Code Pink disrupts NRA statement
We’ve been listening all week from the Left that the NRA is cowardly because they’ve been silent since the shootings last Friday. So the NRA makes a statement today. And a Code Pink loser disrupts the statement by holding up a sign in front of Wayne LaPierre which states that “NRA Kills”. here’s a screen shot of the little douche getting hauled off;
Suppose the NRA disrupted Joe Bite-Me’s press conference yesterday while he was discussing the impending assault weapons ban with morons like former DC Police Chief Ramsey. What would be said today. While I’m writing this, there’s another disruption at the press conference by another Code Pink dingus. (Reports are that it was Susie Benjamin, but I missed it because I was writing this)
The NRA has 8 million members who vote. It’s not just Wayne LaPierre – eight million of us. Wayne just happens to speak for us. Code Pink shoudl be outside my house protesting – I’ve been a member since 1977 before anyone tried to take my guns from me. Me and eight million other Americans are your real enemy, Code Pink.
LaPierre’s money quote – “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”
ADDED: I wonder if the Secret Service leave their guns in their office when they escort the President to a “gun free zone” school. They should if “gun free zones” are as safe as we’re told.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Be a victim, government will take care of you. Really! We promise! Look how well we did during the Rodney King riots, Katrina, Sandy, etc. You can trust us! Turn in your guns and sleep well. Code Pink will be there helping you.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:30 pm
@1. What you said reminds me of the 60s bumper sticker: “Next time you need help, call a hippie.”
Code Pink’s little show is perfect. On the one hand you have the deliberate, steady, and rational NRA statements. On the other, you have the screechy, emtional, irrational Code Pinky. Pewrfect.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:42 pm
I think Code Pink disrupted the opening of a Vegan Deli the other day…it wasn’t vegan enough…
December 21st, 2012 at 12:43 pm
They had two individuals interrupt Wayne’s speech. He remained calm and collective the whole time. He hit a foul with me when he went directly towards entertainment, but brought it back together when he linked it all up that the media praises that but demonizes law abiding, gun owning citizens.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:46 pm
How is it I have not seen ONE mention of arming pilots, and the hubbub that surrounded that, as an example of what we can do RIGHT?
After 9/11, we had the huge debate on arming pilots. Today, no one has mentioned that on either side of argument. And its a pertinent example of how this works…
Has anyone taken an armed cockpit lately?
Also, no one has mentioned that many many schools in CA and NY and IL all have armed guards and METAL DETECTORS to even get into the school- and that is just to prevent GANG violence. So what is the big deal now??????
December 21st, 2012 at 12:47 pm
That is what real leadership looks like.
With real emotional engagement.
Called out the press, holywood, game mfgrs and the Pres.
The budget slashing is going to leave a mark.
Let’s see what the media does.
Looked like a room full of basic trainees on pickup day.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:48 pm
Piers Morgan should invite the Code Pink douche to appear on his show for a calm, measured, rational debate.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:50 pm
BTW-since 9/11 was mentioned above, let’s see how long we see images from Newtown as opposed to how quickly the “disturbing” images from 9/11 disappeared from the news.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:53 pm
I saw some of Mr.La Pierre’s speech and thought he handled the protesters well. As soon as he started attacking violent video games however, I tuned out.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:54 pm
@#8, Journalism “truths”. If it bleeds, it leads, if it smells it sells and never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Don’t forget, they have advertising to sell and an agenda to push.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Mr. Lilyea, I’m with you. code stink should be in front of my house. I’m the awful, lowlife, knuckle dragging scum that has the audacity to own FOUR, count ‘em, FOUR (4) firearms!?! my .308, a 12 gauge, a .38 and my beloved Colt 1911 A1! I’ve even had the nerve to have it in my hand while confronting a ‘crackhead’ trying to take my BBQ grill from my patio. Screw code stink with a barrel cactus in the a$$ with no KY!
December 21st, 2012 at 1:01 pm
@5 – You’d be surprised how many commercial pilots already carry guns, though if you were to ask for #’s, that would be an “industry secret”. Pilots w/ guns, coupled with reinforced cockpit doors, are just a few mechanisms in place to increase security. I’m sure there are probably more incidents that occur on aircraft than what the media reports about, but the media doesn’t report that – lest they cause a “panic” and ruin our impression that it’s a safe way to travel.
Pilots are safe, but what about passengers? One passenger can cause a lot of trouble. In the case of Richard Reid, (or the Underwear Bomber), I speculate that had he been successful in lighting his shoe and it went off, the plane itself could have been so compromised as to cause a catastrophic failure, and no reinforced door would have done the pilots much good.
December 21st, 2012 at 1:13 pm
Good for the protestor. I am a member of the NRA that believes in gun control. Airline travel would be safer if pilots napped, not carried guns.
December 21st, 2012 at 1:16 pm
“I am a member of the NRA that believes in gun control”
Really? Me too. Sight picture, controlled breathing, trigger squeeze=gun control.
December 21st, 2012 at 1:17 pm
There’s a news report about exploding glass bakeware, so I took a look at it. Not a joke, either. You guys should read it.
Glass bakeware is no longer made with borosilicate, which made it extremely strong. It is now made with sodium silicate, and not tempered the same as it used to be. If it’s heated in the oven without a liquid in it, it can shatter. If it’s taken out of the oven and put on a cold surface, it can explode and throw shards of glass as far as four feet in every direction.
I’m not going to throw out my Pyrex bakeware, but if I have to use it as a weapon, I’ll make sure that the CP people are in close vicinty when I do.
But the looneytunes like Reid and the Shorts Bomber are reasons that I hate to fly any more.
I think it’s a good idea to have a dialogue about these issues. Everyone deserves a chance to be heard. But these people don’t want a dialogue, because that means more than one person speaking. They want only a monologue, and only from themselves.
Doesn’t that sound like Insipid?
December 21st, 2012 at 1:17 pm
@14 I have a shirt that says that. I get the weirdest looks when I wear it to the gym, on base no less.
December 21st, 2012 at 1:24 pm
16-this one? http://www.studiotees.com/product_info.php?products_id=2466
December 21st, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Wayne LaPierre is asking the federal government for help in preventing future massacres of children.
But none of you preppers would be willing to pay for it with taxes.
Outstanding.
December 21st, 2012 at 1:54 pm
@18.. what the f are you even talking about?
December 21st, 2012 at 1:58 pm
@15 I have some of my mom’s pyrex, and it’s the old stuff. I won’t buy the new pyrex. While I didn’t know what was different, it’s lighter in weight and clearer…it has that greenish, coke bottle tinge to it that the old stuff doesn’t have.
