Jesse MacBeth trashes IVAW [Jonn]
Jesse MacBeth, the poster child of the phony soldier movement, and I find common ground. I’ll admit I know what MacBeth says in this video isn’t completely true, because it’s Jesse MacBeth, for Pete’s sake.
However, he admits that IVAW had his DD214 and they helped him forge the DD214 he tried to pass off as proof of his combat experience. For those of you who haven’t seen his real DD214, here it is, courtesy of our friends at POW Network;
I’ve always wondered about the DD214 forgery because MacBeth probably doesn’t have the brains to forge his DD214. But he also calls into question the character of service and the narratives coming from IVAW members.
He also says “higher ups” helped him perpetrate his fraud on themedia. He doesn’t name the “higher ups”, but at the time he inflicted himself on the stage, that could only mean the Veterans For Peace and VVAW clowns who were running the organization behind the scenes.
Now, MacBeth also claims that some IVAW members were discussing bombings. I don’t believe that at all - unless he wants to give us names, dates and places of these discussions.
Well, here’s the video on YouTube he apparently made just last week;
Like I said, you can’t believe MacBeth completely, he’s an habitual liar. However, he makes some of the same points I have proven on this blog. It’ll probably be quite some time before we get disillusioned IVAW former-members coming out publicly, so this all we’ve got for now.
Thanks to Skye at Flopping Aces and The Paratrooper of Love, Blackfive for the links.
ADDED: There’s another video I didn’t think was important the first time, but since MacBeth still draws a crowd here it is;
And, for extra entertainment, TSO’s comments that MacBeth deleted at the YouTube link;
He’s starting to monitor comments, but I got a few good ones in there
jessemacbeth (8 minutes ago) Reply
i suspect ur another ivaw idiot who dont like being exposed breing all your ivaw buddies here let them see the video and the others i am making exposing what frauds you all aree5infantry (12 minutes ago) 0 Reply | Spam
OMFG, this gets better by the second! You tried to kill yourself with aspirin?Same shit with me, only I tried to kill myself with Preparation H and Flintstones vitamins.
e5infantry (13 minutes ago) 0 Reply | Spam
Dude, this is the greatest video eveh. You are such a dipshit it is astonishing. You had me at “crusted blood”. You show ‘em RoughRider!e5infantry (16 minutes ago) 0 Reply | Spam
I suspect you may be going back to jail, if I am not mistaken, your eyebrows are actually a protected species of caterpiller. Which makes sense since apparently gypsy moths have been feasting on your brains for years.
He goes on to tell Army Sergeant that he’s got a book deal in the works and that he’s going to spill the beans on IVAW in a big expose`. It reminds me of a nerd slap-fight.
January 4th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Let me translate this for you.
“I’m Jesse Macbeth. I’m a fucking loser, who faked shit and got convicted and went to jail. IVAW kicked my fucking loser ass out for being a damn liar, so now I’m mad. I’m innocent! Really! It’s all IVAW’s fault!”
Man. If fucking assault was legal, I would pay for some plane tickets to make sure Jesse Macbeth was missing some teeth.
He is such a fucking liar, and that shit pisses me off. The only thing that might be true is that they gave him a banner or flew him places, because lots of people get flown all over the place. Joes with no story get flown all over. Yeah, you’re right Jesse, we don’t trust you, because you are a damn liar who didn’t make it out of boot camp.
*cue incoherent rage*
January 4th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
“Now, MacBeth also claims that some IVAW members were discussing bombings. I don’t believe that at all - unless he wants to give us names, dates and places of these discussions.”
Unless Jesse was referring to the Wobbly Nomad, which is indeed very old news. I doubt the IVAW would include him in the planning, if there were any.
January 4th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Well, there aren’t. I’m not sure if I’d count as one of the ‘IVAW leaders’ or what have you, but I do a damn lot of work and run a committee. And I can categorically tell you that never, ever, has any IVAW meeting or plan or operation or anything even remotely connected even posed the question of doing something like that. Jesse Macbeth is once again smoking crack and lashing out to try to make himself more relevant and less of a loser.
