I want to hear this story
I want to know what two women out delivering newspapers could do to make the Los Angeles Police Department think that they were a single large black man on a killing rampage. I want to hear that story. But, of course, we’re not hearing it from the LA Times;
Two women who were shot by Los Angeles police in Torrance early Thursday during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer were delivering newspapers, sources said.
The women, shot in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue, were taken to area hospitals, Torrance police Lt. Devin Chase said. They were not identified. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back, according to Jesse Escochea, who captured video of the victims being treated.
It was not immediately known what newspapers the women were delivering. After the shooting, the blue pickup was riddled with bullet holes and what appeared to be newspapers lay in the street alongside.
Of course, this is the same police department that made news for a week by by paying $200 for an inert piece of fiberglass that they called a rocket propelled grenade launcher. It sounds to me that Dorner dodged a bullet by getting kicked off of the LAPD force. He should be grateful that he’s no longer associated with these pants wetters. Yeah, Unless he offs himself, Dorner is going to be shot by the LAPD. That’s fairly obvious at this point. But at this point, if anyone from the LAPD finds his lifeless body, they’ll still shoot it up so it doesn’t come back Hollywood style and kill them all.
LA residents should seriously stay off the streets, not because of Dorner.
Thanks to Old Trooper for the link.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:22 pm
An attorney representing two women who were delivering newspapers when they were shot by police during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer called the incident “unacceptable,” saying his clients looked nothing like the suspect.
Emma Hernandez, 71, was delivering the Los Angeles Times with her daughter, Margie Carranza, 47, in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue in Torrance on Thursday morning when Los Angeles police detectives apparently mistook their pickup for that of Christopher Dorner, the 33-year-old fugitive suspected of killing three people and injuring two others.
“The problem with the situation is it looked like the police had the goal of administering street justice and in so doing, didn’t take the time to notice that these two older, small Latina women don’t look like a large black man,” Jonas said.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-shootings-newspaper-carriers.html
February 8th, 2013 at 12:22 pm
A couple of things here:
(1) I’m not a LEO, but if I were, I suspect I’d know not to arbitrarily shoot at any BOLO vehicle that meets the description of the vehicle I’m looking for without first making positive ID, and
(2) If you live in SoCal and own a blue truck (of any make and model), you may want to put it in the garage and not drive it until this all blows over.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
I dont always shoot first but when I do its always at the wrong target. Stay bloody LAPD.
I know some people who live in that area and I feel bad they have to deal with police like these. Teh Stoopid it burns…
February 8th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
Shoot first. Don’t bother asking questions.
Great police work. Glad I do not live in LA. I can actually see this happening in Chicago. CPD cops do jump the gun on a regular basis. Yes, they are trigger-happy.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
I definetly would not want to be a large black man or own a blue truck in LA right now.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Good grief, they unloaded on that vehicle!!
I won’t shed a tear if they shoot Dorner but c’mon guys….that’s ridiculous…
February 8th, 2013 at 12:35 pm
I blame it on the scary Assault Weapons and high capacity magazines. Luckily these devices of WAR were not in the hands of law-abiding citizens or criminals.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
i thought the perp’s truck was bolo’d as silver?
February 8th, 2013 at 12:38 pm
And the goofy chief (who called a fiberglass tube a grenade launcher)stated that Dorner is dangerous because “we trained him”.
If this is the case, the entire department is dangerous to the general public.
“When policemen break the law, there is no law” -Billy Jack
February 8th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
@8 – I overheard “light blue”… easily mistaken for as silver I suppose, but my eyesight is better than that.
Either way, it was a bad shooting and the LAPD is likely going to get sued for a few million bucks on this one.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
LL Cool J may want to stay home for a while…
February 8th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
Memo the the California police: “Buck fever” is not permissable on a city street unless you live in Fairbanks, Alaska, and a moose attacks your cruiser.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
But that truck is not light blue. It’s just blue. It doesn’t even approach silver, either.
Don’tcha just love trigger-happy cops with bad eyesight.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:52 pm
Seriously, though…these cops are nervous, and it would be best to avoid anything in the area that even remotely LOOKS like a cop until this is over. Bad, being shot by a criminal; worse, being ventilated by a scared cop.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:52 pm
But the cops were chanting the magic words as they were shooting:
Quit resisting! Quit resisting!
