yes, and some of us have none, but we do not expect others to throw theirs out because of our non-gun ownership.
December 18th, 2012 at 11:01 am
Why I own and carry a firearm (qualifying me to be a paranoid nutt-job “prepper” according to Coles buddies.) I choose not to be helpless in this kind of situation.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/M1u0Byq5Qis?showinfo=0&rel=0
I also wear a helmet while riding my motorcycle, a seat belt when in a moving vehicle, and have homeowner’s, auto, and life insurance. Do these make me a paranoid nutt-job “prepper” as well?
December 18th, 2012 at 11:48 am
The silence from the nasty people is now deafening.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
I’m a nutjob!
I’m a racist!
I’m an asshole!
December 18th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
@735
You’re actually just another limp wristed sally. You know it, we know it, everyone knows it.
Accept it, drink water, and drive on.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
@735
That post is like a retarded koala. Some people might think it’s cute…but it’s still very dumb.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
@735: you are all of that indeed. But I kinda doubt you’re in any way affiliated with the NRA.
Except maybe in your dreams – “just sayin’”.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Well, that’s a passing score of 75% (3 of 4). Only the screen name was wrong.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
@734. It’s before noon EST and only 8:40 or so PST. They’re still sleeping–well, all except for the self-confessed, racist, nutjob, and asshole, that is.
December 18th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
@ 735 I believe you … “I am the NRA!”
In your case NRA stands for: National Retardo Association.
You are the Chairman, President, CEO, and only employee.
And yes your are:
A nutjob!
A racist!
An asshole!
December 18th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
I don’t like green cars. I could probably, and more easily, make a case for making them illegal or even confiscating them all simply because there is no Conastitutional protection for them.
Instead, maybe I’ll just continue to dislike them, not own one because I don’t like them and leave everyone else alone if they have one. Because it’s, like, none of my business.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
I don’t like green cars either – that’s why I have a blue truck.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Odd #696, I don’t know any gun owners that act like that. Maybe your cousins are just assholes.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
@742. Many green cars, I am sorry to say, have been driven by drunks and sober negligent drivers, with the resultant deaths and maimings of many innocent people. Consequently, I think it’s our moral obligation to lobby Congress to ban green cars.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Aaaannnddd…we’ve blown through the record for longest TAH thread about 100 posts ago.
Good job, trolls. I knew you could be counted on for your incessant, inane blather.
Now we just need to pass some of those “high capacity Internet laws” because dammit, the Founding Fathers never envisioned it, or television, or other forms of mass communication where incredibly stupid people could bleat like little sheeple about things they’s skeered of…
HARRUMPH!! HARRUMPH!! HARRUMPH!!
December 18th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
@#721, OT, just heard Nazi Pelousy on the tube, apparently the acceptable number is anything less than 40, she said that no one should possess two 20 round mags. I do have to give her a pat on the head, for calling them clips, like Sen. Manchin did, again.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Green cars are dangerous … I heard about it on MSNBC. Must be true!
December 18th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
I can’t believe you bedwetting heroes haven’t yet found out where I live and come by to shoot my windows out. Come on, I’m clearly a deadly foe to freedom and all else you hold dear. What are you waiting for?
December 18th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
I don’t like green cars, either, because I was rear-ended by a green car, with a drunk driver in it. I was also nearly put into the ditch by a green car, with another drunk driver in it. Green cars seem to attract drunk drivers. Therefore, green cars are bad cars.
@746 – Sparky, are you saying this thread outdid any of DWhoozi-whatsis’s threads?
December 18th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
I’m fairly certain THAT would be a waste of time, mr. angry dentist. You may unwad your panties now.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Hey, guys, LOOOK! The pedo is back!
December 18th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
@#747, ARghhh, “For not calling them clips” is what I meant to type.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
@749 … if you are baiting it won’t work here.
BTW I have read your work … is it horribly boring and not intelligent. But it is entertaining.
I see you are a dentist … did you go to school with Herbie?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjW-ajAUFpw
December 18th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
@749
Nobody cares about you that much.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
@749. What’s up, doc? Feeling refreshed, now that you’ve had 12 hours sleep and are done playing with yourself while watching “Beaver in Leave It to Beaver” reruns?
December 18th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
“Those who would give up liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety ”
The world is a dangerous place, we like to accept the illusion that we are safe in our homes, safe on our streets, and generally safe wherever we go in the United States. It is important to remember it is an illusion, a weapon gives us better odds in an unsafe environment. It also prevents us from being victimized by our government or criminals which is how it was intended when written into the Bill of Rights.
Several people have mentioned when seconds count the police are only minutes away, I would also say that entering the world assuming you are safe every where you travel is naive and while well intentioned leaves you prone to being victimized because you are unprepared to face the world as it exists. We are certainly safer than we have been in decades from being murdered, but we are not 100% safe anywhere. The police can’t stop a plane from toppling the twin towers anymore than no guns stops a mass murderer from detonating a simple explosive device in a mall, church, or theater with mass casualties as a result. Look to Europe to see what bombs can do on a train, in a crowded open air market, or at a storefront in London on Christmas….
I find it interesting that liberals who claim to constantly fear the oppressive regimes of the right would want to disarm themselves and become subject to the whims of what many believe to be a tyrannical political party bent on their destruction.
Horrific crimes will never cease as long as men walk the earth, removing one form of weaponry doesn’t change that in the least. It just gives those enforcing the removal a sense they have done something to make us safer, when all they will have really accomplished is to make sure victims are unarmed for future perpetrators.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Come on, now, heroes, if I really am a pedophile, don’t you owe it to society to do something about that? Go on, sic the police on me, or if that’s too tame to get you off, you should at least come by and shoot me with your big, big guns.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:48 pm
You, punky, are a useless sack of crap and need to go play elsewhere. Got an interstate nearby?
December 18th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
I haven’t read what you’ve written today. Your screen name is enough. I’d hate to think I’m helping a pedophile get his jollies.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
What makes you think we haven’t told the poh-lease about you, perv boy?
December 18th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
I’ll leave this puke for those of you who haven’t had a crack at this puke dentist pedophile as yet. I have to do clean my guns and now is a good time.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
I’ll be waiting for the police to show up at my door forthwith, hero. But if you were as badass as you think you are, you wouldn’t hand the job off to somebody else, you’d come by and do the job yourself. Better shoot my wife and children and dog while you’re at it, you wouldn’t want your friends here to think you’d gone soft, now, would you?
December 18th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Zap…maybe you’re familiar with the phrase, “Waste of ammo?” Look in your mirror for a perfect example of such.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
To add more quotes from @Veritas Omnia Vincit’s post:
”Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
~Thomas Jefferson
“You won’t get gun control by disarming law-abiding citizens. There’s only one way to get real gun control: Disarm the thugs and the criminals, lock them up and if you don’t actually throw away the key, at least lose it for a long time… It’s a nasty truth, but those who seek to inflict harm are not fazed by gun controllers. I happen to know this from personal experience.”
~Ronald Reagan
”If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying — that they must sweep under the rug the southern attempts at gun control in the 1870-1910 period, the northeastern attempts in the 1920-1939 period, the attempts at both Federal and State levels in 1965-1976 — establishes the repeated, complete and inevitable failure of gun laws to control serious crime.”
~Senator Orrin Hatch
And before anyone screams that those were all old people and/or republian’s, here are a few from liberals (or ones of that mindset):
”As a card-carrying member of the liberal media, producing this piece was an eye opening experience. I have to admit that I saw guns as inherently evil, violence begets violence, and so on. I have learned, however, that in trained hands, just the presence of a gun can be a real “man stopper.” I am sorry that women have had to resort to this, but wishing it wasn’t so won’t make it any safer out there.”
~Jill Fieldstein
And lastly by a well renouwned pacifiaced
“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.”
~ Mahatma Gandhi
-Ish
December 18th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
You mean soft like Michael Jackson’s crank after feeding little boys Jesus Juice?
December 18th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
@763
I’m not sure where you got such delusions of grandeur. You’re not important to any of us. You’re certainly not important enough for us to drive to whatever hell you’ve consigned yourself to and face prosecution and conviction. You’re just not that important.
You’re entertainment. You’re nothing more than a distraction during the slow periods of a workday.
Now I’m guessing you’re considering a post full of sarcasm about how hurt you are by my words. Save yourself the effort. None of us care.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
@765
Those are good, but here’s one I really like. It’s from the Dalai Lama, 15 MAY 2001.
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
December 18th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
+ 1, Nik.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
Here’s a statistic that one and all should find interesting, from the local news station noontime survey:
Should schoolteachers be trained to use and allowed to carry guns?
75% — Yes
25% — No
These two guys escaped from the Chicago metropolitan correctional center this morning by climbing out a window, from 15 floors up, lowering themselves on ropes made out of bed sheets.
http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-police-2-prisoners-escape-metropolitan-correctional-center-in-loop-20121218,0,3769179.story
They’re both considered armed and dangerous. Both are convicted bank robbers. They both know how to use guns.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
I decided to give my two cents after reading the thread (to the trolls it was like bees to honey) and reading a opinion article in the NY Post which started with the argument that we do not need semi-automatic rifles that fire 100 rounds per second. It came from an educated man who shows the misinformation that abounds in even what could be called a right of center news outlet.
First using his argument I will agree with the writer if a gun fires 100 rounds per second it should be banned from civilian use, so no mini-gun for you, there is no semi-automatic with that rate (the cyclic rate for a fully auto M-16 is 700 rpm). I wish they would do a little research before writing.
As for assault rifles we have an assault rifle ban. By its definition an assault rifle is a selective fire rifle with a capability of shooting multiple rounds with a single trigger pull. They have been banned by the federal government for civilian ownership with very limited exceptions through the federal government, look up the National Firearms Act of 1934, Gun Control Act of 1968 and Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.
The assault weapons ban of 1994 did not ban assault weapons but rifles that looked like assault rifles. What is the difference in capabilities between a AR15 and a Mini 14, besides the ease of cleaning it, other than its appearance.