January 4th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Where does IVAW get its money?
Jonn wrote: Well, about a year ago, I found some Warren Buffet money going to IVAW.
January 4th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I’m not sure if I’d count as one of the ‘IVAW leaders’ or what have you, but I do a damn lot of work and run a committee.
All of which you disclose during your security clearance vetting interview.
January 4th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Where does IVAW get its money?
I’d ask AS for a full disclosure.
January 4th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Skye: Yes, I did disclose it during my security interview. I don’t hide what I do-hell, it’s publicly out there.
As for where IVAW gets its money, some of it is grants, a majority of it is smaller donors and chapters doing fundraisers. Some chapters have concerts, house parties, write-ins, challenges…there are a lot of different ideas that different chapters come up with. Sometimes it’s speaking engagements-honorariums and such for providing speakers. Far from having IVAW cover people’s rent, as Macbeth is somehow claiming, most IVAW members end up spending a lot of their own money to get around. Personally, for example, I spent a large portion of one of my reenlistment bonuses on IVAW stuff.
January 4th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Where is the Special Additional Information? You know, the one with blocks 23 through 30. Block 23: Type of Separation, Block 24: Character Of Service just for starters.
Just kinda wonderin’ ya know.
January 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Not only is it a fake but they copied it on an office copy machine. Didn’t even have brains enough to scan it into a computer using a scanner.These people aren’t even pathetic but a drain on REAL Vets and the system.
January 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
And that’s why he went to jail, Mike.
Jonn wrote: He didn’t go to jail until he tried to use his fake DD214 to get Veteran benefits from the VA. It makes me wonder, after the embarrassment he caused IVAW, why they didn’t file some sort of fraud charges against him. Unless the IVAW had something to lose by reporting him. I’m just throwing stuff out there. By the way, I knew a MacBeth thread would get your blood pressure up - it works every time. You’re welcome.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
I would tend to agree with Jonn. Jesse may be a scumbag and a liar, but he isn’t smart enough to perpetuate fraud such as forging a 214 on his own. It is my firm belief that IVAW helped him in that regard, no matter what AS says. Hell, she really doesn’t have any credibility left in my book anyway, being as though she belongs to a group that is funded by a Communist organization and openly collaborates with the enemy. She can talk all she wants and foam at the mouth, but thats it. Her friends and her all belong in very small jail cells for the rest of their natural lives.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
We are not funded by a communist organization, nor do we collaborate with the enemy. You know not whereof you speak. I haven’t done anything illegal to send me to jail, unless you think that the good old US of A needs to start jailing people for political beliefs now…
January 4th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Uh, huh, Jonn already blogged about this AS. VFP is a Commie front, and y’all definitely DO collaborate with the enemy. Try Geoff’s little show of support for Hamas, and for the Israeli kids, plus Code Pink, his trips to Iraq, etc. And no, I just think that the US needs to start jailing people for Collaboration, Subversion, Treason etc. Time was that those were all criminal offenses. Tough shit, y’all are criminals. Deal with it.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
“We are not funded by a communist organization, nor do we collaborate with the enemy.”
You do get funding from various communist entities, and the IVAW newsletter does appear quite regularly on a website set up FOR the insurgents. Now, since no one has issued a cease and desist letter on the basis of Copyright Infringement, I would say the second is at least arguable. As for the first…..IVAW members are continually published in Worker’s World, no? So, while I can’t say you get direct funding, since you shroud your money situation, it’s fairly obvious that you get space donated in the paper etc from them.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
thats exactly my point TSO, they may not receive direct funding, but they still get funding from organizations connected to Communist organizations.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
“We are not funded by a communist organization, nor do we collaborate with the enemy.”
