Guns in Utah

| February 1, 2013

If guns are your issue, Utah might be the place to live if the links that David sent us this morning are to be believed.

A homeowner arrived at his home to discover a man with a prybar at his door and a woman in his driveway honking the horn on her car frantically to warn prybar guy;

“He saw a male exit the home, he had some type of pry-bar in his hand. The homeowner then returned to his car and retrieved a handgun from his car and two rounds were fired before officers arrived. We’re still investigating where the rounds were fired,” said Layton Police Lt. Shawn Horton.

The male suspect, identified as 43-year-old Robert Santos Cruz, tried running from the house as officers arrived, but he was caught a short time later.

Meanwhile, Utah’s sheriffs have sent a letter to President Obama warning him that they won’t violate Second Amendment protection in their counties – well, 28 of 29 counties, anyway;

Part of the letter reads, “No federal official will be permitted to descend upon our constituents and take from them what the Bill of Rights—in particular Amendment II—has given them.”

Summit County Sheriff Dave Edmunds, the head of the Utah Sheriffs’ Association, says the letter is just a preemptive warning saying that if anything unconstitutional is passed, local authorities will not enforce it.

Edmunds says that he doesn’t object to anything proposed by the Obama Administration already.

“We thought it prudent from our position knowing full well what the manifest intent of that administration is and they’re being very clear about it, they want gun regulation in this country and they want it to be more widespread,” Edmunds said.

And there’s murmurs in the legislature to loosen gun laws in the state;

Rep. John Mathis, R-Vernal, is proposing legislation that says that if you can legally own a gun you can legally carry it, whether it’s open or concealed.

But Curtis Haring of Utah Political Capitol disagrees; he says Utah’s concealed carry permit system is fine.

“We want to make sure we have reasonable set of gun laws, much like the status quo,” Haring said. “Do we want to be seen as a state where just anybody can walk around with a gun at any time?”

Oh, scary – gun owners just walking around with guns. I guess because we only buy guns to hang on our wall for show when we’re not out hunting. As one legislator said; “The mere fact that you’re legally carrying a gun does not constitute disorderly conduct.”

Category: Guns

Comments (67)

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  1. Jonn Lilyea says:

    I’m glad I’ve never been tear gassed!

  2. NHSparky says:

    Jonn…going through the smoke and tear gas trainer was part of the firefighting training in boot for us Navy pukes. The gas and smoke weren’t that bad, and when you threw in the firefighting stuff we did that day, was actually kind of fun. All we needed to do was gas a few hippies and it would have been the perfect day indeed.

  3. Hondo says:

    Jonn: if that includes missing out on exposure in the chamber – you’re lucky. Had a mask leak just a tad once (my own fault, probably – should have checked the fit/seal better before going in). CS is truly nasty stuff. There’s a damn good reason very few stick around after it’s used. (smile)

  4. NHSparky says:

    Hondo…for the gas trainer, we go in wearing masks. Then we had the pleasure of taking them off. Sucked for a few, but it dd serve a valid purpose.

  5. Joe Williams says:

    In 1971 at NAS Dallas,people like and your mouth had me doing an extra duty I did not want. Squad leader on the Riot Platoon. After 25 months in Vietnam I am put in a position of possibly fighting my own countrymen. During those years,I ran into a lot of you true belivers,all talk and no action. As pointed out we have more respect for the ones who fled or went to jail for their convictions.Do not bring that higher morals in here when you suposely tear gassed on your after you found out you had a high(safe) draft number. Joe

  6. Hondo says:

    NHSparky: NH got a BS of 6 (yes, use of the acronym is intentional) for the following:

    – State license required for firearms dealers (2 pts)
    – Employers can ban firearms in parking lots (2 pts)
    – Colleges can ban firearms on campuses (2 pts)

    I can live with the first two (the 2nd Amendment applies to government actions, not employer policies). The third I find problematic, as by state law it creates an announced “gun free zone” at any college in the state. “Gun free zones” are nothing but publicly-identified soft targets.

    Full BS criteria and state breakdown is found at

    I thought that was the link I had posted in comment 6 above, but I apparently posted the link to the summary table by mistake. My bad.