I didn’t see the news conference, I’ve only read the media reports, but I left the NRA as a member after Heston did. I don’t like LaPierre and I don’t like the current “attitude” of the NRA. Their public relations attempts after situations like Sandy Hook are atrocious, bordering on assinine. Whether we like it or not, right now every gun owner in this country has a finger pointed at them. What happens as a result of last Friday will be decided by our actions in dealing with that finger. The NRA hasn’t done us any favors today, with their “cops in every school” nonsense.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:05 pm
18 – I just read the transcripts of his speach. He stated that the NRA would foot the bill, too bad they are not a Government branch, Not the federal Gubmint. As of today, I am a NRA member, again!
14 – Perfect description of gun control!
December 21st, 2012 at 2:07 pm
@18 oh I would pay for it with my taxes if, and this is such a big if, the government could say that for infinity plus a Mayan calendar that said tax was only going to pay for the arming, training and supplying of guards to schools. Instead I know exactly how the real world lives and how corrupt our government does things with regards to tax money. See SSI.
Oh and I am not a prepper as much as some one who enjoys the art and sport of target shooting.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:14 pm
I see the 3-sided asswipe is back.
My wish for you, 3SA, for your birthday and for New Year’s is that a flood comes along and takes your house with it. Or a tornado visits your neighborhood and you don’t have a safe room in your house.
If having a fully stocked pantry for winter and a generator on hand against the possibility of power outages from winter storms makes us anything at all, it’s people with a modicum of common sense.
But you gut-griping handwringers don’t see that until the storms roll in and wipe away everything you take for granted. May you wallow in your sewer backup, dorkish.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Typical. When a liberal calls for a “national discussion”, that mean conservatives need to sit down and shut up while liberals scream at us.
Oh, and Three Edged Sword, kindly show me the “Prevent Future Massacres of Children” box on my tax return and I will check it.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:41 pm
@#23. First of all, h/t to the definition of 3-Sided Asswipe. Your last paragraph left off one salient point. 3sa will be banging on the prepared neighbor’s door, demanding his “fair share” of whatever his neighbor put away for just that contingency. Hopefully, the neighbor is prepared for that.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:45 pm
The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. That could have been the whole speech. Jumping on video games I think was incorrect but the media double standard, hysteria, and flat out lies when discussing firearms was great to mention. I’ll be renewing my membership soon.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:49 pm
WHO PAYS? YOU GUN NUTS? PARENTS? PROPERY TAX PAYERS? SCHOOL AGE KIDS? TEACHERS?
Q: WHY NOT BAN GUNS THAT HAVE NO PURPOSE BEYOND HOMICIDE?
A: FEAR, INSECURITY, IGNORANCE.
GROW A PAIR GUYS. GUNS ARE NO SUBSTITUE FOR BALLS AND BRAINS.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:51 pm
@#27. Unlock the caps, it’s the equivalent of yelling. No one pays attention to whatever you might say if you yell. I’m sure the rest of the kids in the kindergarten already told you that.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:52 pm
@25 – If the neighbor has any sense, he’ll present 3SA with the business end of a .008 shotgun loaded with buckshot or rock salt, or a properly cooked pan of hot grits.
We didn’t get much snow in the storm last night. There is another due in a few days, coming out of the Pacific NW.
I’m vaguely curious to know what 3-sided asswipe does to prepare for a blizzard like the February 2011 storm. There were people who were literally trapped in their cars and did not make it through that storm, up here where I live. The snow came up to the windows on their cars and no one could get to them in time.
We may face more storms like that this time. The weather before the 2011 blizzard was a lot like this winter has been so far. And I’ve been through enough harsh winters to know that when the forecast is for bad weather, take it seriously, even if it doesn’t happen as predicted. Better safe than sorry.
Oh, yeah, can I get a “Survived the Apocalypse” T-shirt from Ranger Up?
December 21st, 2012 at 2:58 pm
27-I propose a tax on use of the CAPS key.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:00 pm
@27
Q: WHY BAN GUNS EVEN THOUGH 99.99% OF OWNERS WILL NEVER COMMIT A CRIME WITH THEM?
A: FEAR, INSECURITY, IGNORANCE.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:01 pm
So, that’s the new tactic that I’ve noticed lately, the little pants wetting crowd takes to calling us cowards for owning guns. But they’re the ones who are afraid of law-abiding citizens who own guns. Go tell Obama to have Secret Service turn in their guns and stop acting like a pussy. Go tell Diane Feinstein to turn in her concealed weapon permit. Yeah, we’re not like you people, we’re not ashamed of the choices we’ve made, so you can’t shame us into turning in our guns.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:32 pm
@ 31
Nik. You win the internet.
Best. Post. Ever.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:39 pm
“If the neighbor has any sense, he’ll present 3SA with the business end of a .008 shotgun loaded with buckshot or rock salt, or a properly cooked pan of hot grits”
Or throw an abnormaly large cat at them.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Why couldn’t Code StinkyPink stay in Pakistan? I’m certain the taliban commanders there decided NOT to keep them once they found out how fucking annoying they are.
December 21st, 2012 at 4:25 pm
#27: You lost me “GUN NUTS”.
December 21st, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Dear Code Pink and Those Who Would Ban Guns,
One summer I lived on Kentucky Lake while waiting tables. I got home late at night and had to drive on desolate roads. One night, a loser followed me home. From the time the neighbor pointed his semi-automatic “assault” rifle at the guy while I dialed 911 until the time the sherrif’s dept. showed was approximately 35 minutes. The sherrif’s dept. knew that both the neighbor and I had guns pointed at the loser and was getting there as fast as they could. In rural parts of what you might call “fly-over states,” that is just a fact of life. As to the question “who needs those kinds of guns, the kinds designed to kill people” – please understand that the answer is anyone who lives in rural America and has encountered a group of Meth heads.
S.
December 21st, 2012 at 4:36 pm
The grabbers have until Christmas, when people will stop paying attention to the news, to try and accomplish something. After the New Year this will be old news and all their momentum will be lost. They’re desperate…under the gun, er, so to speak.
December 21st, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Excellent post, Susan. The county I live in measures about 720 sq. miles, and there’s usually two deputies patrolling the entire county. There are two or three others who work only in the townships that pay extra for them. Except between 5pm and 9pm, because the country commissioners keep cutting the sheriff’s deparment budget. During that time, we might have a state police car on the road.
This county is overrun with meth, too. The heads steal anything that isn’t fastened down, we’ve had kidnap-murders here, by the meth heads.
December 21st, 2012 at 4:45 pm
Naw, y’see, all us “GUN NUTS” need is courage. We don’t need guns. Courage will stop an attacker in their tracks. Courage would keep an attacker at bay for 35 minutes until the Sheriff can arrive. Courage. Really.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:18 pm
100,000 armed guards, 100,000 more guns at schools. As the UK Telegraph stated so well, “Such is the contagion of madness”.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:19 pm
Twist, I think you’ve got a crush on my cat Mikey.