You might not be funded by communists, AS, but IVAW is afffilated with Veterans for Peace (per the website) who is affiliated with and marches with Communist front groups like International ANSWER and United for Peace & Justice.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
A/S,
Let me add one big clarification to your translation.
IVAW had no interest in outting this fraud untill outside pressure from people on our side of the issues was applied.
IVAW would have been happy to continue had no questions been asked.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Exactly, which is why they have absolutely NO credibility.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Marooned in Marin,
IVAW was founded by the VVAW pukes . That they were hiding out at VFP and using VFP’s 501(3)c is a smokescreen.
IVAW are the puppets of the VVAW. The daming evidence for that conclusion is that the IVAW protests are all re-runs of the VVAW crap from the 60s/70s, right down to the lies of Winter Soldier.
But the IVAW pukes can’t name the VVAW protest they are re-enacting. Not one is intellectually curious enough to even care to listen.
January 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
A/S,
You forgot to mention the keggers. Lots of IVAW functions invlolve alcohol, especially when you clowns are recruiting.
January 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Lol, so THATS how they do it!
January 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
I’ll point out that most military functions involve alcohol too. And every VFW post I’ve been to has ridiculously cheap beer. It’s not uncommon with veterans’ organizations.
Jonn wrote: Typical Army Sergeant (the IVAW member not the service). Respond to the only question you can answer and ignore the ones you can’t. I’m pretty sure you know Darnell Stephen Summers, the fellow I wrote about a while back, since he’s over there in Germany and works closely with your folks. He came by here yesterday and admitted he’s a commie.
Whether you get money from them or not is fairly irrelevant. Heck, I’ve seen your articles posted on Workers’ World. Even if you don’t get money directly from them, you get access to their assets. The DC Chapter of IVAW having Karaoke Night with Code Pink - founded by Medea Benjamin, the pro-Castro founder of Global Exchange (She said that the move from America to Castro’s island nation made her feel “like I died and went to heaven.”) . Lately, every time I see Medea, Millard is right behind. She ought not stop too abruptly.
If I could prove that you’re getting money from Commies, I would, but in the interim, I can prove your connections to communists.
January 4th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
AS-
Now you are grasping. The people here have pointed out that organizations you support/work for do indeed get money from communistic entities and you are still denying that it occurs. C’mon. There is nothing worse than a soldier claiming to stand up for something and turning a blind eye. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical? You are against the war, serving in the Military and claim to be be a patriot. I guess I am John F-ing Carry stoopid to think that support of IVAW?VFP with communist money is promoting what you stand for?
January 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
A/S,
“We are not funded by a communist organization, nor do we collaborate with the enemy.”
Thompson Bradley is a Marxist and has collaborated with the enemy. I have his word on that.
January 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Who is Thompson Bradley?
January 4th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
TSO said” You do get funding from various communist entities
I’d argue this is more distasteful than illegal.
Trying to hide the sources is an IRS issue, and perhaps actionable? Aiding and abetting our legal enemies is beyond the pale, and I like to think that the FBI is aware.
But just getting money from communists, or providing stories to the communist media doesn’t appear to rise to the level of a crime from this layman’s seat. (it does activate my gag reflex though)
January 4th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I don’t think it is illegal, just that AS was saying they were not funded by commies.
As for the funding, they are entitled to keep their funding quiet by virtue of their tax status.
January 4th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
You know whats funny AS? My VFW Post has NEVER had a bar, and NEVER will have one. We also do not allow smoking inside the Post Home. It has been like that for 60 years. We find both distracting, they make the meetings less productive. Don’t try to bring a decent Veteran’s organization such as VFW down to the level of a shitbag group such as VFP and IVAW. You are still a MISERABLE excuse for an NCO. Do us all a favor and turn in your stripes if you are so against the military and the war. Turn in your stripes and ask for a discharge, or conscientious objector status if you so dislike everything AS.
January 4th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
And as for the funding issue with IVAW and VFP, the word I believe everyone is looking for is not illegal, the word is IMMORAL.