Now for some antidotal musings: I spent over 20 years as a cop in NYC during what could only described as the most violent modern period, mostly high crime and specialized commands. In the early 90′s 2,000 plus homicides plus who knows how many wounded. Personally seen knives, bats, wrenches, 2×4′s, pipes, rocks, cars, canes, poison, cooking implements, chains, rope, wire, straight razor, ice pick, boiling water, fire, screwdriver, pipe bomb, plastic bags, hands, feet and yes guns: revolvers, semi-auto pistols, shot guns, rifle, sawed off rifle, derringer and there is more but you get the idea. Assault weapon nope, something that looks like an assault weapon yes but not by me and it does not happen often.
Now how many were committed by licensed firearm owners, which is hard to get in NYC for pistols, for the ones I was involved in, one, and I’m sorry to say it was a off-duty cop. I also did have a few suicides with registered gun owners.
I believe the worst mass murder in NYC was 87 in 1990 by arson in the Bronx. So much for legal gasoline in the hands of a sick mind or for that matter any other legal implement.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
@707
Hondo says: “Brainless Hammer: you are an idiot, (blahblahblah more dumbass invective)… you’re the only one here who’s raised the issue about the US being more similar to Mexico than Europe (no one else has made that statement),”
It’s a long thread, so I can see you forgot a lot. Hereyago.
Check out Nik’s 617 “Why are our rates lower than that of Mexico, even though they have stricter gun laws than we do?”
And melle1228 @620 where he says, “@617 (Nik) @617 And gun violence is on the rise in China despite their draconian laws against gun. Don’t have access to a gun or a weapon- criminals and murderers will just make one.”
HONDO chimes in at 620 “Nik: sounds to me like Broke Hammer just admitted that gun laws are irrelevant and don’t work very well to control gun violence. In fact, it seems like he distinctly said that societal factors were far more important than legal prohibitions.”
And Nik again @632 “And parts of the US are more like Mexico than Canada.”
Thisainthell is for poseurs who call out veterans like John Cole’s service records, get their false claims shot out from under them in flames… and walk away from the burning rubble, shouting “VICTORY!”
And for moms-basement-dwellers who think a narco turf war in Mexico or communist corruption in China is like being served warm beer in the UK or Canada.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
@768 – Nik, four paws up from me and Mikey the Large and In Charge.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
As predicted. Intentionally misconstrued what was actually said into what they wish had been said.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
If you believe that stopping a dangerous pedophile is a “waste of ammo”, then it’s no wonder you don’t really care enough about 20 dead children to want to do something to make it a little harder for the next would-be pscyco who wants to shoot up a school. Or maybe you don’t want to stop pedophiles because you fantasize about that shit yourself…
December 18th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
@771, I also provided a long list of common household objects, including cooking stuff like cooking spray, that can be used as assault weapons. I can come up with even more than I posted.
And I’m not giving up my archery stuff or my short sword.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
NHSparky: not yet, one of the Wittgenfeld threads has nearly 800. But we’ll bust that pretty soon.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
Ex-Ph2
Only was listing the ones I was involved with. In reality anything could be used.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
Confused (great and accurate screen name for you BTW),
If your carefully laid intellectual trap was for me to state a fact about current law, you went to a lot of effort for no real good reason. You’re also proving my point in spades, as per my initial response to you.
That point was that any concession of a supposedly “reasonable” restriction (i.e, full autos) to people of your particular bent only fuels the fire to continually redefine the word itself and use it as a rhetorical weapon against those who disagree, until everyone has knuckled under to your desires. Instead of looking at that as common ground or compromise, all you can do is look for the next coercive victory in the imposition of your will upon others.
If you want to have a real discussion of the limits of the 2nd Amendment, try some intellectual honesty and say what you actually want. I won’t hold my breath, because all you’ve done so far is try (badly) to play stupid “Gotcha!” games without any attempt to have a substantive discussion. Your contempt for people who choose to own, maintain and maintain proficiency with modern firearms also shines through, on the false premise that we’re children who like loud noises and “cool” features in need of your purportedly wise and enlightened adult restraint.
What you are is intellectually lazy, irrationally fearful and functionally ignorant on the realities of the issue at hand. Instead of focusing on the commonalities of the very small number of individuals who already violate scores of laws when they commit terrible acts, you take the safe and thought-free route of focusing your ire and contempt against those who function quite well within the civil society (despite having scary looking rifles) and ignore anything slightly uncomfortable (culture and mental health). No matter how often you get your way in the society and legal system, you’re always just one law or new regulation short of making everything perfect for everyone and ending all bad things.
Such is the folly and hubris of the Utopian Statist.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
@779 PowerPointRanger says “any concession of a supposedly “reasonable” restriction (i.e, full autos) to people of your particular bent only fuels the fire to continually redefine the word itself and use it as a rhetorical weapon against those who disagree”
So absolutely no change in the status quo is possible cause the slope is so slippery, ehhh?
Well, that’s the definition of a totally closed mind. The kind of mind that thinks that it’s fine for Bushmaster owners to leave their weapons/ammo unlocked where violent mentally ill family members can use them to kill 20 kids and 6 teachers… and that laws that allow mentally ill psychos like the Seattle Cafe Racer mass murderer to get a concealed carry permit.
But absolutely no changes in the status quo are possible, because… slipper slope to the abyss of total ban on guns.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
This is still going? Wow!
Gee, I almost wish I was a dentist that could troll online all day. You must have a REALLY successful practice!
As far as Been Hammered, he’s a little less moronic, but only a little.
Carry on, trolls.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
Evil people will do evil things and no amount of gun control or “prevention laws” are really going to do anything to stop them. To paraphrase from an old sergeant major acquaintance: if wolves are attacking your sheep, you don’t pass laws telling wolves not to attack your sheep, you get sheep dogs…
In other news: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/stop-school-shootings-by-letting-teachers-fire-back-say-texas-officials/
-Ish
December 18th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Actually Hammeroids I think EVERYONE on here can agree that ANY GUN OWNER who leaves their weapons/ammo unlocked where violent mentally ill family members can use them, are morons of the highest caliber.
Also had said owner in this case not been one of the first victims, they likely would be charged with reckless endgangerment for failing to secure their firearms.
-Ish
December 18th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
No matter how lame and boring your blog is, if you’re gonna post bullpucky lies about “he said he had a .45 instead of a 9mm and he called magazines ‘clips’ so that proves he wasn’t a cav trooper” about whether a vet actually served… you’re gonna get a response.
And if you refuse to admit that you effed up, it’ll be a disdainful response.
You guys are soup sandwiches.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Well, I can see that the perv “dentist” and the Brainless one finally woke up and found their mommies’ computers while their mommies were at work. Welcome back, tools.
Mashtots: is that permission to post your address info? State that fact clearly if that’s the case.
But it looks to me like you’ve moved beyond mere idiotic ranting and are now inviting/inciting people to come to your home and do your family violence. I wonder if your local police department will construe that as threatening behavior on your part towards your own family? Perhaps I’ll just contact your local police department and discuss the matter with them instead, Spring-boy.
Braindead Hammer: geez, you really are one truly ignorant piece of work. Comparing one or two statistics concerning two countries – like population, crime rate, average temperature, size – isn’t a comprehensive comparison of two nations for similarity. The former is what others here have done: compared Mexico’s crime rate and gun laws to those of the US. NO ONE BUT YOU HAS EVEN TALKED ABOUT COMPARING THE TWO COUNTRIES ACROSS THE BOARD. Comprende? No, you probably don’t – you appear mentally incapable of comprehending that distinction. Sheesh, how do you walk around without a guide and without slobbering on youself?
Nik is correct, however. Some small, isolated areas in the US – some of the barrios in cities in the Southwest, for example – are far more like parts of Mexico than they are like Canada (or Astoria, Oregon, for that matter). Just like some parts of Canada (the Somali neighborhoods in Toronto) are more like Somalia than they are the rest of Canada.
If you had 3 or more working brain cells, you’d realize that. Ethnic neighborhoods in ANY country are generally similar to the “old country”. Even a fool like you should be able to understand that.
But it really doesn’t surprise me that you don’t. You’re really “special”.
As Nik observed, you’re good entertainment. Part of what makes you “special” is your ability to make an ass of yourself in public without even realizing you’re doing it.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
I’m not convinced that I was wrong about John Cole. Every frontline unit I served with during that period had 9mms and no one in the Army calls box magazines “clips” without doing countless pushups.
I know Cole served, I found someone who worked with him when he was in the Army and this person told me that Cole was the soup sandwich. In fact this person who served with him dropped some hints in this discussion.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
Isnala says, “Evil people will do evil things and no amount of gun control or “prevention laws” are really going to do anything to stop them. ”
If I didn’t have such a hardon for dumbasses who falsely call out veterans’ service records… I’d be more respectful of y’all. This is a difficult question.
The stats show that homicide rates have been falling throughout the 1st world. Gun ownership rates have been falling as well — in this country, in the UK, Canada, Australia, etc… the % of families with firearms has fallen almost continually for decades. But there could easily be other explanations. I’ve heard people theorize that easier access to abortion in most 1st countries has resulted in fewer unwanted children — thus in fewer unwanted children growing up in effed up households. I’m sure there’s other factors that could play a role.
Y’all haven’t offered any alternative explanations to the correlation between dropping rates of gun ownership and dropping rates of homicide (with all weapons) throughout the 1st World. You haven’t offered any explanation as to why our gun ownership rate is 300% to 500% of the rest of the 1st world and our overal homicide rate is too. Our gun homicide rate 800% of the rest of the 1st world’s. So that obviously means that at least some of the homicidal perps used other weapons in other countries.
But you soup sandwiches have yet to man up and accept responsibility for lying about a vet’s service record. You deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
@786
Banana ‘magazine’. Where have I heard that? Nowhere.
