Utah teachers to pack gun training seminar

| December 27, 2012 | 22 Comments

The Washington Post reports that about 200 teachers will pack a free six-hour seminar so that they can arm themselves and protect the children who are in their charge;

The Utah Shooting Sports Council said it normally gathers a dozen teachers every year for instruction that’s required to legally carry a concealed weapon in public places. The state’s leading gun lobby decided to offer teachers the training at no charge to encourage turnout, and it worked.

Organizers who initially capped attendance at 200 were exceeding that number by Wednesday and scrambling to accommodate an overflow crowd.

Of course, because it’s the Post, and the Post is vehemently opposed to guns, they have to find the best opposition they can find to finish their article;

Utah educators say they would ban guns if they could and have no way of knowing how many teachers are armed.

“It’s a terrible idea,” said Carol Lear, a chief lawyer for the Utah Office of Education, who argues teachers could be overpowered for their guns or misfire or cause an accidental shooting. “It’s a horrible, terrible, no-good, rotten idea.”

Carol Lear is brilliant and gives such a good explanation for her position that I can’t help but agree. That was sarcasm, by the way.

Category: Guns

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  1. NR Pax says:

    Right, Mrs. Lear. Because everyone knows that all criminals have magical ninja powers that enable them to steal weapons without being seen.

    And a gun misfiring while in the holster is a sign of a defective gun. Why are these people wasting my air?

  2. NHSparky says:

    Seems to me that carrying guns on school grounds would still be illegal. After all, schools would still be free-fire (whoops–“gun-free”) zones, and everyone knows that a menacing sign threatening me with jail time and fines is going to stop me dead in my tracks, won’t it Ms. Lear?

    Clown.

  3. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    Sparky: Not in Utah! In fact, the state law prohibits schools and other places from restricting concealed weapons for permit holders! Guns are prohibited in churches IF the church puts up a notice that they are prohibited. I also found that one reason a permit is to be denied is a dishonorable discharge from the military.

  4. Kateser says:

    Larry Correia (novelist of The Monster Hunter series) has a pretty good rant, he has trained Utah teachers/CCP holders for several years and make a pretty damn good argument.

    http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/

  5. CAs6 says:

    Carol Lear is a hack. She’s an ivory tower lawyer who hasn’t set foot in a classroom since law school. She got fired by the Utah Attorney General back in 2007 but somehow got her job back. In 2005 she tried to destroy the famous Highland Rugby team, and she’s against school choice and school vouchers.

    She is completely out of touch with what Utah students, teachers, and residents in general want and need, it’s not surprising that she is against this. Thank goodness Utah’s right to privacy is preventing her from blabbing which teachers will have permits (and which substitute teachers in my case.) Like I said in another thread, I pack every day and nobody knows. That’s the way it should be. Utah has some excellent laws in that regard.

  6. GruntSgt says:

    An interesting note to the Utah CCW permits I recently learned. It’s accepted in more states than any other I know of and you don’t have to be a citizen of Utah to obtain one. They can be obtained through different gunstores and ranges around the Northwest that offer classes.

  7. The Dead Man says:

    I need to double check the law on CCW in schools, I’d swear my local college said no guns. I’ll check when I go in for my CCW permit class in the next month. If you guys have anything you’d like me to check in on while doing so, let me know.

    On other Utah news, they all pretty much dropped the story about the adoption issue from a few weeks back. I haven’t seen or heard anything on it since.

  8. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    Yeah, she apparently got herself in hot water with the Utah AG a few years ago when, contrary to the state’s legal position on school vouchers, she opposed them in an official, not a personal, capacity. The Utah AG told her in so many words to STHU and she responded by saying that she works for the Dept of Ed so na-na-na-na-na-na. It’s just like this business with the WP and its gun story. She calls it a stupid, terrible, and rotten idea. Okay, thanks for your personal opinion, Carol. I am sure that being adamantly opposed to the carrying of weapons by teachers, she will stand on principle and resign. (Just kidding.)

  9. NHSparky says:

    Interesting to know, AirCav. Interesting indeed. Maybe Joe, sippy, or one of the other trolls can come in here and tell us all about the bloodbaths that happen on the streets and in the schools of Provo, Ogden, and Spanish Fork on a daily basis.

    Or not.

  10. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    @7. I’ll check it out and get back to you here.

  11. Virtual Insanity says:

    In Alabama, you can concealed carry into schools (defined as K-12 in the law), and open carry as long as you have no “intent to cause harm.”

    Interestingly, one of the nearby universities, of which my son and I are both alums, began confiscating pocket knives and lighters at the gate.

    Of course, they only asked if I had anything IN MY POCKETs. the Glock wasn’t IN MY POCKET.

    I called the campus police chief the next day, and he opined as to how with a CCW I could carry into the stadium with no legal problem.

    I often love this state.