@40, is that Courage the Cowardly Dog? Courage would definitely stop an attacker in his tracks. Why, he’s stopped whales all by his little self. I’ve seen him do it.
You do understand that courage is something the timid ultra-liberals lack in spades, right?
They think eveyrone else should have it or does have it, but they only recognise it if someone points it out to them, like videos of firemen rescuing kids from a burning building, or those miners in Copiapo, Chile who survived 2++ months in the underground and kept their spirits up while they were down there.
Most of the time, they wouldn’t know courage if it walked up and smacked them on the behind. And oddly, they have little or none themselves.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:24 pm
@41- is it as mad as “gun free zones” that don’t really stop guns from getting in? As mad as an “assault weapons ban” that prevents me from bolting plastic, scary looking parts on my .22 rifle, but allows me to own a FN FS2000 and an AR15?
December 21st, 2012 at 5:28 pm
@42
No, I think that’s Courage the Rainbow-shitting Unicorn.
I do think it’s kind of cute how they call other people cowardly because they don’t want what the liberal agenda says is best. It’s kind of like a 3rd grader in a playground attempting to pressure someone to do something they know isn’t good for them.
“Jump from the top of the swing-set. I dare you. What’re you, chicken?”
It’s abundantly clear that gun owners have the courage to realize they’re responsible for their own safety, while the gun averse are afraid to take such responsibility.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Joe, I agree with you on this one. Someone on one of the blogs pointed out that Columbine had security on campus when that attack happened. I think that’s the wrong direction to go.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:35 pm
Offer’s still open, Joey-boy. Like the UK so much better than the US? Move there and renounce your US citizenship. I’ll send you some cash to help defray the cost of one way airfare – after you’ve provided proof of renouncing your US citizenship.
By the way: you do realize that Great Britain’s overall violent crime rate is over 4x that of the US, don’t you?
December 21st, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Hello Pinto. What La Pierre doesn’t recognize in his fanaticism is the most public schools, designed for ease of public access, have multiple, widely spaced entrances. Are we gonna put an armed guard at each one? Then we’re talking maybe 500,000 armed guards. Who was it that said, “When your in a hole, stop digging”. The NRA needs to stop digging.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Not going anywhere Hondo, save your breath. Love the Rockies and the American Southwest way too much, even enough to share the oxygen with a bunch of fringe characters like yourself. I’m gonna hang out and wait for you fanatics to get senile and die off.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:46 pm
@44 – Jump from the top of the swing set — yeah, I got that challenge, that and sliding down the big (12′ at top) steel playground slide, and I did both of those successfully. Also, the high board at the swimming pool. And I was the one who was afraid of heights, too. Hmm.
But the gun-fearers are okay with their kids playing video games loaded with violence, going to movies like – let me see, Iron Man, Batman, Transformers, etc. – loaded with violence.
I think I’m beginning to get it. Those minds have a switch that breaks the circuit when guns are the subject, but violence itself in media like movies and games is okay so the switch keeps the current flowing. Does that sound right?
I’m trying to remember when all this asinine dialog began and it was right around the time Dr. Spock published his first book, in which he admonished new parents to not hold their children too much, because they’d get ‘hooked’ on being held. And any peds psychologist tells you that is complete nonsense, that kids need to be held because if they aren’t, they wither emotionally.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:48 pm
@45- the security at Columbine got into a shootout with the shooters, delaying them until backup arrived, occupying the shooters while allowing kids to escape, and depriving them of ammunition that would’ve been spent shooting innocent kids.
I’d wager the casualty list would be a great number higher if they hadn’t had the security.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:51 pm
Joe. What does the UK Telegraph say about the 420 some chilruns that shot each other up in Chicago? I see the local gun ban there is working out real well for Chitown.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:55 pm
Suit yourself, Joe. Too bad, really; your departure would raise the aggregate average US IQ measurably.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:57 pm
teddy996: bingo.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm
Further, the Columbine shooters actually rather meticulously planned that assault. They first planted a bomb away from the school timed to go off shortly before their attack to distract first responders (it didn’t work as well as expected). They then planted crude propane bombs in the school cafeteria; their plans were to shoot fleeing students as they fled the school after the bombs had detonated in the cafeteria.
The propane bombs in the cafeteria didn’t go off. Only after they determined their bombs had malfunctioned did the Columbine shooters decide to enter the school and start shooting people inside.
The armed deputy on duty at Columbine normally ate lunch in the school cafeteria. However, that day he did not; he instead varied his routine and had lunch in his patrol car with a friend (an unarmed security guard working for the school district) in a different location on-campus. He was called to the scene after the attack started and exchanged fire with one of the shooters. Unfortunately, the police officer was not able to nail him from 60 yards away. However, this distraction cost the gunmen time, likely lessening the number of murders they were able to commit.
Bottom line: had the original Columbine murderers’ plans worked as designed, we’d be talking about possibly 200 or more dead, the vast majority from the propane bombs (they were timed to go off at what they thought was maximum cafeteria occupancy). Only the fact that the two perps were apparently not very good bomb makers prevented that. And the timely intervention of on-site armed security likely reduced the death toll even further.
A very good overall timeline of the Columbine massacre can be found here:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/NARRATIVE.Time.Line.htm
December 21st, 2012 at 5:59 pm
@50 I didn’t even know about the security at Columbine until today, and your information is welcome. I don’t remember reading any of that in the MSM, so it’s good to know.
Security is a deterent and, as your information indicates, protection in an actual attack; however, I lean toward more emphasis being put on preventing the rampages (increased mental health treatment and more legal teeth for commitment of the dangerously mentally ill).
December 21st, 2012 at 6:09 pm
Hmmm… I think Wayne did a very poor job of IDing his target audience (hint, it ain’t us) and went way off base.
As to the blissninnies who think no guns in schools, think again. When was the last time anybody killed a bunch of folks at a gunshow or police station? Problem at FT Hood was that the meat eaters were un-armed. As mentioned, if you are going to have victim concentration places, you need to have security in place.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:11 pm
@54- I agree, PN, that the mental health issue needs to be addressed. We can’t continue shoving meds down people’s throats and sending them on their way, and then be surprised when they don’t continue to take them, can’t afford to take them, or don’t refill their scripts because the voices tell them not to.
But the majority of these school shootings happen precisely because they know there will be no one to stop them on campus. When the cops show up, they kill themselves every time. What if the cops were there to begin with?
December 21st, 2012 at 6:14 pm
@55
When was the last time anybody killed a bunch of folks at a gunshow or police station?
Yah, I posed that question yesterday and gosh, none of these stalwart bastions of courage answered that.