And keep screwing that pooch about Cole’s unit not having .45s. At that point, after the Wall fell, the Army already was looking at Europe-based Cav/Armor units as possible candidates for draw down.
Why don’t you just stop the agony and admit you were talking out of your ass?
December 18th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
When you admit that putting a piece of tape over a magazine isn’t gun control – the main thrust of his entire post.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Speaking of dishonest and intellectually lazy, right on cue. Is “Ben Hammer” your name, or just a screenname you made up because you think it sounds cool? Maybe like Michael Scott from “The Office” and his alter-ego “Agent Michael Scarn”.
First off, I don’t think it’s fine for gun owners to leave their weapons and ammunition accessible under the conditions you describe. That’s just you gassing up a giant strawman and lighting it on fire. The news reporting on this case, from conflicting descriptions of a second shooter to the false identification of an innocent family member as the murderer, has been absolutely atrocious and the real details of how said weapons were stored at the crime scene have not come out. If you know for absolute certain that those guns weren’t somehow locked up and secured, back up that claim. I suspect they weren’t, and if that’s right I wouldn’t have any heartburn about the mother’s legal or moral culpability. She paid for her shortcomings with her life, so there’s not much more to be done there.
Second, I took the time to read a little bit about the Seattle Cafe Racer murderer. There were at least two good opportunities to legally curtail his gun ownership after violent behavior that weren’t follwed through, not to mention the multitude of failures to address his mental health status. Why did the Seattle PD not send him for a mental health evaluation after having to send a K9 after him when he beat up his girlfriend? There are other charges (obstruction for one) that could have prompted such a move. Why didn’t the court order a mental health evaluation as a condition of his bail in that case? Why didn’t prosecutors get that ball rolling after having two of his cases referred to them for violent acts? They could have and they didn’t. At the very least, they could have taken administrative actions to put his permit under review (with a very strong chance of revocation) in the 4 years between his arrests and when he committed the Cafe Racer shootings. Legal tools don’t mean a damn thing if they aren’t used, and the answer to such cases isn’t to just give out more.
Maybe you should actually read and know something about other cases before you bemoan a total lack of legal avenues to deal with these people.
And maybe you should actually ask me what my positions are on the “status quo” before you run your funnel about what I think. I think some big “status quo” changes should come about, in the realm of mental health as a public health issue and the avenues available to address the problems of people who represent a danger of this kind to society. Targeting responsible and law-abiding people who don’t apply in this case is wasteful and wrong.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
In my post above, I should have referred to the first crime scene (the mother’s home), as there are at least two, with the second being the school.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
Then you’re pretty ignorant about firearms, Braindead Hammer.
The term “banana magazine” is sometimes used to describe a curved magazine for an automatic or semi-automatic weapon. It was on occasion used to refer informally to the old curved 30-round magazine for the M16:
Both growing up near a major Army installation during Vietnam and as a young soldier, I heard older soldiers/ex-soldiers refer to those particular curved M16 magazines as “banana magazines” for the M16 in order to to differentiate them from the straight-walled 20-round variant. The term wasn’t common, and fell out of favor in the 1970s. But the term was indeed used.
However, Braindead – had you done a quick Google search, you could have figured out yourself that the term was both legitimate and in use. I’m guessing you were just too lazy to do that.
By the way: I’m pretty sure we’re now into record territory at TAH for comments on a single article.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Banana magazine started with the fully auto m-1 carbine long magazine. In the 70′s it what the 30 round M-16 magazine was called due to its shape.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Jesus Christ, you are stupid. I’m not inviting anyone to do anything. I’m only pointing out that you armchair warriors don’t have the guts or the brains to do anything but sputter incoherently. Look, we all know I’m not a child molester. I know you know it, since you haven’t done anything about it, and, besides, there’s no reason to think I am, since you made that accusation up out of whole cloth.
And if you think that taunting a bunch of losers who think they’re Dirty Harry is somehow “inciting violence” against my own family, then you truly are an mental sea cucumber. But we all know that isn’t true, either. You’re just frustrated and irritated and you’re spouting bullshit to insult me. So have at it. It’s more pitiful than insulting, but if it’s the best you can do, I’ll try to spare your ego and play along like I’m offended thus:
Oh, how dare you, sir and/or madam! You cut me to the quick with your scurrilous slander that I’m a child molester! I now shan’t sleep for weeks, maybe months for the tears of impotent rage I shall shed from now until my dying day. Curse thee, O, thou forensic genius, thou champion of dialectics! I now slink off, in abject shame to wallow in my defeat at thy hands. Farewell, O, my victor, glory be to thee forevermore!
December 18th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Oh good. The entertainment is back. Must be time for the 12 o’clock show.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
I wasn’t aware that internet access was so prevalent in the mental instutitions that are still around.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Actually, we don’t. It was the screen name you decided to use. You could be a male, female, a 17 year old with no parental supervision, a 35 year old living in his mom’s basement or the head of a liberal blog for all we know.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
You’ve admitted you’ve lied before, Mashtots – about being a dentist for one. How do we know you’re not lying again now when you claim you’re NOT a pervert? After all – you’ve admitted lying before, right here in comments above.
And you might want to check comment 515 before claiming anyone has actually accused you of being a pervert. That comment observes that your screen name “Mashtots” could be interpreted as being an unconscious admission of such behavior, or of being a seller of drugs to children. However, it doesn’t actually accuse you of a damn thing. Neither does the later follow-up which spells it out for you – because you didn’t “get it” for a looooooong time.
For the record: I have no idea if you’re a pedophile or a drug pusher, have a family, or are male/female/gay/lez/bi (I do think you’ve proven yourself an idiot, however), and neither have I accused you of being a pervert or drug pusher. No one here has; we’ve merely discussed the possibility of your screen name being a “Freudian slip” admission.
But you’ve admitted yourself that you are a liar. So don’t expect me – or anyone else – here to take anything you say at face value.
December 18th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
Wow. By my last count (while typing this), the total responses is 789.
Jonn… that’s GOTTA be a record.
Well, I guess I’ll pile on too. Funny to see that Dr. Tater-tot is back.
…Looks like you folks have gotten “Been Hammered” pretty riled up in here.
December 18th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Annnd…800
December 18th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
The Republican leaders know very well that it’s easy to trick all the dumb gullible voters into voting for them by inciting them with hot-button issues like welfare, mexican immigration, gay marriage, abortion, and gun rights. Then once in office, it’s nothing but give-aways for corporations and insurance company scammers milking the middle-class dry and enslaving workers with the lowest possible wages while raking in billions and billions in profits. Wow are people dumb!!!
December 18th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Let’s see if this will link:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-attempts-to-open-fire-on-crowd-at-movie-theater-armed-off-duty-sheriffs-deputy-drops-him-with-one-bullet/
An armed citizen stopped a crazed gunman (although an off-duty cop but…right person, at the right time, with the right means)
December 18th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
@794 So in order to prove we are gun nuts who are violent; you are pissed because we have proven too calm to bait.
You are really courageous hiding behind a computer sweet pea… Again other than to laugh and point; you serve no other purpose here. No one is going to waste bullets, bats, gasoline or any manner of weaponry on you..
December 18th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
The Democrat leaders know very well that it’s easy to trick all the dumb gullible voters into voting for them by inciting them with hot-button issues like welfare, medicare, gay marriage, abortion, and class welfare. Then once in office, it’s nothing but give-aways for corporations and “green” company scammers milking the middle-class dry and bilking the unemployed by promising them jobs while raking in billions and billions in profits. Wow are people dumb!!!
December 18th, 2012 at 4:14 pm
@802
Funny JBS. I just got done reading that story on another site.
They’ll say it doesn’t count because the person was an off-duty cop. They’ll say it doesn’t count because it wasn’t a school. They’ll say it doesn’t count because it was a Monday night.
December 18th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Nick, beat me to it, I can’t type that fast.
December 18th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Nik: don’t forget free cell phones!
December 18th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
I posted the link because I remember Mashtots asking, “Were are you people” in these situations. Now he has an answer and a recent one to boot.
December 18th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Oh my God, how did I forget Obamaphones and mortgage payments?
December 18th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
Oh, I agree JBS, but reality doesn’t matter much to those types.
And now our entertainment has run off. Good help is so hard to find these days.
December 18th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
Since you want hard data Hammeroids I’ll point you in the direction of others (more verse in this area than I and who have spent way longer studying this topic:
A very interesting study on England and comparing it to the US, especially with regurads to guns and violance: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674016088
Here’s another study/book which uses careful statistical models and deploys a wealth of crime data showing that laws permitting the carrying of concealed weapons actually lead to a drop in crime in the jurisdictions that enact them:
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/M/bo6686900.html
While you specify homicide, these books look at all crimes.
Without real study one can take just about any stat to try to prove your point. Could the fall in homicide also be attributed to a fall in population? Could it also be attributed to the increase in medical technology and increased response time of first responders allowing people who are injured by a firearm to survive? The point is with out careful and well thought out study and analysis you won’t really know. Which is why knee jerk ‘we must ban all guns’ reactions is not the answer.
- Ish
December 18th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
Isnala: “Hammeroid” – love that! Do I have your permission to use that when dealing with the Brainless one? (smile)
December 18th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
CBS News: ‘Fast and Furious’ Gun Found At Site Where Mexican Beauty Queen Killed. Sen. Chuck Grassley, tells CBS News that the Justice Department did not notify Congress that a Fast and Furious firearm was found at the scene in Sinaloa. It makes you wonder who’s side the Justice Department is on.
December 18th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
For the sake of argument (800+ comments now), there’s been quite a bit of discussion in the media lately about the condition of mental health in this country. In fact, several of us have even alluded to that very issue in responses posted here.
Given that, perhaps some dialogue needs to come about regarding the relationship between mental health care, guns, and the criminal justice system as a whole. On side will argue for more laws and restrictions (which isn’t the answer, and proven it ISN’t the answer) and the other who will argue the 2d Amendment, NRA, responsible gun ownership, CCW and right to carry. In other words, criminal justice partnering with bolstered mental health-care in this country.