January 4th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
I don’t hide what I do-hell, it’s publicly out there.
You purposely and consistently misrepresent IVAW on comment threads on numerous blogs, yet we are supposed to believe that you are telling the truth during your clearance review?
Perhaps after maintaining the lie of IVAW, you no longer can judge truth from fiction.
January 4th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Skye, thats one of the requirements for membership in IVAW, an inability to judge fact from fiction.
January 4th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
[...] The IVAW overworked and underpaid water carrier, Army Sergeant is there as well. Jonn Lilyea of This Ain’t Hell has more on this story of the breakup between Jesse and IVAW, including a copy of the real DD214. [...]
January 4th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Comin’ in late, here; but I just now watched this fagboys video. I wasn’t within a hundred miles of wherever it was that he started basic training, but I will say, declare, and state: Jesse McBeth was not tortured in Basic training, neither on nor off duty. If he or anyone else cares to debate my statement, bring it on, and bring your evidence with you. I would call him a pussy, but my nieces were able to complete basic training, jump school, and more. That would denigrate the fairer sex. I believe that he and his bunk buddy conjured up any story that he chooses to put forth, and the only torture was the denial of his right to get on his knees to his bunk buddy. Jesse McBeth is a Lyin’ sorry excuse for a male, and appears to be a flamin’ fagboy. If he weren’t so pathetic, his story would be humorous. Seems he just didn’t realize that basic trainees would be expected to conduct themselves as humans.
IVAW, its members, and its cause suck; but Jesse McBeth couldn’t even qualify to be one of “them”.
nuf sed
January 4th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
I don’t trust anything that F*cktard McBeth says, but that doesn’t take anything away from the fact that Army Sergeant and her ilk are treasonous cowards and should be in jail.
January 4th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Now let me get this straight.
IVAW was instrumental in bringing MacBeth into the spotlight. From my perspective it certainly appears they were willing to give him a platform, let alone corroborate the story.
Now A/S is on here talking about assaulting him, and having had him kicked out of IVAW?
Sure. Nice try.
January 4th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
A/S,
“I’ll point out that most military functions involve alcohol too. ”
Nice try to slip the punch, but Army recruiters aren’t allowed to routinely (or non-routinely) use alcohol to attract or entice recruits.
IVAW definitely does.
Let’s see how many people turn out when IVAW isn’t offering free food and booze plus a concert.
January 4th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
A/S,
“Who is Thompson Bradley?”
One of the VFP mentors of the IVAW.
The old guy who looks like Col Sanders, wears a “signature jaunty beret, red scarf and mirrored aviator sunglasses.”
He was the Clipbiard Commando that threatened TSO at Winter Soldier 2.1
He IS a Marxist, he did collaborate with the NVA and NLF in September 1968 and not all that long ago told Latin America that he was ashamed of the USA.
Tell Thompson he can’t be as ashamed of the USA as the USA is of him.
Heard of Cathy Wilkerson, the SDS/Weather Underground member who’s father’s town house exploded as they manufactured bombs for an NCO dance at Fort Dix?
He was the campus radical professor while she attended Swathmore.
Circa 2004, she mentions him in her book, he reviewed her book for Swathmore’s newletter and they both were on a panel discussing their glory days.
And that part about KILLING NCOs at Fort Dix, 24 years since the attempt they haven’t realized that KILLING US soldiers is a bad thing.
Her book discusses her SDS cell decided to KILLING NCOs without any debate or objection. They only thing where there was discussion was what method would not only KILL NCOs and make the NCOs suffer the most.
And by the way, at least two Democrat led committees in Congress investigated him for subversion.
BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE…when he came back from “Meeting The Vietnamese”, he made the case that the Viet Cong program of terror, where they went into villages and publically executed government officials and village leaders was the moral thing to do. Assainations.
But that same bastard will go to Fort Benning and accuse our Soldiers of teaching assasination to foreign troops.