That makes it legal and perfectly acceptable.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
I am guessing that these two ladies will own the LAPD after all is said and done.
How is it they mis-identified this truck as possibly being Dorner’s? They have the capability of searching DMV records at their fingertips. They could have ordered the driver and passengers out of the vehicle at gunpoint. They could have done several things to assure themselves it was either Dorner or not.
Yet the police put over twenty rounds through the back of their truck. LAPD better get deeper and richer pockets.
February 8th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
Jesus what a Goat Rope!!
February 8th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
At the time it did not even match the description of the truck he driving, but was driving near one of his identified future victims. Though I will give them a small point of not being able to see through the blackened rear window and driving slowly the wrong way on the street.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
@12, I’ve actually missed part of a day at work because a moose was standing next to my truck and wouldn’t move.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
@4 Ex-PH2
“Shoot first. Don’t bother asking questions.”
Seems to a LOT of that going around.
Shades of Jose Guerña …
February 8th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
Obviously the LAPD are not the “Marksman” that Dorner is. Seriously, 20+ rounds and only 2 of the rounds hit the women? It may be safer for the police to be limited to 7 rounds!!!
February 8th, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Ah … that would be: Seems to be a …
Wish there were an Edit function for typos … alas …
February 8th, 2013 at 1:07 pm
Christ I counted at least 30 bullet holes in the Toyota Tundra that says “Tundra” on the tail gate. They were looking for a Nissan Titan. The Titan that he was driving had a big rack on the top though I don’t know if they knew that in the BOLO. Anyway, they have to be awful trigger happy and sure as hell did not know what their target was. They will pay big time for that screw up.
First, you do a felony-stop on the vehicle, you don’t just start blasting at darkened windows. Pathetic, but that seems to be more common down there.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:08 pm
Twist — a moose? A moose was your excuse? I never tried that one. If I couldn’t come up with anything else, I used a rampaging fever and a bout of the epizootic. And that is ‘rampaging’, as opposed to ‘raging’.
I did try the ‘wolf at the back door’ thing once.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
As noted by Pat Rogers, the bullet holes in the tailgate are disturbing. IMHO, that’s not just incompetent target ID, it’s piss poor marksmanship as well.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:14 pm
Again-driving slowly down the opposite side of the street is typical of newspaper deliverers-if you are putting a paper in the box at the end of someone’s driveway from the driver’s side that’s what you would be doing. Citizens have to be able to go about their normal business without worrying that the cops will light them up because they got twitchy-no excuse for the LAPD.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
@24, My Platoon Sergeant at the time had me take a picture of it to show as proof.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
@25- The cops thought he was lying down in the bed of the truck.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:25 pm
those poor women will get some money and possibly a new truck outta this mess but,,they will be mind-fuk’d forever!
no friggin excuses for this cluster fuk at all.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
@19 I got chased by one of our town mulies (mule deer) a couple of weeks ago at my apartment. Wasn’t armed at the time; had to run and dive into my car.
Those women’s guardian angels were working overtime, because there were several rounds at head level through that back window. Those women are lucky to still be breathing.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:31 pm
PN, I counted 22 bullet holes at the cab height of that pickup. They are lucky to be alive at all.
No excuse for that. I don’t care if they thought Dorner was hanging off the side mirrors. No excuse. Period. They could have shot out the tires and done less damage.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:37 pm
What further proof is needed about how wrong Dorner was about the LAPD? /sarc off
If soldiers in Aghanistan pulled something like this, there would be media outrage and a court martial. These guys will get medals and promotions.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:39 pm
LAPD cops are gonna kill the cop killer. I don’t think they’re too concerned about innocents getting killed or wounded in the process. If that sounds pretty harsh, oh well.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:42 pm
On another board I read the question was posed as to whether or not these cops will face charges-the most likely answer seems to be probably not. Sure, they acted “without malice”, but maybe one of the TAH lawyer types can tell me if you have to show malice to charge someone with something like reckless endangerment, or what kinds of charges might be appropriate.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:45 pm
Ex-PH2
It looked like the tires on the driver’s side were flat…keep counting!
February 8th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
It was clearly self defense your honor. I feared for my life.
Pretty tight grouping, BTW.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
It seems to me, if I recall correctly, that a man was shot dead in his vehicle by a trigger happy cop in LA a while back, because the cop thought he was dangerous. I guess the residents of LA need to worry about the cops more than the criminals.