When will judges that sit on the bench start ordering psychiatric evaluations as a condition of bail or release? How much (more) training will LEO’s get when dealing with psychiatric related calls? (How much to they get already?) And, last but not least, considering emergency rooms across the country are inundated with psychiatric cases/screenings, how will that issue be addressed?
In short, it doesn’t seem like either side is getting anywhere in arguing a point, but it is interesting dialogue nonetheless.
…and mandatory sentencing guidelines for commission of an offense with a firearm doesn’t work either.
December 18th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
And some of us do not actually have a need for weapons that fire exploding rounds. We can simply use the middle finger to thwart criminals:
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Failed-Armed-Robbery-Attempt-Mocked-by-Gas-Station-Attendant-183968811.html
Hondo — From the way Mashtaters rattles on, I doubt seriously that he (?) actually has a wife and kids. There’s so much palpable hostility vented in what he (?) puts into writing, it’s extremely unattractive. However, since he(?) did, in a previous post above, invite us to locate him (?) and notify the local police, and it’s in print for everyone to see, and he (?) also admits to lying about his (?) persona, I see no harm in doing exactly what he (?) invited us to do. Do you?
After all, he’s done this twice now, last night and this afternoon.
(N.B.: I used (?) because he could also be a ‘she’.)
December 18th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Feel free Hondo I stole it from the Iron Man 2 movie. In the movie it was used to describe mindless robots attacking the main character. In this case its a mindless drone repeating talking points and throwing out smokescreens to cover the simple fact that bad people do bad things and gun control will NOT prevent it. (ref my earlier book links) SO it was just too good a quote not to use.
-Ish
December 18th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
@814 the problem is having a rational discussion about any of this isn’t actually possible when one side is clearly dishonest about their motivation. They want a full repeal of the 2nd amendment as Hondo has pointed out in several of his comments, but they want to couch it in terms of being “reasonable” as in, what reasonable person needs a 30 round magazine and a dangerous looking military style black semi automatic.
That same silly logic can be applied to many things, what reasonable person would choose an electric vehicle with a range of 38 miles costing more than a fossil fuel vehicle? Why do you need a 75″ TV? Why do you need a 3500 sq ft home? Why do you need lobster when chicken is available?
It’s not about need, it’s about being a citizen in a free republic. We have the right to own dangerous things, whether they are cars, weapons, or extreme sports gear.
The right to own a weapon was granted as the second most important right in the documents that founded our nation behind the right to speak our mind free from government oppression. So it’s clear the nation was founded by folks who recognized and armed populace is harder to oppress and subdue. The duty to be responsible while exercising these rights was left to us as citizens, while it’s clear that some are not capable of exercising these rights responsibly whether speech or weapons attempting to rewrite the bill of rights piecemeal should be halted at every step. State your case that you want the 2nd amendment repealed and find someone willing to back your play.
20 dead kids is a tragedy, but twice as many people are killed every day with little or no media coverage because they are killed singly and thus not very newsworthy. With a steadily declining murder rate in the absence of major gun bans it is worthwhile to review what has caused this miraculous reduction from 65 murders a day to 40 and move forward. An appropriate study with reasonable recommendations has the potential to advance a dialog on reducing crime further.
Histrionics solves nothing and advances no worthwhile purpose.
December 18th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
@817 – I’m with you, trust me – and I couldn’t have said it any better, but I believe your angst is directed in the wrong direction.
I value and appreciate the comments you, “Hondo”, “2-17 AirCav”, “ExPH-2″, “Nik”, “NHSparky”, “Jonn”, “Old Trooper” (et al) make here, which is why I keep coming back. I share your sentiments.
I’m a veteran (recently retired), a gun owner and I possess a CCW myself. (No, I’m not bragging…) It’s a worthwhile debate, I agree. Perhaps my suggestion was brought up the wrong way in an inappropriate forum considering it touches so close to home for us who share the same values. I just get SO tired of reading “the other side” drone on without using any logic and using the same ol’, tired, and emotionally charged responses with no basis of supporting their views other than links to WIKIPEDIA and the WASHINGTON POST.
With that, you’ll never hear me state my case that I want the 2nd amendment repealed, so there’s no need for me to find anyone to back my position. You’ve already made it, as have others here, and I agree with them. Heck, I’ve even chimed in on a few occasions.
There’s a lot of experience out there on the subject I proposed in my earlier comment, and I’m interested in what people have to say. I was merely suggesting turning the discussion towards a different direction.
December 18th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
Why is it that people are not looking at this logically? An AR or assult weapon is no different than a hunting rifle. They are both semi-automatic, and they both shoot bullets. In Fact, a lot of hunting rifles are way more powerful. The facts are clear… people own a lot of these AR “Styled” guns. They are black and scary looking so the crazys out there use one for their rampage. If they get rid of the AR style… the crazys will just use handguns or sawed off shotguns or pipe bombs or a hammer…. whatever they can get. Fact… gun control is STUPID! It is an emotional response to a terrible situation created by a terribly troubled individual. I wish someone out there would say it like it is. You can’t stop the guns… and if you pass laws – only the criminals will have the guns. No law is going to stop anyone who does not care for the laws from getting one. Don’t you think this latest whacka-loon would have just grabbed another handgun or two if the AR was not available? If you don’t see my points… I fear for all of us… because we live in a world where mass hysteria dictates rational thought. May God help us all!
December 18th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
This is a program that is being implemented in some school districts.
http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/students_fight_gunmen.html
December 18th, 2012 at 6:41 pm
I also wanted to bring this up, posted in #528 above:
I think it would be pretty cool to have a Tommy gun — Confused.
Yeah, this clearly demonstrates the complete ignorance of the gun-fearing population demographic. The Thompson submachine gun, which was popularized in movies like ‘Public Enemy Number One’ with Jimmy Cagney and used in WWII and subsequent military action, has not been used since 1976, when it was declared obsolete. It is now wanted only by collectors.
No one calls semi-automatic weapons Tommy guns. You only make yourself look as thick as a burnt biscuit when you post things like that. And I doubt seriously that real Tommy guns are affordable these days, because they are considered to be only collector’s items. Maybe if you have $130,000, you could buy one.
December 18th, 2012 at 6:41 pm
@819
“Why is it that people are not looking at this logically? An AR or assult weapon is no different than a hunting rifle.”
What? They’re not deaderer if you use an AR or an AK?
December 18th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
@822 – Why is it that defense training is not considered? That’s a logical approach, isn’t it?
http://the33tv.com/news/kdaf-harrold-teachers-carry-guns-in-school-story,0,5458419.story
This program at Harrold, TX was implemented in 2008. The terrified people in the anti-gun corner haven’t howled about it yet, but they probably will.
http://blog.pennlive.com/high-school-life/2008/08/texas_school_district_allows_t.html
Why is it that the logical approach — defensive measures — is not discussed by the anti-gun corner?
The one thing we learned in self-defense classes in the 1970s was never say “Please don’t hurt me”, because the only thing a criminal hears is “Please hurt me”.
December 18th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Why do you need lobster when chicken is available?
Because Unca Shuga is “spreading the wealth” and all ya gotta do is just swipe yo’ EBT!!!
I wish I was kidding. Oh, and in other joyous /sarc news, Obama has said he will sign an AWB renewal if DiFi can get it past the Senate. In between getting through her bodyguards, no doubt.
Remember proles, rules aren’t for rulers.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:29 pm
@790
Why would I care what some Chairborne Universal Expert named Powerpoint Ranger thinks of my screenname? Hey Chairborne, put the Twinkie down and stick to the topic.
All of you geniuses who googled up “banana magazine” — did any of you serve? Or were you all Correspondence Course Rangers like Powerpoint here and never actually handled any hardware? In my 9 years, I heard “banana magazine” maybe a dozen times. I heard “banana clip” thousands.
Well, y’all are famous on the internutz now. Famous for claiming that someone who doesn’t share your politics couldn’t be a soldier ’cause he called a magazine a ‘clip’, or cause he followed orders and put tape over the rounds in his ‘clip’ on guard duty during a deployment to Kuwait… or something else stupid. Your story keeps changing and I can’t keep up.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:36 pm
Well let’s put it this way, Ben–I heard of banana magazines, although we never used them.
And yes, I served. Got the shiny medals and trinkets and everything to prove it. Even got a little piece of paper with 214 on it that said, “Thanks for playing and have a nice day.”
December 18th, 2012 at 8:41 pm
Broken Hammeroid: internutz? Is that a term you use when describing yourself and your friends? Because it’s certainly apropos.
Get your story straight, dipstick. First you said above you’d never heard of a “banana magazine”. Now you say you have – as well as “banana clips”. Were you lying at first, or are you lying now?
And put the crack pipe down. That sh!t’s messing up what’s left of your mind. And there obviously already ain’t much left.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
Seriously, though, the saddest thing about this 800+ thread is that you’ve been asked over and over to offer some alternative explanation for the low homicide rate in 1st world countries with strict gun control.
And you came up empty every time.
To end this bloc of instruction, let me repeat what I told you I’d tell you and then told you, but evidently you didn’t hear, since you failed the skills test.
As the % of households with guns has fallen, the homicide rate has fallen, in the USA and throughout the 1st World. The homicide rates (all weapons) in countries with tighter controls on guns than ours, ranges from about 1/3rd to about 1/5th of ours. The gun homicide rate in those countries is usually 1/8th ours.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
Actually, Ben, Cole’s explanation as to why he used “clips” instead of magazines says more about you than him – he said he had to dumb down the technical language so you ignorant turds would understand. And since I was never a pogue, and all non-pogue units in the Army were using the M9 after 1985, you can’t expect me to know that pogues were still using .45s to guard the most dangerous place on the planet (Camp Doha) in 1991.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
@827
You’re right. First I said I’d never heard of a “banana magazine” and now I’ve said I have. But the only guys I heard call it a “banana magazine” were dweebs and wanna-bes, much like you guys, so they didn’t count.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
R-i-i-i-i-i-ght, Dumber than Hammers, now run along back to BJ’s place and get yours. He’s waiting.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
Hammeroid: we’ve given you an explanation: societal differences. The strictness of a locality’s gun control laws appears uncorrelated to the rate of firearms homicide in that locality.