January 4th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Lucky,
VFP’s fundraising probably is illegal, at least the $500,000 collected by VFP in the name of Katrina victims.
Checkout the info on that at “Sweetness and Light” in the blog list here.
There has never been a public accounting of that fundraiing.
BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE…and the VFP says they sent the Katrina victims fund $50,000 to make up for what they mismanaged.
So A/S should ask VFP for the accounting and the report on why VFP decided it needed to cut a $50,000 check. Then maybe the scales will fall from her eyes.
January 4th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Former corpsman: I personally did not have him thrown out of IVAW, other members did. It was before my time. Nor did I assault Jesse Macbeth: I said I WISH assault was legal so that I could do it, but he is not worth my going to jail over. WIshes, last time I checked, aren’t illegal.
Raoul: That’s because they’re targeting different audiences. Recruiters are targeting non-Army. IVAW are talking to veterans, who are a much harder drinking group of individuals. Also, do you have a photo of this guy? I was way too angry at Winter Soldier to pay attention to who exactly I was yelling at. I remember that someone was there spouting ridiculous shit, but it was kind of a red haze. All I remember was TSO trying to vaguely calm me down while looking really amused at the whole thing.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:27 am
I will check that out Raoul, thanks for the tip! And IVAW doesn’t serve alcohol at their rallies, they serve tainted ass Kool Aid. Booyah.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:38 am
A/S,
“That’s because they’re targeting different audiences. Recruiters are targeting non-Army. IVAW are talking to veterans, who are a much harder drinking group of individuals.”
Oh Puleeze….
IVAW supplies enough alcohol that regardless of the person’s tolerance, they are compromised.
The Army has a policy against recruiters getting recruits drunk. REGARDLESS OF AGE. IVAW routinely gets recruits drunk. REGARDLESS OF AGE.
Nice try, be sure to enjoy playing the home version of our show…
As far as Thompson Bradley, he’s the guy who always walked around or stood with his legs apart like he’s got a load in his pants. It’s pretty distinctive.
PS: We waterboarded his ass and he gave up the 11 herbs and spices in 45 seconds.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:40 am
A/S,
No qualms about IVAW getting their tax exempt status from VFP, where VFP has admitted to irreglaurities in their Katrina fund raising?
I’ll wait…
January 5th, 2009 at 6:58 am
Raoul:
I stand by what I was taught as a young Army soldier. If you’re old enough to carry a gun and potentially die for your country, you are old enough to drink. I think it is an obscenity that some bleeding hearts managed to get it the other way around. You’re responsible enough to kill, but not to consume alcohol? Ridiculous.
Also, I’m not sure where you’re coming up with statements about the quantity of IVAW alcohol consumption, given that I don’t think you’re exactly hanging around IVAW parties/get-togethers-and I firmly maintain you won’t see any more alcohol there than other soldier/vet get-togethers.
Also, IVAW has its own tax-exempt application in process and as soon as it goes through, we won’t need VFP’s status anymore. I’m not sure how VFP had anything to do with Katrina, though, as it’s not a war, but I don’t doubt it.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Wait, so AS actually remembers what she was taught as a Soldier, or is it selective memory? She can remember the WTT stuff, but apparently not ANY of the Core Values. Nice, really nice.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Lucky:
I can remember all of the Army Core Values. In fact, I wrote an article for SITREP about how they support my membership in IVAW. If you’d like, I can send it to you…
January 5th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Hey, some of the original VVAW crew thought bombings and killings were a good idea. Why put it past the new guys?
January 5th, 2009 at 9:43 am
In a nutshell, this how the funding works for the VVAW/VVAW-IA/VFP and IVAW. The box I was using for my research went down, I am reconstructing from my notebooks and memory.
True some funds (very minute) do in fact come from individual donations. The super funding of these groups comes from TIDES Foundation, it’s affiliated operating entities TIDES Center, Inc (financial services)and TIDES Underdog Fund.