Also I posted some significant statistics to show that the ban against those big, bad, scary assault rifles had no appreciable effect. Of course, they bravely ignored those facts as well.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:17 pm
William Shakespeare said “Brevity is the soul of wit”. In that spirit, I propose we show our love of wittiness and exercise some brevity. Let’s cut “Gun Free Zone” down by one-third as many words.
Let’s go with “Targets Ahead”.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Nik: how about “Soft Target” instead? Or maybe just “Unprotected”? Or “Vulnerable”?
December 21st, 2012 at 6:20 pm
@57, were you really expecting an answer to that question from those people?
December 21st, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Pinto Nag? MSM didn’t say a word about Columbine and how would you go about identifying and isolating those critters that need mental help before they shoot up your favorite eating and drinking hangout or a school? Are you familiar Warm Springs hospital by any chance?
December 21st, 2012 at 6:24 pm
PintoNag: the MSM doesn’t tell us lots of things. And when they do, it’s often best to do a bit of fact- and spin-checking. The original articles I saw selectively quoted the hell out of one of the sources I cited above. And as I recall, the did so without providing a source, so it was only luck that I found their primary source myself.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:28 pm
While we’re at it, why don’t we discuss why kids were taught how to use hunting rifles and shotguns by their parents, along with fishing equipment, so that they could go hunting and fishing with Dad or Grandpa? A five-year-old like me could get into a movie like “Battle At Apache Pass” for a nickel without my big 9 year old sister or my parents along.
And if it’s so completely wrong to teach kids the correct way to use equipment like that, then why is it okay for them to see movies in which extreme collateral damage is done to property, people are severely injured or killed, and there are no consequences to that? It isn’t just movies, it’s TV news reports, also, like the highway chases in California.
This is, sadly, a monstrous mixtures of messages being fed to children now, especially with parents who seem to have no clue on how to discipline their own children in a way that gives them respect for authority and teaches them manners, without beating the crap out of them. What I see in parenting now is that if you discuss discipline with them it always means hitting the kid, which is completely not true.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:29 pm
Mental illness is real and serious, but it seems to me that if we made “mental illness” a disqualifying factor in firearm ownership an encounter with the (government employee) Psychiatrist who conducted the screening would go something like this: Dr Freud-”do you want to own a gun?” Me-”Yes” Dr Freud-”I’m afraid you are mentally ill.”
December 21st, 2012 at 6:33 pm
Also, the Chicago Public School system is not planning a cutback in the number of uniformed officers IN the city schools:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/17077252-418/security-chief-vows-no-further-cuts-in-uniformed-cops-at-cps-high-schools.html
December 21st, 2012 at 6:33 pm
Joe: tell us – just what do you plan to do if you get stalked by a mountain lion while out rockclimbing one day? Since you’re OK with repealing the 2nd Amendment, obviously that means you’re OK with banning private gun ownership. So how do you propose to protect yourself and/or any loved ones who happen to be with you in that case?
Don’t laugh. The former (stalked by a mountain lion) actually happened to a former colleague of mine some years ago when he and his family were out in the mountains. He wasn’t armed, either.
He and his family were incredibly lucky – as I recall, the cat simply decided “not today”. But he was kinda disturbed by the incident.
Hands or a knife against a mountain lion ain’t good odds.
Now, replace “mountain lion” every place it occurs above with “knife-wielding methhead who’s high as a kite.” And answer the question a second time for that scenario.
This I gotta see.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:38 pm
@61 Warm Springs is Montana’s state mental hospital. I don’t work there, however.
I’d jack the bandwidth if I attempted to list the different areas in the mental health system that need addressing, and some of the myths of mental illness that cause problems. The system isn’t so much “broken” as it is more like a fishnet: the dots connect, but there are huge holes in between the connections. Those need to be made smaller.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:51 pm
@66 – That’s a very good point. It is, in fact, something you should consider.
How many people buy exotic animals, such as lions, tiger, cougars and other big cats as pets when they are cubs, find they can’t handle them as they grow up, and just dump them in the wild somewhere?
How about last year, when that private zoo owner in Ohio opened all the pen doors, let the animals loose and then killed himself?
December 21st, 2012 at 6:56 pm
@27 – Fecalnose? You are obviously a troll that wandered over here with Joe and Three Sides Blind.
If you would read the comments left here with a little logic and without the emotion, you might understand what’s really going on. Other folk’s opinions are just as important as yours are, so rise above your sense of superiority for a moment and try to extend the same courtesy.
If not, you’ll probably get the attention you don’t want, with the same disdain lots of folks here have for organizations like Code Pink.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:57 pm
@60
Naw. I knew they’d clearly be far too brave, too courageous to answer a question like that.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:59 pm
@59
Those are good. Or maybe just “get’em”.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:04 pm
@47 – Yes, Joe… schools (like most buildings) are known to have more than one door. There ARE doors that can be locked to prevent entry from the outside, but pushed open with a push bar from the outside. Schools can use some common sense and secure doors at certain times of the day and limit access elsewhere without compromising security (evacuation) should the need arise. Nobody is suggesting to put an armed guard at every egress point, but somehow I think you already knew that.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:05 pm
One last question, because the Cold Pinkies were on the news just now: Why is it that those Clod Poles sound like they’re all about six years old?
Not the words, the sounds of their voices — they sound like a bunch of squalling, whiny “I doan wannas”. They really do.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:14 pm
…and one final thought.
Large school districts (such as L.A.) have their own police force, and they’re scattered throughout the community to provide both a law enforcement and security role.
Most college campuses I know of (even community colleges) have a police department as well.
In my community, there are about 5 high schools, 3 jr. highs and 10 or 12 elementary schools. Most of the schools are in rural areas. It just makes sense to create a security agency within the school district where full-time security/law enforcement officers could be on campus. The high school and jr. highs each have a sherriff’s deputy (School Resource Officer), full time, always on campus. The federal gov’t could, perhaps, fund such an endeavor which would not only provide security at the schools full time but would also create a signficant number of jobs.
But, getting rid of guns just isn’t going to happen. Sorry to disappoint.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:27 pm
That armed guard thing worked perfectly at Columbine.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:29 pm
Whakos don’t release exotic pets in the woods out here, the cougars, wolves, and bears would eat them. We are being over run by cougars now that hunting them with hounds was outlawed a decade ago. In a real dumb move, wolves were reintroduced in this area and they are killing cows as well as deer. We had a big uproar when the local pack was thinned for livestock predation.
My neighbor down the hill lost three goats to a cougar in two days. I sure was glad that I had a shotgun when I had to chase a black bear off my side deck. He was tearing my bar-b-Q apart to get at the grease tray. All the courage in the world is useless against a bear that is not afraid of humans.
Or an armed goblin who is not even afraid of the police.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:29 pm
“…most public schools, designed for ease of public access, have multiple, widely spaced entrances…”
Yeah, it’s the fault of the Americans with Disabilities Act…I knew a Bush had something to do with the school shootings and why we can’t solve the problem.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:38 pm
@76 – ‘Or an armed goblin who is not even afraid of the police.’