Yes, correlation doesn’t necessarily prove causation. But absence of correlation effectively disproves any simple linear relationship – which is exactly what the anti-gun crowd claims when they say that stricter gun controls will end gun crime. That’s been proven to be BS six ways from Sunday – and you ignore the proof.
Yet you refuse to accept that fact, in spite of hard data and analysis backing that thesis. Sorry, but reality isn’t what you want it to be. Deal with it.
If you have the intellect, that is. I personally think you’re incapable of handling logical reasoning that contradicts your preconceived notions. That’s pathetic.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
Thanks for admitting you’re a liar, Hammeroid. We already knew that, but it’s good to hear it from the horse’s mouth.
Or in your case, the horse’s ass.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
@829
You’ve moved from claiming that John Cole wasn’t a soldier to claiming he was soldier but that he was a pogue and not a strack super-trooper like you.
That you effed up in calling out another soldier’s service and never admitted it is the only thing that matters here. Soup Sandwich, it’s not on your shirtfront, it IS your shirtfront.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:52 pm
“societal differences” — that’s pretty scientifical. A highly edjumacated posse of geniuses like you and the Chairborne Ranger can do better than that.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Here are some statistics by French Property dot com, an estate agency providing information for prospective property owners in Europe/France:
http://www.french-property.com/news/french_life/crime_rates_france_2011/
Here’s another one from All Safe Defense Systems that shows the crime rate to be higher in France than in the United States:
http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/International/FranceCrimeEscalates.htm
Another from France24, a news agency:
http://www.france24.com/en/20121113-france-rising-crime-rates-pile-pressure-government-french-manuel-valls-eric-ciotti
From NCPA, France passes US crime rate:
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=6727
Is that enough for you, asshole? I realize it means that you actually have to read the references and resources, but I’m not going to do it for you.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
This is from Scotland Yard. You may or may not have heard about them. I visited the place in 1976, right after they had moved into their new building.
England and Wales
Official crime statistics can be found on the Home Office website, in the Research Development and Statistics section. Download Crime in England and Wales 2010/11 as PDF documents from the Home Office website.
Scotland
Search the publications area of the Scottish Government’s website to find their latest crime statistics.
Northern Ireland
Visit the crime statistics page at the website of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) for the latest monhtly statistics and the yearly statistics.
Crimestoppers statistics
Read Crimestoppers’ latest statistics, updated monthly.
Nope. Not doing your reading for you.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
Seriously, hoss, isn’t it weird that all the other countries in the 1st World have the same societal difference, fewer guns and tighter gun control laws than us, and the same result — homicide rates 1/3rd to 1/5th of ours and gun homicide rates around 1/8th of ours?
What is this ‘societal difference’ that you’ve pulled out of your 4th point of contact that sets us apart from Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, Finland, Switzerland, etc… and puts us in the homicide neighborhood of Mexico?
December 18th, 2012 at 9:02 pm
Hmmm. I wonder if I know anyone who served in the 11th ACR in the early 1990s. If so, they’d probably remember when the 11th ACR changed over from M1911′s to M9s.
However, I’d guess that they had. The 11th ACR, like the 3rd ID, was based in Germany at the time. I’m guessing Germany changed over from M1911s to M9s over a relatively short period of time. NATO standardization and logistical simplification and all that.
The particular weapon is irrelevant, though – except to prove whether or not Cole lied more than once. Regardless of whether Cole is telling the truth about the weapon in question being a M1911, he is still being deceptive as hell. He’s trying to come off like Billy Badass by claiming he served in “one of the most dangerous regions of the world” when the fact is he served under conditions involving very little personal risk. Why? Because no one was shooting at him. That’s kinda likes folks in Kuwait or Qatar today who try to claim things there are “just as risky and bad as in Afghanistan” – e.g., it’s bullshit.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Ex-PH2
We’ve been discussing homicides, not crime.
But keep trying. I give your bouillabaisee of property theft, shoplifting and prostitution a 9.5 for it’s woody flavor and oak undertones.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:07 pm
Hondo: “Hmmm. I wonder if I know anyone who served in the 11th ACR in the early 1990s. If so, they’d probably remember when the 11th ACR changed over from M1911?s to M9s.
However, I’d guess that they had.”
Then go get ‘em, Tiger! But since you haven’t yet, that means you’re admitting you and the OP were pulling that BS out of your asses. HINT: next time you accuse a soldier of lying about his service, on the internutz for all the world to see, do your homework upfront instead of 839 replies into the thread.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:09 pm
@836 There is NO use arguing with a brick wall or a Ben Hammer. He uses other countries to support his position, but when we mention other countries- we are guilty of “comparing them to the United States.”
And apparently it is okay if you are victimized by burgalary, rape, assault etc. as long as you don’t legally own a firearm.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Go talk to a sociologist, Hammeroid. Describing the societal differences between countries/cultures is outside my area of expertise. But I can assure you I’m competent to analyze the data. And I provided you a link to both data and analysis supporting my assertion above. Look for it above – if you have the balls.
The analysis is sound; the absence of any direct connection between strictness of gun control and gun homicide rates is real. That’s been proven conclusively.
Why is that the case? I don’t know – and neither do you. If you want to know why reality is what it is, you’ll have to find someone else to give you that answer. I can’t tell you why reality is what it is. I can only tell what analyzing the data proves to be reality.
Science – and reality – is like that sometimes. You get results you can verify as true, but cannot immediately explain.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
No, Hammeroid. All that means is I hadn’t previously thought about trying to track down folks I haven’t talked to in maybe 25 or more years and seeing if they served in the 11th ACR. I served with a helluva lot of folks over 30+ years.
And in any case: it doesn’t matter. Cole is either a baldfaced liar and a fraud – or just a fraud. In practical terms there’s not a huge difference between the two.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:21 pm
@843
“Describing the societal differences between countries/cultures is outside my area of expertise.”
You’ve never let that stop you before. Go for it!
December 18th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
@842 – I finally figured that out, too. It isn’t about getting statistics, it’s only what jackhmmered wants it to be.
If it doesn’t suit his ‘meme’, it’s invalid. This is so he can’t be pushed off his ledge on the rock. So it doesn’t matter if the statistics include violent crime without a gun.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:25 pm
@844
“And in any case: it doesn’t matter. Cole is either a baldfaced liar and a fraud – or just a fraud.”
Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money. Let’s see those “folks I haven’t talked to in maybe 25 years”. Put up or shut up, you lying sack.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Hammer keeps going on about how we compare with “1st world countries” (which essentially means us and Canada, most of Europe, a couple of Gulf Emirates, Israel, Japan, the ROK, Singapore and Australia/New Zealand) with regard to gun ownership and homocide rates. There are a a number of problems with this comparison and the main one is that, although it is politically incorrect to say it, if you throw out the firearm related murders committed by young black American males our murder rates fall right back in line with those other countries. Lefties squeal with outrage when you point this out, but there it is.
FWIW-I wouldn’t deny young black males the right to keep and bear arms regardless of this fact. Given that a great deal of crime is black on black, they deserve the right to defend themselves just like anyone else.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Hammeroid: how about you refute the data and analysis I’ve provided first? Oh, wait – you can’t. First, because you aren’t capable of even following the logic; and second, because, well, you can’t. Numbers don’t lie.
Or how about you provide someone who can verify Cole served? Oh, wait – Jonn’s already said he’s been contacted by someone who served with Cole and verified that he indeed served with the 11th ACR. And who also says that Cole was a shitbird.
Lying sack? Don’t think so, amigo. Just remember: I’m not the one who’s already admitted publicly being a liar – that would be you. That’s not even a “nice try” at either an ad hominem attack or changing the subject.
I swear, the playbook you tools follow is just so damn predictable. First, you change the subject. Then, use appeals to emotion. Then use bogus sources/false arguments to try and provide a smokescreen. Then you quote out of context or intentionally misinterpret opposing arguments. You make stuff up out of whole cloth. And when all of that doesn’t work, you start acting tough and making ad hominem attacks.
It won’t work, dipstick. We’re on to you.
But if I can indeed find an acquaintance who in fact served with the 11th ACR, I’ll indeed tell everyone what he says.
Not that it matters much. Cole’s still a mendacious SOS who’s trying to impress people by implying he faced dangers he simply never did.
And you’re still a tool and an asshole.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
The few others rolled in, got smacked around, and left. Hammeroid keeps coming back. I guess he thinks his time spent here is worthwhile. Well, either that or he has deluded himself into thinking he has accomplished something. And as long as I’m here, I would like to remind everyone that John Cole is a horse’s ass. I wouldn’t advise you to visit his wet condom site, though, but that’s where you’ll learn just what a crazed mongrel he is. If you go, go on an empty stomach.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:45 pm
Posted this under one other topic:
Hey. I’ve been quiet for a while, but this is a battle we must all fight. We must keep our Second Ammendment right.
As I see it, there’s two things against us, both related to technology:
1) Perception. Since the 24 hour news and interwebs can report everything that happens, as it happens, people think this is “the worst ever” and “these things are getting worse/increasing.” The bed-wetting hand-wringers have limitless fuel to “do something.” The are active idiots who must be stopped.
Look up “Bath School Disaster.”
2)Safety in numbers. These people find kindred spirits on the internet. The minority rules by internet with one voice as loud as 1,000,000. In the past these opinions would have been silenced by society’s common sense. The minority now has an over-ride to common sense. 50 years ago their local society would have said “Shut the fuck up, you’re wrong.” and it would have ended.
One small group bands to another. They may disagree for different reasons, but they are bound together in the counter-culture. They mass into one big, noisy, stupid, panicky herd.