February 8th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
OT, yeah, I was just counting the bulletholes on the cab of the truck.
Doesn’t it make you wonder if the cops said ‘Oh, shit!’ when they saw it was not Dorner?
February 8th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
This is just another example of government abusing their power what happens if an armed citizen is being wrongly fired upon by the police and the citizen returns fire and kills the cop? Death Penalty probably..
February 8th, 2013 at 2:14 pm
Those women are lucky that the cops who shot them are terrible at aiming. Look at that spread….jesus.
February 8th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Good thing they can’t shoot for $hit.
Thugs with badges.
February 8th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
Yeah i would say they got a lot of splainin to do.
How in the fuck you could fire on a truck with a totally different color is beyond me ???
The majority of the LAPD resembles the Mexican Federales , rather than a modern American Police Dept.
And thats not my statement, thats what my fiance says.
(She’s been a cop in Maryland for over 20 yrs. )
Not suprized this retread is an Obama lover either.
February 8th, 2013 at 2:21 pm
The Dude hates cops I used to get hassled by the campus police all the time after I got back from Iraq, most cops have never served so they have an inferiority complex with vets and most of the cops I have dealt with wouldn’t have made it in the military just a bunch of fat slobs.
February 8th, 2013 at 2:25 pm
http://tbrnews.com/news/redondo_beach/police-confuse-trucks-for-dorner-s-shoot-at-three-people/article_a4bf7840-71ba-11e2-8abe-0019bb2963f4.html
They did it twice:
“The second shooting involved Torrance police officers, who were stationed nearby in the event LAPD needed them. When the officers heard the gunshots, they headed toward
At that point, a driver in another pickup truck that look similar to Dorner’s drove toward them on Flagler Lane near Beryl Street. Officers, suspecting it was Dorner, purposely collided with the truck and shot at him.”
I know the end of the first paragraph is cut off…it’s like that on the site, too.
February 8th, 2013 at 2:28 pm
Not trying to justify the 2 shooting incidents, but they occurred when it was dark. It’s hard to judge the color and exact make of a vehicle or who is inside the vehicle in those conditions. However, even if they were driving all over the place (drivers delivering newspapers early in the morning)cannot see enough reason to open fire even though officers new Dorner was wanted for murder and had shot at 4 officers killing 1 and wounding 2. Thank God, the 2 ladies and gentleman survived.
It does seem kind of wrong to judge all law enforcement officers by the actions of a few. It would be kind of like using Iraq veterans like Dorner to judge the rest of us that served there.
February 8th, 2013 at 2:32 pm
If they had tried that with me I would have taken a few of them with me, I keep my AR and a 12 guage under my seat with easy access, my old lady bitches at me for it but you never know.. Cop or no cop if you shoot at me I am gonna return fire with extreme prejudice.
February 8th, 2013 at 2:33 pm
If Dorner’s plan was to make the police look bad, he seems to have done a helluva job. I mean he’s still done wrong, and is probably going to get shot dead for it if he can’t get out of the LA area before he’s encountered.
I wonder if he’s hiding in a woodland hole somewhere, or if he’s grabbed a car and left the area. Heck, he could have found a nice quiet spot to shoot himself and may never be found.
February 8th, 2013 at 2:37 pm
@45 How about postively IDing your target before opening fire it is absurd that troops overseas have less lattitude for shooting people than police in our country do..
If you’re in Iraq and you shoot up a car with civilians in it your ass is going to be standing on the rug in front of the old man.. These cops will probably get a commendation or something.
February 8th, 2013 at 3:00 pm
Ho lee shit, the first shooting was just over 1/2 mile from my mother-in-law…she is fine, but what she described as a hullaballoo (sp?) made her really happy she doesn’t drive a pickup.
February 8th, 2013 at 3:09 pm
Just noticed something while counting bullet-holes. It looks like there are a few shotgun shells lying in the street, meaning that at least one of the cops was using his scatter-gun, which would make identifying number of shots via counting holes a bit more unreliable.
Makes no difference whatsoever in the discussion of identifying your target before pulling the trigger, but it does somewhat mitigate the large number of holes and explain why the ladies only got hit twice.