  12. CAs6 says:

    @7 The Dead Man, the only colleges in Utah that prohibit guns on campus are BYU and Westminster, and they are both private schools. Westminster is more anal-retentive about it, the BYU cops don’t care. Probably 2% of the campus carries concealed handguns on any given day. A couple of the cops even teach CCW classes, and their “Shots Fired” active shooter training program includes instructions in case you are carrying a gun and encounter an active shooter.

  13. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    @7. Here’s the stuff.

    I’m beginning to like Utah. Did you know that you can search online for active warrants on people? That’s convenient!

    The source code for the statutes is U.C.A 76-10-50, et al.. The specific statute going to weapons at school is U.C.A 76-10.505.5 and provides:

    (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
    (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
    (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
    (3) This section does not apply if:
    (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
    (b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
    (c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or […]

    The laws cited in (3)(a) for exceptions to the prohibition are those that permit qualified citizens to carry a concealed weapon! Also, unless the legislature provides otherwise, no jurisdiction within the state of Utah is legally permitted to put its own restrictions on where and when a permit holder may carry a concealed weapon.

    This is a rather superficial going over and case law is not considered here. That matters and it matters a lot! If I were you, I would go to my dean and ask him or her, “I’m doing some research and was wondering whether the NO GUN rule applies to holders of concealed weapons permits.” If the answer is yes, then I’d ask, “Can you provide me with the legal authority for that rule please?”

    Here’s a link. Enjoy!

    http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/utah/ut-code/utah_code_76-10-505-5

  14. Virtual Insanity says:

    #13 2-17 CAV

    Pretty much the same language here in Alabama.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/alabama.pdf

  15. FatCircles0311 says:

    Could this be the start of teachers that aren’t incredibly unhealthy slobs just there to collect their benefits, inject their political views into everything, and rewrite history?

    I’m shocked that grown ass adults would be held responsible professionally for the safety of their students in America.

  16. 2-17 Air Cav says:

    “Could this be the start of teachers that aren’t incredibly unhealthy slobs just there to collect their benefits, inject their political views into everything, and rewrite history?”

    If you’re gonna dream, dream big!

  17. Ex-PH2 says:

    I always liked Utah because of its mountains and rivers.

    If you move to Utah, does that mean the Mormons are going to come around to your front door and offer a canned ham if you convert? Do I have to put out a sign “To all Mormons: Don’t knock, just leave the ham”?

    Is that where “Electric Horseman” was set? Or was that Nevada?

    In regard to Ms. Lear, after I read her opinion on how out of control those nasty guns are, I wondered just what she meant by ‘overpower their owners’. And then it occurred to me that she thinks that guns are animate objects, that they have secret lives in which they hide in dark corners and wait until someone walks by so they can bite him on the ankle.

    Where do these dinglebats get this stuff?

  18. Common Sense says:

    “teachers could be overpowered for their guns or misfire or cause an accidental shooting”

    Utah has allowed concealed carry in schools since 2001 and those things have yet to happen.

    How about we compare actually stats for states allowing CCW in schools and states that don’t instead of hysterical, over-emotional demagoguery.

  19. The Dead Man says:

    #17 I’ve finally gotten the Missionaries to leave me alone. Honestly I think the only reason they tried for so long is that my Grandmother and a few others this side of the family are LDS and probably kept trying to get me signed up. There’s a reason my tag in my own corner of the internet tends to be Heretic.

    #13 I must be remembering wrong then. Definitely nice to know, means I don’t have to leave my gun with work when I head to class though.

  20. Ex-PH2 says:

    I looked up Montana’s gun laws, because it’s such a pretty state. I know, I know. The winters are god-awful and cell phone service is spotty, but the mountains and rivers make up for that.

    This is a summary on MT gun laws:

    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/a/gunlaws_mt.htm

    Here’s something about Wyoming’s firearms legislation:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/04/us-wyoming-guns-idUSTRE72309020110304

    and this: http://statelaws.net/Wyoming-Gun-Laws.php

    And then there is Idaho: http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Idaho-Gun-Laws.htm

    They also grow a lot of potatoes in Idaho.

    Those are summaries, not statutes. I doubt that Ms. DiFi’s attempts to ban scary black weapons will carry much weight with people in western states. But then, she’s never been where you need to have a holstered revolver if you’re out in rattlesnake country.

  21. B Woodman says:

    Several years ago, the UU (University of Utah) tried to impose a no carry on campus rule, and was promptly slapped down by the state AG, because the school was state funded.
    It was a relatively long drawn out affair, because the school dean kept behaving like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum.
    But on the good side, there were no campus shootings before, and there have been no campus shootings since (/sarc off).

  22. CAs6 says:

    @21, the truth is more sinister than that. They tried to *secretly* impose it (no public pronouncement of policy) and tell the cops to strictly enforce it. One of the stupidest precepts of the ban was no weapons were to be allowed within 300 yards of the university.

    A campus security guard found out and threw the BS flag. The university tried to silence him, so he and a full-time cop resigned and went to the papers. As you noted, the Utah AG quickly put the smack down, and that’s when the dean threw a fit and it had to go to the Utah Supreme Court, where reality and common sense prevailed.

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