Just my analysis.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:47 pm
2-17 Air Cav: maybe Hammeroid is a masochist. That would explain why he keeps coming back to receive abuse.
Either that, or he’s as dumb as a doorknob and doesn’t realize how much of a horse’s ass he is making of himself.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Okay, nobunny. We get it. No need to multi-post the same comment in different threads. Really.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
I’m sorry. I do not post a lot, anywhere. Still need to be schooled on etiquette. I thought it was fitting. Won’t do it again.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
Oh, guys, jackoffhammers is nothing more than a semi-manipulative, lazy, lying (as Hondo reminds us) sack of shit who wants someone else to do everything for him, including sit on his face so he doesn’t have to do all that sweaty stuff himself.
I’ve worked with people like that. They dump their work off on other people and then take credit for it, until they’re found out. He’s such an amateur. They make him look lame.
Given all his (futile) attempts at manipulationg, he’s probably a lousy lay, like that shirtless jagoff I dated so long ago — remember? In fact, it could be him for all I know,except that one should have drunk himself to death by now, and this one comes off as a 15-year-old snotty boy who thinks he’s clever.
NOT.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
geez, I’ve been scrolling through these comments since getting home, and I only made it to #600. This is going to be a two day reading.
December 18th, 2012 at 11:25 pm
C’mon, we’re almost to 1K. Keep it up!
And “Hammer”? I’ve pointed out time and again as have several others that VIOLENT (not theft, not prostitution) crime rates in Europe, Canada, et al, are HIGHER than in the US.
So sorry, your preconceived notion of the US being a bunch of lawless cowboys compared to oh-so-genteel Eurotrash is, in a word, bullshit.
December 18th, 2012 at 11:26 pm
I guess I hit a little too close to the mark and hurt Bag O’ BenHammer’s feelings by asking about his screen name. I shouldn’t use that last one actually, since it’s probably an affront to useful hammers in tool boxes and on store shelves worldwide. I also like how he thinks I give a shit about him calling me a pogue and chairborne ranger (like I ever claimed to be otherwise).
You know how I got to be a “Universal Expert” (your words, not mine) on what we were talking about? I actually read about a case you apparently knew little to nothing about and found more to it than your throwaway blathering suggested. It probably also helps that I worked in law enforcement as a Deputy Sheriff for several years too, and saw quite a bit of the criminal justice system up close and personal.
But, keep on telling everyone else that they need to do their homework. It’s worth a few laughs to me.
December 18th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
@858 – PPR, it’s not about people doing THEIR homework. It’s about him manipulating them into doing HIS homework FOR HIM.
December 19th, 2012 at 1:12 am
Been Hammered should point out to you guys that JC’s service record has been completely validated beyond any reasonable doubt, because he posted a picture of himself, standing on a tank, surrounded by sand.
And for the safety of the photographer, the breechblock on the M256 was taped in place, which is how John knows you are all a bunch of pussies.
In fact, John knows a lot about pussies, as he continually posts about his incredibly creepy unrequited middle aged man love for an amazingly obese pussy named Tinch. Likely Tinch also has a taped breechblock, for safety, which is how John knows you are all a bunch of fetishists.
Cat King Cole is printing poster size signed editions of the tank photo for all the loyal Baffoon Juicers, and Tinch, to hang in their future rooms in the compound in Coletown, Guyana.
December 19th, 2012 at 6:20 am
Ah, yet another ignorant tool arrives with the verbal trots and nothing intelligent to say.How’s the weather in XXXXXXXXXXX these days, trotter?My apologies, jhtrotter – I originally misread the “JC” in your previous post as referring to a regular commenter with a similar screen name here and your post as a slam at that individual. PowerPoint Ranger brought the error to my attention – hence the deletion and this apology.
Again, my apologies.
December 19th, 2012 at 7:16 am
Hondo,
I’m quite confident he’s referring to Mr. Cole in 860, and not our own Mr. Lilyea.
December 19th, 2012 at 7:22 am
Yeah, PPR, that one gave me pause too. There’s a load of sarcasm in it and it makes it tough to follow. Most of us cynical SOBs know one another’s writing well enough to recognize the sarcasm but I’m not familiar with trotter.
December 19th, 2012 at 9:23 am
And another day of this shit begins. Do the trolls show up before or after their noontime “wake and bake”?
December 19th, 2012 at 9:41 am
PowerPoint Ranger: thanks for pointing out my error. I had interpreted the comment as being a slam at a regular with a screen name similar to – but not – “JC”. The original comment has been edited to reflect that fact as well as to include an apology.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:09 am
I thought we were going to go for 1000 posts in this column.
Loose the trolls!
Free the orcs!
Unleash the wargs!
Cry havoc and loose the idiots with a keyboard!
What time does the action start? I need to clean the catboxes and make some popcorn.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:14 am
PH2–like I said, I’m giving them until noon or so in their local time zones to complete their daily wake-and-bake rituals before show up with their, “I know you are, but what am I?” blathering.
Face it–they’ve shot their wads, they’ve run out of talking points, and they’ve been found wanting.
After this, all they’re doing is just scooting on the carpet and bitching about the mess.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:21 am
Sparky, what I noticed is that when Tatermasher was actually challenged with a trackdown, he disappeared. When jackhammered was challenged, he also disappeared.
They probably won’t be back. They’re lazy and self-serving, and if they can’t have their own way all the time, they don’t want to play.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:47 am
@850/855 – Perhaps Hammerhead keeps coming back because s/he realizes his/her argument cannot be validated, and is starting to be positively influenced to see things the way they really are.
What s/he fails to understand is that the rest of us refuse to drink the Kool-Aid, and will not give into the same anger s/he has, and follow him/her over to the dark side.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:49 am
I served in 4/2 ACR from 1988-1991; deployed to SWA in Early December 1990 for the big dance there. I left SWA 20 April 1991, a few days before the rest of the Squadron. Our Regiment had switched over to the M9 before I got there (I got to WGermany in July). While deployed to SWA I never saw a 1911.
I only ever saw 1 1911 during my time in Germany; it was Reforger ’88. He was with (I believe)an INF unit.
I went to Fulda a few times during my time there, and saw everyone with M9s; never a 1911.
Just sayin’.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:56 am
One more thing:
As both 2 ACR and 11 ACR were the forward deployed units of their respective Corps, they automatically were the first units in USAREUR to get the newer equipment/weapons systems (the improved Bradleys I know for a fact happened while we were in Saudi Arabia before Desert Shield started; as I was getting to my unit we were just turning in the Hueys for Blackhawks).
December 19th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
@838: “What is this ‘societal difference’ that you’ve pulled out of your 4th point of contact that sets us apart from Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, Finland, Switzerland, etc…”
Um, every household in Switzerland has a firearm. Every citizen is required to go to the range once a year to train with their firearm and the government provides the ammunition (they, also, supplied the firearm), so your comparison doesn’t apply to them. It, also, doesn’t apply to Norway, since one lunatic with weapons killed many more people than Lanza. It, also, doesn’t apply to Kennesaw Georgia, where every household is required to have a working firearm and ammunition, and they have the lowest crime rate in the US for cities with approx. the same amount of citizens. You keep comparing Europe to the US, only it’s not a proper comparison, since our founding documents were written at a time when there were monarchies in most of Europe ans we were throwing off the oppression of that system to create on where individual freedom is paramount and the government is supposed to be subservant to the people, which was a very radical thing. The thing is; you don’t have the right to tell me how I am to protect myself and my family. It is not your call, just as it’s not my right to tell you how to protect yourself. As soon as you understand that, the better off you will be. If you want to compare the US to Europe, well, in Europe you can be thrown in jail for words you speak. That’s right, for words you speak, you can be thrown in the jug. So, should we be like Europe in every respect, or should we continue to be the United States of America?
December 19th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
Hey Hondo, sorry to not be clear about who I was urinating on. I was just having a little fun and helping the post count.
December 19th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Let’s just say (then), that Cole and Hammered just don’t know the difference between a 1911A and a 9mm and call it a day.
Isn’t that where we started?
December 19th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
1000 posts? That would be cool.
Banning guns. Banning things. If I could ban something in this country, it would be bicycles. Get ‘em off the road. They don’t belong there. Keep them on bike paths. That’s what I would ban.
December 19th, 2012 at 6:02 pm
jhtrotter: you were clear enough, amigo; error was mine. Glad to see you’re not pissed at me. Please continue hosing down the trolls. (smile)
December 19th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
If I could ban something, it would be the Food Police and Joan Rivers.
Joan isn’t funny any more, she’s just obnoxious and addicted to plastic surgery.
The food police — well, we all know who THEY are and THEY should definitely be banned. If you find them, throw them into the nearest dumpster.
I would also ban guys who wear flipflops away from the house or take their shoes off at movies. I don’t enjoy being subjected to your godawful smelly feet. Especially the hairy feet.
I would certainly place a ban on bad grammar and even worse punctuation and far worse spelling.
December 19th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Some people call soda, pop instead of soda… Therefore I decree they are idiots. Is that pretty much your argument? That’s what you hang your hat on?
December 19th, 2012 at 10:10 pm
We all want to be this:
His platoon was pinned down by three machine guns. Although shot in the stomach, he ran forward and destroyed one emplacement with a hand grenade and another with his submachine gun. He was crawling toward the third when enemy fire nearly severed his right arm, leaving a grenade, in his words, “clenched in a fist that suddenly didn’t belong to me anymore.” He pried it loose, threw it with his left hand and destroyed the bunker. Stumbling forward, he silenced resistance with gun bursts before being hit in the leg and collapsing unconscious.
Very few are. Most find out too late that they are not.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
killer–sounds like our recently departed Senator Daniel Inoyue.
Badass personified, indeed.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
870-odd comments.
Perhaps by 900 we’ll have a comment addressing the photograph of John Cole on a tank in the desert he posted on his blog.