(back to quiet lurking…)
February 8th, 2013 at 3:12 pm
Thank GOD I don’t live in LA or in Kalifornia, period. A mentally retarded one-eyed orangutan on LSD could do a better job than those LAPD jokers. Thugs and punks with badges that think that gives them the authority to harass, badger, and bully whomever they please.
February 8th, 2013 at 3:17 pm
Charles Rane:
I served in Iraq from 2005 until 2006 and there was still blue on blue regardless of the positive ID rules. And Marines did not have less latitude to shoot then officers in the United States when I was there. Would almost guarantee these officers have been put on admin leave until the investigation is completed. There is no doubt money will be paid out to the 3 innocent people involved.
After retiring as an amtrack platoon sergeant in 1999 when into law enforcement like many other Marines. Was recalled in 2005 and served with II MEF(FWD) at Camp Fallujah. Situations involving possibly armed individuals is extremely stressful regardless if overseas or stateside. My main point is still why judge all officers by a few knuckleheads, unless you already have a dislike of the police.
February 8th, 2013 at 3:21 pm
That is some piss poor marksmanship. Chief Parker would be rolling in his grave…. What does Darryl Gates have to say abou these two incidents? This is getting stoopid. The Governor needs to call in the Guard and relieve the LAPD of their duties.
February 8th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Living in Fairfax County, the PD here has plenty of vets and NG/Reserve folks, I haven’t heard the “I would have served, but…” Excuse that I’ve heard from cops in other areas. I would hope the officers in both incidents are one admin leave pending the investigation of the incidents, but, being the LAPD, I doubt it very much.
February 8th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
Obviously none of us were there, but I wonder if the LAPD even bothered to conduct a felony stop and try to ID the passengers, or did they just exit their car and start shooting?
February 8th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
M.I.L. said before the shooting started, there were 4 police choppers in the air over the neighborhood for some time. From the sounds (rumor control, natch) the police saw the paper delivery pickup in front of the house of an individual that was named in Dorner’s manifesto, and what happened next is running amock in my imagination…
February 8th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
@55: By the looks of it, they stopped the truck and opened up, since all the holes in the backside.
I understand they are a little jumpy, but shooting up a couple of women and a man in a separate incident isn’t going to sit well with the community, either.
February 8th, 2013 at 4:33 pm
@57 Nah, they were probably leaning out the window shooting at high speed like in the movies. That’s about all I can think of that explains the spread.
February 8th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
@57, I’m willing to bet that the door was left open after they removed the injured for transport to the hospital.
February 8th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
USMCE8Ret:
Thought the same thing when first heard of these shootings.
Old Trooper:
You’re right and the community has good reason to be upset; hopefully they won’t blame all officers because of poor judgment by a few. When people are jumpy they can make poor decisions. Lord knows there were too many blue on blue incidents in Desert Storm and Iraq.
February 8th, 2013 at 4:44 pm
LAPD is considered by most Libtards as the ideal and most trained police force in the states. Shit like this certainly says otherwise. No positive ID before they opened fire on civilians. I’m not sure if I suggest they hit the range because in this case that is what saved these innocent people. I’m pro police but this is wrong and ridiculous. It looks like amateur hour of incredibly scared and poorly trained officers.
February 8th, 2013 at 4:45 pm
@60 don’t compare friendly fire in a combat zone to a couple of trigger happy cops, they didn’t even warn the two women or try to make a felony stop.. Police do this stuff because they know they will get away with it.
February 8th, 2013 at 5:02 pm
Interesting video from El Cajon here in Southern California. Reference how even cops can have situations that can be deadly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRhBs4cDWyk
The Dude:
Will express my opinions until Jonn tells me to stop.
February 8th, 2013 at 5:06 pm
Yat Yas, the Dude is stoned out of his tiny mind. He just said so right here: http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=34056&cpage=2#comment-764527
He’s a jerk. Pay him no mind.
February 8th, 2013 at 5:10 pm
@59: I’m sorry, I should have said “started blasting”, instead of “opened up”.
February 8th, 2013 at 5:12 pm
@63 and 64.. how am i jerk man? the weather up here sucks today nothing to do but blaze and listen to music and read a little
yityas i would argue that most of the people on this site agree with me on this one.
February 8th, 2013 at 5:42 pm
Ex-PH2:
Can understand how people are upset at these 2 shootings, just don’t understand bad mothing all officers. Many of us are prior military and most are conservative as well as quite a few with kids or family serving in the military.