LMAO!!
December 21st, 2012 at 7:53 pm
Locally here after the broadcast, the moonbats were out in full force on one of the local News Channels facebook page. One Barry Nolan, a one time local celebrity/TV personality and former staff member of the US Senate stated twice that the “NRA should be carpet bombed”… second time after numerous people chimed in how hypocritical it was of him to say something like that while blaming guns for violent behavior.
Peaceful lefties… believes if there were no guns, then nothing bad would have occurred.
December 21st, 2012 at 7:58 pm
The NRA will be making a list and checking it twice. The naughties get no money. The nicies will.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:19 pm
Hey Joe,
I’m still laughing at the idea that you’re waiting for someone else to go senile. The good thing for you, I suppose, is that you’ll never know and everyone else will just see you as the same ol’ Joe, since there isn’t much info in the hard drive to get garbled with advanced age.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:26 pm
What a bunch of whining paranoid douchebags. Yeah, Tarantino doesn’t make DJango all the kids at Sandy Hook are celebrating the weekend tonight. Immediate cessation of DVD sales, wall off Hollywood into a WWII style determent camp, burn down all the theaters. Problem solved. LISTEN YOU DEAF, DUMB AND BLIND MORONS! Nobody wants your f**king guns! Let me repeat that for those of you who’s lips are moving so fast you missed it…NOBODY, NO F**KING BODY WANTS YOUR GUNS. The Army, Navy, Marine Corp, Air Force, Coast Guard, National Guard, FEMA, the FBI AND the friggin CIA would take an estimated 12-15 YEARS to track down and seize the 300M+ guns in the country. Even if it WASN’T a stupid, morally incomprehensible, illegal and Anti-Constitutional thing to do, its F***KING IMPOSSIBLE. Enough with the bulls**t about taking your damn guns. This is about morons owning guns who don’t have a clue about how to secure the damn things. This is about sociopaths being able to walk up to a table at a gun show and buy an assault rifle with less trouble than they’d have taking out a $100K loan to buy a Ferrari. This is about criminals buying guns and selling them to other criminals because the greedy moron gun vendors don’t give a ratz azz about anything but turning ching. You stop mickey mouse access to any damn type of weapon any psychopath wants any time they want it and in 20 years the thing is back under control. You don’t need an assault rifle to hunt deer…if you do, you’re an idiot and sooner or later you’re going to killer a real sportsman or an innocent bystander spraying the woods with bullets because you are too lazy to learn how to shoot. You don’t need an assault rifle to protect your family and your home. You can’t take the time to learn to be proficient and accurate enough to defend yourself with a 12 round semi-automatic handgun? And you want to start spraying your living room with a full banana clip…while your wife and kids are sleeping on the next floor? NOBODY needs an assault rifle except an enlisted combat soldier…PERIOD. Freedom ain’t free…you paranoid morons are going to have to get it through your head that the days when you could decorate your den with dozen semi-automatic rifles is OVER. Get used to it and stop whining like a bunch of panzy ass school girls. The only reason you think you need those combat weapons is because you think it makes you look tough…and you know what they say about douchebags who need idiotic, expensive toys to look tough…they’re making up for other areas they come up real “short” in….yeah, that’s it ain’t it…douche.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:27 pm
1- Why have the federal government fund security forces for public schools when over all, the school administrations are the ones that will be held accountable for student safety.
2- I like the idea of Minutemen read it.
3- LT Col Grossman is or was the walking talking encyclopedia on active shooters and counter measures. Read it.
Joe might find it educational none the less….
December 21st, 2012 at 8:28 pm
OOPS LTC Grossman’s advice.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:36 pm
PorscheBOB- What are you? An idiot or a fucking idiot? Is that turtleneck your wearing, or is it your foreskin showing? When was the last time you rode your tricycle to a gun show, purchased a gun and rode off with it before the background check was ran on your fucking idiot ass?
December 21st, 2012 at 8:41 pm
If you’re capable of reading, Hall the Ignorant, read the links in comment 53.
The armed cop at Columbine was not in the school at the time the attackers struck. He was on lunch break, eating lunch in the parking lot in his police cruiser while talking to a friend.
Geez, you tools are so freaking ignorant it’s actually impressive.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:42 pm
Funny that a guy who calls himself PorscheBob is lecturing us about the relationship between penis size and things we buy.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:48 pm
One problem with that article streetsweeper – the reference to Giduck.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:51 pm
@82
LISTEN YOU DEAF, DUMB AND BLIND MORONS! Nobody wants your f**king guns! Let me repeat that for those of you who’s lips are moving so fast you missed it…NOBODY, NO F**KING BODY WANTS YOUR GUNS.
Hmm…ok. Go on…
Enough with the bulls**t about taking your damn guns.
Hmm…ok. Go on…
You don’t need an assault rifle to hunt deer
Hmm…nobody needs a Porsche either but….anyway, go on.
you paranoid morons are going to have to get it through your head that the days when you could decorate your den with dozen semi-automatic rifles is OVER
Wait a minute, you said it wasn’t about taking people’s weapons.
You are dismissed.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:52 pm
I love the irony of a man claiming to drive a overpriced phallic symbol with no more intrinsic utility than a Yugo lecturing gun owners on guns being an unnecessary item that only makes one “feel tough”.
Yeah – I’m talking about you, “PorscheBob”.
December 21st, 2012 at 8:52 pm
Yea, I know Susan. I don’t have editorial control over that one. *face palm*
December 21st, 2012 at 9:00 pm
I also love the superior intellect and logic shown by PorscheBob above where he tells a bunch of “deaf, dumb and blind morons” to “listen up”.
Yeah, I’m being sarcastic.
Do I need to explain the sarcasm to you, Porch-Boy?
December 21st, 2012 at 9:01 pm
Hondo, the school resource officer at Columbine had decided to wrap two things into one, he was eating lunch while monitoring “The Pit”, a place where the students went to smoke. IOW, he was sent to do something that should have been done by an assistant principal or a school attendance officer, or the unarmed security officer. That he got shots off at all is remarkable, considering where he was.
And, I gotta bet that the guy with the mid-life crisis in his s/n, Douchebob, in #82, has never bought a gun in his life, or gone to a gun show.
December 21st, 2012 at 9:15 pm
UpNorth: agreed, though the unarmed security officer was with him at the time; apparently they were friends.
From what I’ve read, the SRO normally ate lunch in the cafeteria and parked between the two parking lots at Columbine. That particular day he varied his normal routine.