Then his lies about how the Army strictly regulates firearms will be fully refuted, ‘cos he wasn’t there man, buddies face down in the muck.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:57 pm
Yes, about Sen. Inouye, a real Medal of Honor recipient:
In 1943, Inouye volunteered for the Army and was assigned to the famed Japanese-American 442nd Regimental Combat Team, which earned the nickname “Go For Broke” and was one of the most decorated units of the war. Inouye rose to the rank of captain and earned the Distinguished Service Cross and Bronze Star. Many of the 22 veterans who received Medals of Honor in 2000 had been in the 442nd.
Unlike the families of many of his comrades in arms, Inouye’s wasn’t subjected to the trauma and indignity of being sent by the U.S. government during the war to internment camps for Japanese Americans.
“It was the ultimate of patriotism,” Inouye said at a 442nd reunion. “These men, who came from behind barbed wire internment camps where the Japanese-Americans were held, to volunteer to fight and give their lives. … We knew we were expendable.”
Inouye said he didn’t feel he had any choice but to go to war.
“I tried to put myself in the shoes of my neighbors who were not Japanese,” Inouye once said. “I felt that there was a need for us to demonstrate that we’re just as good as anybody else.
“The price was bloody and expensive, but I felt we succeeded,” he said.
Inouye’s dream of becoming a surgeon ended in the closing days of the war.
On April 21, 1945, he was leading a charge on a machine gun nest in Italy’s Po Valley. He was shot in the abdomen, but kept inching toward the machine gun and managed to throw two grenades before his right arm was shattered by a German grenade. Even then, he continued to direct his platoon.
“By his gallant, aggressive tactics and by his indomitable leadership, Second Lieutenant Inouye enabled his platoon to advance through formidable resistance,” his Medal of Honor citation said.
He spent the next 20 months in military hospitals. During his convalescence, Inouye met Bob Dole, the future majority leader of the Senate and 1996 Republican presidential candidate, who also was recovering from severe war injuries. The two later served together in the Senate for decades.
Despite his military service and honors, Inouye returned to an often-hostile America. On his way home from the war, he often recounted, he entered a San Francisco barbershop only to be told, “We don’t cut Jap hair.”
He took pride in handling even the smallest requests from his constituents.
He said he once was awakened at 2 a.m. by a telephone call from a Hawaii family asking for help in getting a soldier home for a family emergency. Inouye said he immediately called the Pentagon, and 30 minutes later the soldier had his orders to return home.
“That’s a special type of satisfaction that I can enjoy that none of you can,” he said. He was 88.
— taken from an article on MSN published 12/19/2012.
I’d rather read about Senator Inouye than Cole.
December 19th, 2012 at 11:06 pm
Probably wiser to read about Inouye’s distinguished record elsewhere. Here, it may not have happened.
December 19th, 2012 at 11:17 pm
Wow. Just, wow.
In the Sandy Hook tragedy, Here we had a whackjob, picking up unlocked weapons made available by a an alledged prepper mom, who took her whackjob spawn to the range and taught the SOB how to empty clips of cop-killer bullets into the most defenseless of people, and yet all you knuckeledraggers and slackjaws take shots at one blogger whose traffic and influence make your cesspool a laughable footnote, while ignoring the most recent raping and pillaging done against you as citizens of the United States (USDOJ vs. HSBC, and that’s for starters) where yet again no one is called to account for a bnk that for more than a decade engaged in currency transactions that enabled Mexican cartels and the Iranians to launder money that is directly being used against the citizens of the United States.
Ya know what you all are?
Clueless, un-self-aware, panty-wearing pussies who won’t DARE take back their government (mostly ‘cuz their chicken firstlty, and lack of who the real enemies are.) As Ross Perot said during his campaign: “It’s just that simple.”
Y’all talk a good game, but when it comes to walking the talk, Saudi Arabia, the Taleban and al Qaeda make y’all look like their women-veiled, subsurvient and beaten to a pulp if you get out of line.
Pussies. Every last one of you. You blew it in the 2012 elections, and you’re blowing it now. And there’s so much stupid here its a testamant that not everybody’s stupid at the same time that we have any form of a functioning government at the state level, let alone the federal.
December 19th, 2012 at 11:21 pm
Sen. Inouye’s record is long since verified.
December 19th, 2012 at 11:28 pm
I found this story. It’s too good to pass up in this debate about weapons.
http://traffic.outbrain.com/network/redir?key=e47b88162273860cf2a74ccd38e9a65d&rdid=435250091&type=YLD_d/RF_la&in-site=true&idx=2&req_id=22cbb7c1ee4740840174d1a0609243ca&agent=blog_JS_rec&recMode=4&reqType=1&wid=1&imgType=0&refPub=229&prs=true&scp=false&version=77699
December 20th, 2012 at 8:09 am
There is a responsibility to keep our schools secure, I call for an enactment as leadership has failed totally on the social front. The collective leadership has not been able to maintain control of society functioning right. Working on several days after the school horrors, there has not been a call for securing all schools nationwide with law enforcement personnel. Furthering a political agenda based on those very serious school issues, and not addressing the issue of keeping the schools safe is a failure. I call for this to be made grounds for disciplinary actions against the failing collective leadership and for ways to be changed to keep our nation secure! If you fail at your job you get fired, if our political friends fail aint shit happens. We need to change this equation since no discipline gets no results!
December 20th, 2012 at 10:48 am
I think most of us are just using our guns to compensate for our shortcomings. Really.
December 20th, 2012 at 10:58 am
It’s kind of amusing how these idiots come here and insult us as if we could possibly care less what they’ve got to say.
Let me help you random trolls out.
That sound you hear? That is the sound of us profoundly not giving a shit what you say.
You’re not important to us. We don’t know who you are. Why on earth would we place any importance on whatever drivel you choose to spew forth? At best, you’re entertainment. At worse, boring. And most of your commentary is boring.
December 20th, 2012 at 10:59 am
C&G? GDIAF. I pretty much stopped reading at “cop-killer bullets”, not that I could stomach much of your blather before that point.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:00 am
Nik–to put it into terms they can understand:
Did you see those? Those are all the fucks I give!
December 20th, 2012 at 11:01 am
“I think most of us are just using our guns to compensate for our shortcomings. Really.”
Yeah, I agree. I am lousy at Math, so I bought a rifle.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:07 am
I don’t know if he is blaming the killer, his mother, the banks or the city/state/federal governments. Must be one of those who make deranged Paulians look normal.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:07 am
I’m still hearing BS claims from my libbie “friends” who talk with self-righteous certainty that he was wearing “bullet-proof vest” while conducting the shooting.
When I point out to them that it’s NOT a ballistic vest (and if he got it at Cabela’s, etc., it never will be) but rather a tac vest, I’m the one who’s the “gun nut”, etc., despite their knowledge of weapons of any kind are they’re scary and go “BANG” when used (not by them.)
IOW, facts matter not when pushing an agenda. Ethics and the law matter even less to them while doing same (See F&F.)
December 20th, 2012 at 11:08 am
Deranged Paulian–redundant.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:16 am
Colossus and Guardian is upset because this blog discussion string is “ignoring the most recent raping and pillaging done against us as citizens of the United States (USDOJ vs. HSBC)”…
Yeah, well – that’s because that’s not what’s being discussed here.
Try another blog.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:20 am
John Cole’s statements at the Wet Condom blog regarding many, many other issues pre-date his latest idiocy and well establish him as a pandering puke. His readership–all 7 of them, including his insignificant other–are simply to be discounted. But rather like a watching a drunken monkey circus, they are good for a few laughs.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:29 am
Geez, I really wish we would at least attract trolls who weren’t either (1) too lazy to read, (2) incapable of comprehending what they read, or (3) both.
It seems that “dirk” above is either really lazy or has issues with reading comprehension. He obviously missed comments 786 and 843 above, or didn’t understand them. Those comments clearly indicate that Cole’s service at Camp Doha AFTER the Persian Gulf War is not in question. Ergo, the picture of Cole standing on a tank in Kuwait is plausible – and irrelevant. It tells us nothing that hasn’t already been confirmed via other means.
What was – and what remains – in question is precisely what hazards and dangers Cole personally saw and faced. Cole claims to have served in a “dangerous” place, thus implying he faced substantial personal danger. However, he was in Kuwait well after the end of hostilities in Iraq. The 11th ACR deployed to Kuwait in Jun-Sep 1991.
I’m wondering just how dangerous Cole’s service could have been. By June 1991, there were no longer any shots being fired in anger in Kuwait, including along the Iraqi border. There hadn’t been for over 3 months.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:42 am
#872, Old Trooper, You can also be cited for giving someone the finger in Italy. Apparently it translates to saying “stick it up your ass” and implies homosexuality where there may be none. That falls under defamation of character. Which, ironically, is pretty gay.
Also, just trying to get this post to 1K.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:51 am
For all the Libs that screem that our gun laws would lead us back to the wild west I would like to add that both Deadwood and Dodge City both had complete gun bans back in the day. Well, in the case of Dodge City the gun ban was only for North of the Railroad tracks.
December 20th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
I’m only posting this to make it #900.
Happy Winter Solstice! Remember to put out holly to keep the frost giants away and burn the Yule log.
I have a lot of stuff to do. You guys have a nice, nice, winter day.
December 20th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
#897, Hondo, here’s a ‘No shit, there I was…’ on the dangers of Kuwait…. I was in Kuwait in ’02 and ’03 and did work in 2 or 3 man teams off base at times. We carried a Beretta in a backpack, but never once did we have a feeling that we’d need it. It was more of a hindrance than anything since the backpack actually made us stand out.
I spent more time getting open water certified and hanging out at Uncle Frosty’s than I did on anything else. They had a nice MWR spot too. However, I did get bit by a scorpion and spent three days in the hospital, so maybe he was thinking the wildlife was dangerous. Heh, just imagine if they had eagles there.
Yes, there have been incidents such as the attempted drive by on Falayka Island, the two contractors killed at a traffic light, and the Soldiers stopped by Kuwaiti Police and then shot by the policeman, but it’s still safer than DC.