One of the reasons for first coming to this site was Jonn deservedly slapping IVAW and the left around for trying to smear veterans because of a few knuckleheads. That and exposing all the phonies.
February 8th, 2013 at 6:18 pm
YatYas, there’s a difference between cops being jumpy and over-reacting, which is what is going on in LAPD, and cops who really are bad cops like ex-Chicago cop John Burge, who is now in jail for torturing confessions out of suspects because they were blacks.
February 8th, 2013 at 6:42 pm
Looks like the LA cops are as good a shot as the NYC cops that shot those 17 innocent bystanders.
Between these incidents and all the failed no-knock raids, I think we need the 2nd Amendment to protect us from the cops.
February 8th, 2013 at 6:49 pm
Maybe why they were so quick to shoot is-”It involved LAPD detectives from the Hollywood division, who were reportedly on a protective detail for an LAPD captain and his family named in Dorner’s manifesto.” Courtesy KTLA Los Angeles
February 8th, 2013 at 6:53 pm
The comment above is not a smear of the entire LAPD. Maybe they were out their environment, on unfamiliar turf?
February 8th, 2013 at 7:03 pm
Ex-PH2:
Agree, my point was that a few officers overreacted, but the thousands in Los Angeles and Southern California handled the every day calls while also being on the lookout for Dorner. Some comments have made it sound like officers are all trigger happy, corrupt or that the police are worse than criminals. Where I work in SoCal, there were a lot of “WTF” about the above shootings.
February 8th, 2013 at 7:29 pm
Looking at the truck, it looks like LAPD couldn’t hit fish in a barrel. So who really hit the women? Crips? Bloods? Latin Kings? You know, the folks with basic marksmanship training.
February 8th, 2013 at 8:19 pm
@66 “The Dude” – you wrote, “… i would argue that most of the people on this site agree with me on this one.” That’s a pretty big assumption, considering the audience you’re writing to on this blog. There’s a mix of combat and non-combat veterans here so generally see eye to eye on things, and I understood what Yatyas was getting at.
In answer to your comment… Um, no – I, for one, don’t agree with you.
…and stop smoking pot. It’s fucking with your mind and we’re not impressed.
February 8th, 2013 at 8:43 pm
I want a count of the holes in that house-shaped backstop.
February 8th, 2013 at 9:31 pm
Very good point jwt @75.
February 8th, 2013 at 10:04 pm
Kinda makes me think of Guerena…I wonder if one of the cops tripped causing a ND.
February 9th, 2013 at 12:38 am
It’s almost as though LAPD is challenging the NYPD for worst marksmanship crown.
February 9th, 2013 at 12:52 am
@78 – They could host an invitational, olympic-style non-shooting competition and show it on ESPN. That’d be a hoot to watch.
Just imagine – the nations worst shooters competing all in one place?
February 9th, 2013 at 7:44 am
@72: Well, if they can hold legal gun owners responsible for the actions of a very few and try to take our rights away because of it, we can hold the entire police department responsible for a few dumbasses with poor marksmanship skills that shoot first and ask questions later; can’t we?
February 9th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
@74 ok and I am a combat veteran and I disagree with you, just because someone is a vet doesn’t mean they think a certain way, most of the vets I know are pretty liberal but they are also in their 20s so alot of it is generational.
I have a pretty healthy dislike for liberals and conservatives since I found dudeism and pacifism.
February 10th, 2013 at 8:19 pm
@81 – Brilliant.
February 10th, 2013 at 8:59 pm
Simply must ask – did none of the cops who shot at this truck notice that the driver was either throwing newspapers onto people’s lawns or placing them in a paper box at the curb? Seems like if any of them watched the vehicle long enough to notice that it was driving slowly and stopping from time to time they would have figured out what was going on.
February 10th, 2013 at 9:24 pm
@83 – One would like to wish they did, but it’s not likely. I saw somewhere where the LAPD chief wants to investigate the Dorner dismissal. Not sure what that will accomplish.
He needs to focus on investigating this shooting, and take another look at training and marksmanship, though.
February 10th, 2013 at 9:27 pm
Hey, ‘The Dude’, just because a guys in MENSA, doesn’t make him smart. Fobbit…