December 21st, 2012 at 9:51 pm
I rarely do this but in the case of Porschebob…
[img]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17904800.jpg[/img]
December 21st, 2012 at 9:51 pm
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17904800.jpg
December 21st, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Yeah, that’s the reason that those two wastes of skin decided to start their rampage in the cafeteria, they thought the SRO would be there, he was supposed to be the first to die that day. Why would they target him, the liberals ask? Because he had a weapon.
December 21st, 2012 at 10:30 pm
@97 – And people say there’s no such thing as telepathy or insight or foresight. Why else would the SRO change his normal routine?
December 21st, 2012 at 11:46 pm
Why is that a minority of people, gun nuts, get to victimize the rest of us, the MAJORITY of people in the US?
It’s nothing less than insane for the NRA to respond to this atrocity by calling for MORE GUNS in the schools! My god, they are truly insane! and VERY DANGEROUS! We must silence them, and take away their guns….before they kill the rest of us.
December 21st, 2012 at 11:47 pm
“We must silence them, and take away their guns”
Telling… No respect for the bil of rights.
December 21st, 2012 at 11:55 pm
“We must silence them, and take away their guns…”
The totalitarian left rears its predictable head. The left cares about guns only tangentially to their main goal-what they really want is to ban opposition to their politics (notice how our new friend wants to “silence them” first). Making it impossible for individuals to defend themselves is only an intermediate step in the process of implementing their agenda of controlling all aspects of human behavior.
December 22nd, 2012 at 12:49 am
@100 & 101 – Get a grip, guys.
Satire (not very good satire) raises it’s fine-haired S.O.B.’s head.
December 22nd, 2012 at 1:06 am
@99, I can understand why guns in schools seem insane. I barely survived grammar school being terrorized by catholic nuns wielding wooden assault rulers. Can’t imagine the long term repercussions of the daily threat of getting mozambiqued by a H&K .40 armed deputized nun for planting my gum under the desk chair.
December 22nd, 2012 at 8:38 am
I don’t think comment 99 was satire, Ex-PH2.
How’s the weather out there near the People’s Republic of Berkeley these days, almazul? Is El Cerrito a part of the People’s Republic yet, or are you still just a “fellow traveler”? Or would that be “useful idiot”?
December 22nd, 2012 at 8:52 am
If you couldn’t tell, we got a link at Huffibbington Post.
December 22nd, 2012 at 9:15 am
PorscheBob SquarePants repeatedly says that no one wants our (add vulgarity here) guns. He then proceeds to tell us that we don’t need certain guns. So, what he is struggling to say is that no one wants ALL of our guns, just some of them. There are so many fails in his assertion that it is truly laughable. From income tax to gay rights and all points in between, we are always assured by the lefties, the government, or both, that we are the alarmists, that we are the ones projecting the ridiculous. But history tells us different.
December 22nd, 2012 at 9:27 am
Hondo, Jonn — thanks for the heads up. I think it was the punctuation that threw me off.
December 22nd, 2012 at 5:38 pm
2-17 Air Cav: of course Porch-Boy doesn’t want our “fornicating” guns. He only wants our firearms. Remember -
“This is my rifle
This is my gun
This one’s for shooting
The other’s for fun.”
December 22nd, 2012 at 8:11 pm
@#98. I said somewhere else, the SRO was out doing the job that the unarmed security guard, or the assistant principal or the attendance officer should have been doing, checking on smokers.
December 23rd, 2012 at 6:30 am
@42- Hondo- You got that from an extremely misleading report. The report 1. fails to take into account that England tabulates its crimes at per 100k and we do it per 1 million and 2. It fails to take into account the fact that England and the United States tabulates violent crimes differently.
The UK rate includes common assault — simple assault, no injuries, the lowest level of assault. The US rate does not.
The UK figures include “sexual offences”. The US figures include only “forcible rape”. 15% of the recorded crime figure for violent crimes the UK is “harassment”. The U.S. does not count that as violent crime.
This is why it is stupid and misleading to compare crime rates from one country to another since different countries count crimes in different ways. The only fair way to count this is to look at murder rates by gun violence. And I don’t think you really want to go there.
December 23rd, 2012 at 6:47 am
What puzzles me is that he didn’t just let Code pink take the stage. I’m not sure how much more disasterous it could of been then Lapieres presentation.
December 23rd, 2012 at 10:45 am
Once again, Sippy provides exact numbers without a verifiable source. Why no source, Sippy?
December 23rd, 2012 at 11:00 am
Okay, sippy–we’ll bite–when put into offenses per 100K, GB is still 4-5 times higher than the US. Now regardless of your parsing, while a 10-15 percent difference might give you some credence, a factor of 5? Nice try, but no.
December 23rd, 2012 at 12:20 pm
@112- Hondo, you didn’t give a source either when you stated that there were 4 times as many violent crimes in England. In fact you very rarely give sources unless if you’re doing a blog. Plus unless the source is redstate or breitbart you all dismiss it as “liberal media”.
December 23rd, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Hey, guys, guess what!?!?!
Looks like someone’s taking aim at Cold Pinkos:
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/23/16101856-after-reaction-to-its-defiant-stance-nra-prepares-for-2013-battles?lite
December 23rd, 2012 at 1:42 pm
Sippy: the source has been cited elsewhere on TAH. NHSparky cited it in a related discussion thread, and I think you even posted on that thread yourself. I assumed you’d seen it. It was from a UK newspaper.
Let me see if I can find it for you, since you’re obviously either unwilling or incompetent to do so for yourself. After all, it’s Christmas. Consider my doing so a Christmas present.
December 23rd, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Here ya go, Sippy. A link to the article is posted on multiple threads here, and you indeed have commented on at least one of those discussions yourself.
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=33232&cpage=4#comment-722034
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=33248#comment-722357
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=33257&cpage=17#comment-722509
I guess you must have “forgot” that one.
As your Christmas present, here’s the direct link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
The article gives the normalized rates (total violent crimes per 100k residents) for a number of countries. The rate for the UK: 2,034 per 100k residents. The rate for the US: 466 per 100k residents. Hell, even Canada’s rate is 2x that of the US: 932 violent crimes per 100k residents.
Merry Christmas, and you’re welcome.
December 23rd, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Mmmmm…. Epic fail. Your own article says precisely the same thing i told you:
=============================================================
But criminologists say crime figures can be affected by many factors, including different criminal justice systems and differences in how crime is reported and measured. In Britain, an affray ( English term, fight that disturbs the peace) is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured…..
But Police Minister David Hanson said: ‘These figures are misleading.
Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.
===========================================================
Furthermore, that study is the equivelent of one put out by the Koch brothers or, if you prefer the Brady Campaign or Organizing for America. It’s not exactly an unbiased source that wants acurate statistics. This was put out by the Tories to discredit labour to win an election, The BBC looked at this study and found it to be extremely misleading in that they “forgot” to mention that the government had changed its methods of reporting crime:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/feb/03/tories-violent-crime-statistics
=============================================================
But a BBC investigation found that the Conservatives omitted Home Office warnings that the figures for the periods before and after 2002 were not comparable because of a change in the way violent crime was recorded.