December 20th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
@901
but it’s still safer than DC.
I’m aghast! DC had such strict gun laws. How could Kuwait have possibly been more dangerous? You mean….prohibition doesn’t work?
December 20th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
@900 Back atcha! Don’t forget the hot buttered rum!
December 20th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
PintoNag — Extra hay, apples and carrots for the horses, plus a half cup of beer, and a couple of ears of corn for the squirrels!
December 20th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Is the beer for the horses or the squirrels?
December 20th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
@905 For the squirrels….they are far more entertaining after drinking than a horse is….up here in Westfield Mass where Ranger Burrell is we have the ordinary grey squirrels, but we also have the far more interesting black squirrels….when I first moved up here it was pretty weird to see them racing through the tree branches….they are fearless and will come right up to you looking for food….of course my wife never fails to oblige the little rodents…
December 20th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
For the horses, too. They liked warm, hard apple cider and Guinness. The squirrels like snitching it, too, along with the tomatoes they steal.
December 20th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
I’ve only seen one drunk horse in my life, VOV, and he was a pitiful spectacle. I know the black squirrels you’re talking about and you’re right…they’re fearless, and can be aggressive. They’re handsome little buggers, though.
December 20th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Irish horses PH? The German breeds prefer a different brand…
Pinto–my wife has done her part to carefully increase the population of black squirrels on our property by supplementing their winter diet with fruit and nuts….she opens the blinds to the sliding door to our patio and the cats enjoy a full day of watching the squirrels chase each other off the nuts and fruit….
I am on the fence about the squirrels, but they seem to have done no harm thus far…
December 20th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
@896 2-17 Air Cav: “His readership–all 7 of them, including his insignificant other–are simply to be discounted.”
Curious that several of you locals continue to make references the allegedly small readership at Balloon-Juice. For those of you who seem to have missed it, Bethany @162 was kind enough to post the relative traffic on this site, thisainthell, compared to Cole’s Balloon-Juice. Those links show that this site attracts 29% as many visitors as Cole’s place. Stated another way, Balloon-Juice generates over 3 times the traffic that this site does (3.43 times, to be exact). And as Boo-hoo was kind enough to point out @163, there are 207,978 websites that are more widely seen than this one, relative to Cole’s place, which of course means that Balloon-juice would have to fall 207,978 places in web traffic rankings in order to become, as Boo-hoo so aptly phrased it, as “dusty and ignored” as this place.
So you guys can debate the relative merits of keeping semi-automatic weapons available or not (they soon won’t be, so get ‘em while you can), or whether having weapons in your home keeps you and your children safer or more imperiled (the statistics are irrefutable, but hopefully you locals know how to properly store and handle your weapons and thus can defy the odds. Good luck with that.), and you can even attempt to disparage a veteran’s service based on uninformed speculation (though you probably realize too late how small it makes you look); but to try and score points by asserting from way-down-here that Ballon-juice is some internet backwater just makes you look goofy – like Monty Python’s Black Knight.
That is all. Carry on and thank Balloon Juice when you see a spike in your rankings next month.
December 20th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
“Squirrels”? Don’t you mean “arboreal rats”?
December 20th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
Anonymous (910): keep on dreaming, amigo. Keep on dreaming.
And yes: the statistics are irrefutable. The rate of violent crime tends to be higher in places with stricter gun control laws. The UK has a violent crime rate roughly 5x that of the USA.
December 20th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
Can someone summarize in a line or two whatAnonymous said in 910? It’s far too much for me to read. I only made it my own quoted line.
December 20th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
He said Baffoon Juice is huge and awesome, this place is tiny and sucks, so John Cole wins and gets to dictate firearms policy and repeal the 2nd amendment.
And you should stop being mean to Cole because he once walked a combat zone fence line armed with a roll of tape.
December 20th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
@914. Thanks, jht. Much appreciated. Economy of word is rare among libs.
December 20th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
jhtrotter: pretty much on-target. The one pertinent fact Anonymous left out is that Cole walked that fence line 3+ months after hostilities had ended, when no shots were being fired.
I still want to know what Cole did in Kuwait that was so damn dangerous, and what personal danger he faced. When I was there briefly in 2007 and 2008, the most dangerous thing about Kuwait was the trip to/from the APOE/APOD (the Kuwaiti drivers were full-blown batshit crazy). And it sounds like that was the case in 2002/2003, too.
December 20th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
@915
Well, they’re not known for conserving anything…words, money, lies… If they were the types to conserve that kind of thing, they’d be…conservatives.
December 20th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
VOV and PintoNag, Shires like Guinness. I had a show jumper that liked Schlitz. He also liked lemon drops. And I also had a working hunter who liked just a sip of brandy when the stirrup cup was served pre-hunt.
December 20th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
I’m not allowed to be a liberal, I have a disqualifying condition. I own guns.
December 20th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
#903, Nik, it’s safer because they wear PT belts.
December 20th, 2012 at 6:42 pm
@919 My brand of horse lunacy was Saddlebreds, and they’re a bit nutters, to start with; alcohol for them was out of the question. We did have one that liked gummy bears…
December 20th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
@911 – That proves nothing to me, other than the fact that what your cited just tells me there are more idiots out there reading the nonsense the likes of Busted Balloon or whatever the hell you call it.
If your liberal blogs are so much fun, stay over there. All the trolls take up Jonn’s bandwidth and the grown ups here can’t carry on logical discussions without being interrupted.
Now go away.
December 20th, 2012 at 7:29 pm
@922 – I’ve worked with gaited horses, too. I think it’s the trainers that made them that way — that, and some inbreeding. But the craziest horse I ever had was also the best jumper. She liked cross country gallops over fences; when the hounds were let out of the kennel truck, she snorted with anticipation. She did love her sip of brandy at the stirrup cup, and she could measure the height of a fence from a half mile away. Completely reliable in the field and in the ring, but if I was just out riding with friends, she’d wait until I was just one teensy bit relaxed and then hop sideways and leave me on the ground, running off with her nose and tail in the air. She did it once too often. I shouted “I’m not chasing you any more, you idiot. I’m going back to the barn. Go chase yourself,” and started walking back to the barn. She followed me, so I got remounted, but not before saying “You gonna behave now?” and she snorted right in my face. And you know what that meant: not on your dingdong.
December 21st, 2012 at 10:33 pm
I thought we were going for 1,000 posts here. We’re only up to 925. Come on, people, get with the program!
December 31st, 2012 at 10:10 am
They tried that stunt with us in Somolia too. LAV-25s escorting the first food convoy into Bardera (B Co, 3D LAR). Order came down for us to NOT cycle the ghost round in the 25mm chain cannon. Now, these were pre-positioned vehicles, not our own. So we had no way of knowing if the 25mm’s even worked (and the doofuses wouldn’t even let us test fire them). But not letting us even cycle the ghost round meant we would have been “surprised” by feed jams.
The funny part? Without conversation (all night in transit) every single gunner in the platoon decided on his own to disobey orders and upload his 25mm.
These same doofuses wouldn’t let us clear a tower that could have been a perfect enemy sniper pos. Oh, they also only let us inspect vehicles for weapon on certain days, and only after giving 24 hour notice to the town elders. I really hate ROEs most days.
January 31st, 2013 at 3:02 am
man in my past 9 years as an 11B and 3 deployments I can count a few blue falcons that needed tape on their magazines too, lolol, but of course these types of guys were found on super FOBs and most certainly were the type of dicks to call a magazine a clip…if I heard another Infantry soldier yell for a clip in a firefight I’d probably get shot in the mouth standing there thinking about him fumbling with that stupid speed loader with stripper clips scattered all around his feet and probably all his mag pouches stuffed to the max with lickys and chewies. P.S. Fuck paying 1.00 a round for 5.56 time to start volunteering to OIC some ranges!!
February 21st, 2013 at 3:49 pm
Im against any gun control but you sound like an idiot. Wanna-be know-it-all guy criticizing people over gun lingo because they said ammo clip? Oh you know the correct terminolgy, oooooo youre so special. If thats all you can argue then you shouldnt be arguing shit. We have ebough fuck-tards on this planet as it it.
February 21st, 2013 at 4:10 pm
Yeah, like people who can’t spell “enough”. You dyslexic fuck.
February 21st, 2013 at 4:10 pm
@928. Your prose reminds me of Hemingway. You may have heard of him. Helluva writer. But I’m referring to Leopold, not Ernest. Like you, Leo couldn’t write well but, unlike you, he did not make the mistake of broadcasting it worldwide.
February 21st, 2013 at 4:22 pm
@929. I wonder how jerkweed would react to someone in his line of work (beautician) calling a hairclip a hair magazine or referring to Time and Newsweek as clips.
February 21st, 2013 at 4:40 pm
I’m guessing he’d throw an effeminate temper tantrum. All I’m saying is if this dickbag wants to show up here acting like a know-it-all, im-smarter-than-everyone-here Ms smarty pants, at least use spellcheck.
March 1st, 2013 at 7:45 pm
SHENANIGANS! I was with 3/64 armor from 87-89 I remeber when we turned in the m1911′s along with the m16a1′s to get the m16a2′s wich had triround burst not full auto. by 1988 no one in germany had an m1911 as at the time we were classified as a2 for supply and equipment we got everything first. From mid 89 to the end of 91 I was with 2/3 acr out of ft. bliss tx. and was sent to saudi as part of shield/storm and at no time did we EVER place tape on our magazines. been to Hohenfels played with simnet and had to stay after my unit left to be part of the great army of danubia, been to graf and ran table 8, spent many cold night out at “wild chicken” and like a few other’s here I was in certian fury. and remeber the soviet helicopters flying over to monitor what we did. so go ahead tell me I don’t know what I am talking about.
March 14th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
screw gunn control leave innocent gun owners alone you fuck faces
March 14th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
leave innocent gun owner alone fuckers