Once the IVAW floated to surface, the VFP via the TIDES Foundation approval loaned their 503(c)status to IVAW. TIDES provides every penny for such operations up to and including incorporation under their guidance.
TIDES Center loans or grants these groups the operating capital. That provides salaries for the higher level IVAW office and managerial staffs. It pays for posters, uniforms, flags, banners, travel to selected events, tax and legal services ect.
For that, the National Lawyers Guild (ACLU) steps in.
Any additional funding does get derived from outside sources such as any of the Soros operations, labor unions and yes, some the mighty rich that have now learned to funnel their funds for such activities to TIDES. That way, their butts aren’t so likely to be exposed to scrutiny.
The Communist Party, (CPUSA) is hot and heavy into helping fund (that includes donating space on related websites), arranging for interviews, book tours and training.
That’d be hardcore, activist training and going about nitiating a direct action such as what his name getting stomped on by that police horse up in NY a while back.
In any footage out from the DNC and RNC events you were looking at the IVAW’s putting into practice what they have been taught by a leading, not afraid to hurt, main, injure people to get their point across environmental activist group.
I do fully anticipate IVAW to ramp up direct actions….
January 5th, 2009 at 10:09 am
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January 5th, 2009 at 11:09 am
A/S,
Oh Puleeze….
[I stand by what I was taught as a young Army soldier. If you’re old enough to carry a gun and potentially die for your country, you are old enough to drink. I think it is an obscenity that some bleeding hearts managed to get it the other way around. You’re responsible enough to kill, but not to consume alcohol? Ridiculous.]
Nice irrelevant strawman you’re parachuted into the discussion, but sorry, no sale.
We weren’t talking about that topic at all. That’s why people here do not trust and therefore do not respect you.
The subject was that IVAW will spread all the counter-recruiting talking points about questionable recruiting practices, all while IVAW entices people they are recruiting for their cause via a free lunch, a free concert and mass quantities of alcohol.
[Also, I’m not sure where you’re coming up with statements about the quantity of IVAW alcohol consumption, given that I don’t think you’re exactly hanging around IVAW parties/get-togethers-and I firmly maintain you won’t see any more alcohol there than other soldier/vet get-togethers.]
If you consider that level acceptable, you need to get counseling.
I’m not doing your work for free. You can buy my book when it comes out.
But from now on, everyone here knows about my observation and can compare what they see (past and future) regarding IVAW and booze versus what you claim. You’re not going to win this point.
[Also, IVAW has its own tax-exempt application in process and as soon as it goes through, we won’t need VFP’s status anymore. I’m not sure how VFP had anything to do with Katrina, though, as it’s not a war, but I don’t doubt it.]
I translate that as “By any means necessary”.
So until you get your own 501(3)c, it’s OK to associate with questionable people.
Again, VFP are the IVAW’s mentors. IVAW’s formation was announced at the VFP Convention in Boston 2004, VFP people work as volunteers at IVAW HQ. If you don’t know that, I want a rebate of my portion of what you’re paid to fill an MI MOS. I refuse to believe that you are that clueless about an organization to which you devote so much time and effort.
And the part about “Katrina was was not a war, so you don’t know what VFP had to do with it” is especially stupid. WTF were VFP and IVAW doing down in NOLA then? That whole “Marching To New Orleans” protest. The little duck that wakes up to a whole new world every morning routine of yours is wearing very thin.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But wait, there’s more…of course you’d try to gloss over the communists in the VFP, so for extra credit (or credibility) name the title of the Communist Party article the VFP is touting to its’ members?
Can you name the Communist for which one of the VFP Chapters is named?
January 5th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Army Sergeant:
The Army Security folks must be getting lax with regard to off-duty affiliations. The fact that the IVAW is rife with unethical shitbags should send up all kinds of red flags.