  7. Old Trooper says:

    @25: Joe; go look at the FBI statistics. You’ll notice that the premise stated in the Mother Jones “facts” is that most of them are from “surveys” or from the CDC, Pediatricians, and the UN, rather than actual data compiled by law enforcement. They searched far and wide in order to find anything they could glom onto to support their anti-gun agenda, yet, when compared with actual data, they fall flatter than piss on a plate. You know this. You have had those same talking points refuted with data and facts for over a month, yet you still want to try and serve it up, again. The only “myth” is that Mother Jones has any facts at all about anything.

  8. Old Trooper says:

    @31: You pussy. Every member of the military gets to taste CS (tear gas) as part of their training. Don’t act like you are some sort of brave warrior when you think that getting a little tear gas for being a douche somehow is worse than anything above training level in the military.

  9. Hondo says:

    NHSparky, Old Trooper: Army training got spotty on that for a while in the late 1970s-mid 1980s. I don’t remember ever being required to take the mask off in the chamber during training. (I think we had a couple of troops who had a serious reaction and local leadership just didn’t want to risk the political fallout from another one. Might have only been the units/posts where I was stationed, though.)

    Based on my experience with minor leakage, full exposure would have been “no fun whatsoever”. A minor leak was enough to let me know I didn’t want to mess with Mr. CS. (smile)

  10. Virtual Insanity says:

    #59 Hondo–I had to do the full mask confidence exercise in 1980 at BT on Ft. Leonard Wood, then again four years later in the officer’s basic course.

    They didn’t seem to have any reservation whatsoever to CSing us during home station training or NTC rotations all through the late 80s and early 90s, either.

    The banana oil test was much more pleasant.

  11. Old Trooper says:

    @59: Hondo, in October of 1981, it sure was employed. Go in the door, stand in line, get to the front of the line in front of a DI and then you had to take your mask off and recite your name, SSN, and unit before they would let you out the door. Then, you had to run around with your arms waving while snot ran out of your nose uncontrollably and tears ran out of your eyes like a waterfall…………..good times, good times.

  12. Ex-PH2 says:

    Never spray a bear when you’re downwind of the bear in a strong breeze.

  13. Jonn Lilyea says:

    Um, I was being facetious. Joe is talking to a crowd of people who have all been gassed. In fact, I used to go in the gas chamber with my cadets without my mask – still yelling. My point was that if getting gassed was the least comfortable Joe has ever been, he’s a fairly lucky guy.

  14. Hondo says:

    OT, VI: as I said, it might just have been the Posts/installations at which I was stationed during the time. But we apparently had folks running the show who decided to cut some slack.

    Bad decision IMO. If someone’s going to have a reaction, you want to know that in training and not in a field or operational situation. And based on the minor leak I had once, that demo would indeed drive home the point that a properly fitted and sealed mask really does work.

    Dunno if I agree with the running around the chamber part, though. That seems considerably more than necessary to get the point across. Reciting one’s SSN was what the older guys told us to expect. Many of them also admitted they never got past the 4th digit or so. (smile)

  15. Hondo says:

    OK, Jonn – didn’t pick up on that. Mea culpa. (smile)

    And I agree. I can think of many worse things I’ve experienced, even if I didn’t get the “full dose”. Joe’s damn lucky if getting a whiff of CS was the worst thing he’s ever experienced.

  16. Richard says:

    @63+1 @61+1 in Ft Leonard Wood, 1970. One of our DIs stood in the gas chamber for 2 hours – he was immune. If I had not seen it I would not believe it.

    Is it possible that our Joe has no frame of reference? Perhaps he hasn’t been to a 3rd world country — like Juarez Mexico? If that were the case, then he might think that being tear gassed in 1971 was pretty bad.

    Hey Joe, look up Cambodia on Wiki. Read the section titled, “Khmer Rouge regime” then come back and tell us again how bad it was to be tear-gassed. For those who don’t know, the Cambodian government emptied their cities and killed about 2 million of their own people, about one quarter of their population. At the time, Joe marched to allow the NVA into Cambodia. Way to go Joe.

    Back to Utah, look up the history of the Mormons as they moved from New York to Salt Lake. Self defense is a core LDS belief because it was necessary.

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