Instead of police officers deciding whether an incident should be recorded as a violent crime, the decision was given to the alleged victim, with the effect of forcing up recorded violence by an estimated 35% in the first year, according to the BBC.
The British Crime Survey suggested that people’s experience of violent crime has in fact fallen by around 50% since 1995.
=============================================================
(if you’re going to insist that i quote sources each and every time, you should at the very least tell me how to do quotes here.)
Anyway, don’t you have your hands full getting everything completely wrong about the United States? I don’t see why you feel the need to branch out.
Merry Christmas to you too.
December 24th, 2012 at 2:11 am
Sippy,the Bobbies were ordered to find ways to write the reports up so the reports did not read like violent crimes.
December 24th, 2012 at 2:38 am
@119- Joe Williams- one of the points made in the article is that they changed their record keeping so that it was the alleged victim who gets to decide on whether the crime is violent, not the “bobby”. That alone, according to the Guardian article increased the # of reported violent crimes by 35%.
I’m not sure why you would believe that the British necessarily falsify reports more than Americans.
December 24th, 2012 at 8:14 am
Sippy – boy, you really are working on earning your nickname “the Pinhead” today.
Epic fail? Hardly. And your response is so predictable – right out of the lib playbook, actually.
I provide hard data. Your response? Change the subject, coupled with asserting the data is false while providing no supporting evidence whatsoever that the data is even suspect, much less false.
Yes, the article says the statistics might not be comparable. However, it does not (1) detail how they might not be comparable, (2) demonstrate that they are in fact not comparable, or (3) attempt to do either of the above. In short, it makes an unsupported assertion about the data which it fails to substantiate in any way. You grabbed that unsupported assertion and ran with it. You like doing that when it suits your purposes.
Sorry fella – not gonna let you get away with that here. Put up or shut up. Find and cite some data to support your assertion – hard data. And post verifiable references.
Provide proof of how UK and US crime statistics are indeed calculated differently. Or admit you can’t and were wrong. Or just shut up about the matter. Or keep on arguing your nonsense without providing proof and making yourself look like more of a fool than it’s already been proven you are. Any of those is fine with me.
Further, some of the material you quote above to “prove” the statistics are “not comparable” refers to comparing current and past UK statistics – not those from foreign nations. That’s clear from the context of the quote you posted above. Next time, try to post a supporting quote that is applicable to the discussion at hand, please. The fact that the UK changed it’s reporting method 10 years ago is of interest in comparing pre-2002 and post-2002 UK statistics. It is of little or no interest in comparing current UK and other-nation statistics. Not even a good try at a smokescreen.
And as for quoting that “perception” crap: give me a break. Perception is exactly that – perception, which may or may not be accurate, and can easily be manipulated. (Remember the edited 911 call audio regarding Martin originally released by NBC compared to later full transcripts? Initial perception there turned out to have been intentionally manipulated to be far different than reality.) Hard data is another thing entirely. That’s much harder to manipulate.
Oh, by the way: (1.0/1.35) x 2,034 is much greater than 432 – 3.49 times greater, to be precise. So even accepting the dubious claim you cite about a 35% increase due to “victim categorization” and discounting the British crime rate appropriately (a 35% increase means the correction factor is 1.0 / 1.35 = 0.74, not 1 – 0.35 = 0.65), the British violent crime rate is still roughly 3.5 times higher than the US violent crime rate.
December 24th, 2012 at 9:56 am
Hondo, try this link to an independent UK crime survey agency:
http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/crime-prevention/latest-crime-statistics
There is also this link, which is to another independent survey. I’m tickled by the fact that they are including data on bribes. Too cool:
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk-united-kingdom/cri-crime
December 24th, 2012 at 11:40 am
[...] was that I heard the other day? “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a [...]
December 24th, 2012 at 1:27 pm
Joe,DAMN we share the same first name. The Bobbies were ordered to do creactive writing so a carjacking read like a stolen car etc. As to dieing off,yes I will. I have now trained my thrid generation in firearms. Heavy on the safety of use. My Grandsons went to the hunters safety course and told me the course just repeated what I had already traught them. Die off yes but we pass on our legacy of free men and choices. Joe
December 24th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
@ 121- Hondo- Tantrums do not negate the epic fail, they enhance it. The article does detail why violent crime is no comparable from one country to another. It states that, in the UK, an argument without injury that disturbs the peace will be counted as a violent crime. That’s not the case here. The article that I gave further stated that in 2002 the recording of whether something is or is not a violent crime has been left up to the alleged victim. That’s not the case here.
Also, the people within your article that are saying that crime is all-to-hell in the UK is the oposition party. The ones that say they’re not comparable are criminologists. The ones without “skin in the game” are generally considered to be the better arbiters.
But if you want more, here the European Commission did a statistical analysis of Crime throughout Europe:
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Crime_trends_in_detail
Money quote:
=============================================================
There are differences between countries in systems of legal and criminal justice; in definitions of crimes[1]; methods of reporting, recording and counting crimes; and the proportion of reported to unreported crime[2]. So it is not usually possible to make direct comparisons of crime types and levels between countries…..
=============================================================
The analysis goes on further to state:
=============================================================
Homicide is a type of violent crime, and is defined as the intentional killing of a person, including murder, manslaughter, euthanasia and infanticide. It excludes death by dangerous driving, abortion and help with suicide.
Because of its seriousness, homicide is fairly consistently reported, and definitions vary less between countries than for some other types of crime.
=============================================================
So, gun deaths and homicides the limited thing that those in favor of gun control are talking about IS comparable. The nebulous thing you’re talking about, violent crime, isn’t.
The purpose of the “study” by the Tories was political. It was to say: “Look how bad it is in the UK, elect us!” Your purpose in shilling the article is also political.
What’s hysterical is your double standard. If I state a fact concerning ALL black Senators and ALL black Governors and the SINGLE black President, well that’s simply not detailed enough. I can’t make a generalization about it being a disadvantage to be black and seek elective office until i consider every Secretary of State and congressman and dogcatcher elected as well.
But here, we’re supposed to take at face value a rival parties politically motivated report. A report that doesn’t specify how each of the countries count what constitutes a violent crime or a robery or a rape etc. Without that breakdown it is impossible to take seriously.
Plus even if we were to take your rediculous assertions at face value, and assume that there is a one to one correlation between statistics in two different countries, isn’t that MORE evidence that we should curtail guns in the United States?