The fact that you’re a member doesn’t speak well for you either.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
So, Macbeth’s sudden attack of conscience didn’t happen until he went to jail for using his doctored DD214 to get Veteran benefits from the VA? Anyone who fabricates information on their DD214, should automatically face charges.
He mistook the “none//nothing follows” parts on the document as ‘fill in the blanks’.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Lets face it people, the IVAW is nothing without the VVAW and VFP …anyone who was at the so called IVAW Winter Soldier hearings knows there was a script being followed. It is a shame that these little boys of the IVAW were recruited and pushed into the spotlight (what little of it there was) The VVAW was out in force controlling what was said and who was there to ask questions… The whole fact of the matter is this. The IVAW,VVAW and VFP are maybe 5% Infantry MOS’s the majority of these organizations let anyone join weather they even served in a war zone or not…so what MacBeth has to say has much truth to it weather he has lied in the past or not makes no difference your whole organizations have lied in the past!!!….AMEN
All of you lowlifes try to find some other way to get into the spotlight of life…I wouldn’t waste my spit on any of you traitors…that’s not just traitors to your country that’s traitors to your brothers who GAVE ALL.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
AS, as I stated earlier, I don’t rightly care what you use to justify your sad meaningless existence. Every day you remain a member of IVAW, you betray the Army Values, and become that much bigger a disgrace to the uniform and the NCO Corps. If you feel so strongly on the War and about the President, take a more appropriate response, ask for an early discharge, ask to become a conscientious objector, turn in your stripes. Any of those would be acceptable. Every day you continue your sad, used up, repetitive dialogue, you become an even bigger affront to the moral sensibilities of every Patriotic American, and to the men and women in uniform doing a job you apparently do not wish to do anymore. You are an empty uniform.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
AS,
“I said I WISH assault was legal so that I could do it, but he is not worth my going to jail over. WIshes, last time I checked, aren’t illegal.”
Be real carefuul with that one. You’re skating very close to the “Hate Crimes” provisions that Progressives ™ so love to invoke. Your comrades seek to make many wishes illegal.
As for quibbles about who is, or is not an actual Communist. They have a long and dishonorable tradition of sheep-dipping themselves before doing deeds that might be unpopular or illegal. Ramon Mercader, the Not-a-Commie who assissinated Trotsky, after his release from a Mexican prison was welcomed into the USSR and given a medal. And then there are those Cheap-Charlies who cheat The Party of Dues. And in a tu quoque moment, when as the Left evr shown the least care or precision about whom they call a fascist?
January 5th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Rurik,
You’re right, you can go to jail for what you’re thinking…if the liberals get their way.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:22 am
SHOT OUT:
From the IVAW website: Logan M. Laituri was sent as the IVAW Ambassador to Marxism 2008 in Sydney. • IVAW Down Under, 3/29/2008 1835hrs http://www.ivaw.org/membersspeak/ivaw-down-under
AS, the IVAW is a communist support organization.
FIRE FOR EFFECT:
They are traitors, liars, and apparently forgers. They know no loyalty to Nation, the Military, nor even their own lying membership.
Read the words of one their CSM’s here: http://csmvanguard.blogspot.com/
BTW: He was also in charge of the first MOH recipient of the war, is a true hero, purple star recipient, and a blue star father, as well as in charge of a yellow-bellied future IVAW lying traitor.
To understand how people like AS are used or users, read this: http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/politics_of_peace/
At least Code Stinkos have a substantiated claim to their ignorance. The only thing worse than more lies from MacBeth are the lies perpetuated in defense of the traitorous IVAW. He’s too ignorant and undereducated to have forged his 214. The IVAW was complicit and likely a partner in that fraud and forgery.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:37 am
by Logan M. Laituri | Mar 29 2008 - 6:35pm
“Flying to DC to participate in the historic Winter Soldier hearings, I had one thing on my mind; airplanes. …and the 20+ hours aboard which I had to look forward to directly following the events at the National Labor College. I would be headed to Australia to participate in Marxism 2008 as an IVAW ambassador…Finally, it would be absurd to consider this a personal endeavor, as I filled a request through, for, and by the organization as a whole, and I behaved accordingly…”
From the link listed above.