This article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
shows that the incredibly violent society of England and Wales has a hopmicide by firearms rate of 0.07 per 100,000 whereas ours is 2.97 per 100,000. And no, before you say it, Professor Plum is not making up the difference by killing you in a cloakroom with a candlestick. Here’s an article that lists ALL homicides and you will see that the UK’s homicide rate is STILL far lower. The UK suffers a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100K and the US suffers one of 5 per 100K.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/10/world-murder-rate-unodc
So if the UK which- according to the Torries and you- is this horribly no-good barbaric violent society and is STILL experiencing a homicide rate of nearly 5 times LESS that ours because of its gun ban, imagine how peaceful our relatively sedate society would be if we implimented the same ban? Monaco (0 per 100K) HERE WE COME!
December 24th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
That’s just more null content ranting from you, Sippy.
You claim that the US and UK measure violent crime differently? Fine. Provide documentation that proves the US and UK crime rates are measured differently. And also show how those same differences in measurement change the approximately 4.70:1 greater violent crime rate in the UK (2034:432), as measured by official statistics from each country. Until you’ve done that – and you have not done that above – you’re merely stating an opinion. You’ve proven nothing.
Bottom line: you’re still obfuscating above, Sippy. You have not proven your assertion that the UK has a lower overall violent crime rate than the US. Comparing the official statics from the two nations definitively indicates otherwise. You have not shown how the two nations statistics are acquired differently, what effect any hypothetical difference in data acquisition has on their respective violent crime rate calculations, or even that the two nations’ data are in fact are acquired differently. Further: until you show how any hypothetical differences between the two nations’ methods of acquiring those statistics exist and how those differences affect the result, you’re merely spouting an unsupported opinion.
You do that (spout unsupported nonsense) here quite often, but everyone here recognizes that for what it is. We all know it’s merely partisan rhetoric that has little basis in fact and which you cannot prove is correct when challenged.
And remember: the discussion concerns total violent crime rate, not merely homicide. Homicide is not the only violent crime.
December 25th, 2012 at 6:40 am
You’ve crossed the point a long time ago where you should of just surrendered gracefully and admitted that comparing violent crimes in two different countries is a pretty dumb idea. You should of also admitted that relying on political hype from another country is equally dumb.
I never made the assertion that the “Uk has a lower overall crime rate than the U.S.” In fact, i said the exact oposite, that it is impossible to compare overall crime between countries. Not only did I do that but I found a non-political analysis that stated the exact same thing. The ONLY thing I am comparing is homicide rates, particularly gun deaths. Nothing else. That is something which the same analysis site states CAN be fairly compared. That is an apples to apples comparison, yours is not.
Furthermore, i did not list “hypothetical” differences between the two methods of tabulating violent crime. I stated specifically that the U.S. does not count public disturbance as a violent crime, that the U.S. does not allow the alleged victim to determine whether it is a violent crime.
Since I’M not the one who was making the bold assertions comparing violent crime in two different countries, I’m not the one who it is incumbent upon to jump through hoops to prove a point. You’re the one insisting that the UK is a vastly more violent place than the U.S.A. therefore it is up to you to 1. make sure that there are like for like definitions of what constitutes a violent crime and 2. Make sure that they both report violent crimes equally. If you went by REPORTED violent crime, Somalia is a much safer place than either country. Not having a working government to actually report crimes to tends to do that for you.
But since i’m a giver, i’ll actually make it easier for you, Hondo. Here’s a 67 page PDF that actually lists what constitutes violent crime in the UK:
http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs07/countviolence07.pdf
You’ll note that there are several infractions here that constitutes violent crime in the UK that does not constitute violent crime in the U.S.A.. One of those is possession of a weapon (page 33):
Possession of offensive weapon without lawful authority or reasonable excuse.
Having an article with a blade or point in a public place.
Another is endangering life at sea (27)
Sending unseaworthy ship to sea.
Not waiting to save lives in collision (not even a crime in the U.S., let alone a violent crime. Generally there is no good samaritan rules in the U.S.. Though i do think some states have them.)
Failing to assist ships in distress or persons in danger at sea.
Cruelty to and neglect of children (47)
Taking children to nurse for reward.
Allowing child or young person to be in brothel.
Neglecting to provide for safety at children’s entertainment.
Harassment: (page 35)
Anyway, have fun carefully tabulating every single report of violent crime in the UK and taking out ALL of those which would not count in the U.S.A.. And then after doing that you’ll also take into account other variables such as different reporting methods to give us a fully accurate, non-politically motivated run-down of violent crime in the UK vs. the USA. Either that, or you can just come to the same conclusion the criminologists came to, that such comparisons are impossible to make and you can just enjoy your XMAS with your family.
Believe it or not, and for whatever it is worth, i sincerely hope you do the latter and have a happy holiday.
December 25th, 2012 at 9:17 am
That’s “lower violent crime rate”, Sippy – not “lower crime rate”. Apparently it’s too much to ask for you to get that right, but no matter.
In disputing the comparison of official figures showing the contrary, that’s exactly what you’re doing – albeit indirectly. You’re disputing the comparison showing the UK violent crime rate to be approximately 4.70 times higher that of the US violent crime rate. The only meaningful reason for you to dispute it is that you are contending that the UK violent crime rate is in fact lower, and that the comparison is invalid because the statistics are not comparable. (I don’t believe even a fool like yourself would be jumping through these hoops if you actually believed the UK violent crime rate was in fact higher than that of the US as the official statistics show.)
Ergo, logically that’s exactly what you’re indirectly claiming – e.g., the UK violent crime rate is indeed lower than that of the US, but that fact is masked by bad statistics. So that means it’s your responsibility to support that argument.
I’ll grant you this: for once, you might have found actual credible data rather than simply MSU or rehashing previously-discredited liberal or Democratic talking points. And that data might – or might not – support your argument. But you still haven’t proven anything at this point.
All you did so far is point to a source data from the UK. You haven’t yet identified (1) how the UK data differs from comparable data for the US, comprehensively, for all violent crimes in each nation; (2) whether the differences between the two sets of data are substantial, or even if they exist; (3) if any differences exist, if those differences are meaningful; or (4) if any meaningful differences exist, whether they support or refute your hypothesis. In short, you’ve got a lot of work left to do to prove your argument.
I’m not going to make your argument or do your work for you here. After all: you’re the one disputing official government statistics showing that the UK has nearly a 5x greater violent crime rate than the US – so you are the one who has the burden of proving those official statistics wrong or misleading. I’m OK with accepting the official figures from each nation at face value until someone can prove to me otherwise that I shouldn’t.
So far you haven’t done that. All you’ve done is point to some UK data and make hand-waving claims to the effect that “you can’t compare US and UK crime data; they’re ‘different’”. OK – then show us HOW they’re different, IF any difference exists and/or is even relevant, and HOW BIG AND IN WHAT DIRECTION any differences that might exist actually are.
Enjoy your holiday today also, Sippy. Rest up; looks you’ve got a lot of work in front of you to justify your position above. Enjoy.