January 6th, 2009 at 7:11 am
wanna see a “real” dd214
http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/ANG22.gif
lol as if!
January 6th, 2009 at 8:08 am
WOTN: I went to the links you mentioned, but I’m unsure what you were hoping for me to get through them. CSM Vanguard hasn’t posted anything about the IVAW lately, and the link you sent me about how I’m being used’s last post was a movie review. Are you talking about specific posts? Can you link them if so? Also, Logan in his members speak is very open about how he disagrees with Marxists and his impression of them is usually reactionary-that he was trying to explain his own personal way of nonviolence (and also that it didn’t receive great support there). Logan is a true Christian in every sense of the word, and I don’t read his statement as IVAW support for Marxism.
Rurik: Wasn’t Trotsky a Communist also? Man, sometime when I get more time I really need to look into all this. And, uh, the concept of thoughtcrime is doubleplusungood.
I think that’s one of the great concepts about America, that you can think what you like as long as you don’t harm others with it by putting your thoughts to action. If that starts slipping, I’m going to have more work to do defending the Constitution here…
Lucky: I am not a conscientious objector: I believe that war is sometimes necessary, and I would kill to protect my loved ones and their way of life. I’d be regretful about it, but I would do it. Would I accept an early discharge if the Army just walked over and handed me one with no hard feelings? I honestly don’t know. But I have done nothing wrong, and to the best of my knowledge, the Army doesn’t want me gone.
GI Jane: I believe he didn’t decide to claim he was sorry and was just misled by mysteeeeeerious IVAW members until after he went to jail and was apparently offered a book deal. So he thinks he can make money off of it. However, I’m curious: isn’t there some rule that prohibits people from profiting off of their crimes? I’ve heard this but am not sure if it’s actually law. If so, then I think someone should contact the publisher and find out where the profits are going. As for IVAW affiliations, the majority of members are either actively serving or honorably discharged. You see a few individuals who have not done the right thing because they’re the biggest and most dramatic stories for Jonn. He doesn’t do stories on the ones who just quietly work for change…
Raoul: I guess it all depends on whether you think people have good motivations or not. I’ll buy a veteran a beer and a lunch. Am I doing it because I think that someone’s going to join IVAW just because I bought lunch, or am I doing it because the ingrained habit for the last eight years is to buy lunch and beer for others when I am flush with cash and they are not? I’ve been bought beer and lunch by members of other vet groups as well. Were they doing it because it’s part of predatory recruiting tactics for IAVA and VFF? Or was it just a lunch and a beer?
You have to remember that a lot of the movers and shakers in IVAW are members of the NCO corps, or were. There are a few principles you get drilled into you-one of which being you need to feed your soldiers, especially if you have an event going on. BOSS meeting? Feed them. FRG day? Feed them. Company outing? Feed them. Make sure your soldiers have full stomachs at all times and the world goes smoother. Again, these are habits that you get into and that carry over into the IVAW world.
As for whether the amount of alcohol consumed at IVAW events is “healthy”? It may not be, but neither is the amount consumed at Army Hail and Farewells. Soldiers and veterans in general tend to be pretty hard-drinking. I never claimed alcohol use was minimal, just that it’s not any more than you’d see from a bunch of joes in the barracks going for a night out.
(Sidenote: Is EVERYONE writing a book?)
Streetsweeper: Are you seriously trying to tell people that the Communist Party encouraged IVAW members to march in formation and maintain military discipline? I don’t know what you’re talking about with any kind of violence, I was at the RNC /and/ the DNC and the IVAW-only activities were incredibly disciplined and remarkably peaceful. The police even thanked us afterwards at both events.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:06 am
A/S; It was meant in a generic fashion since my other box is down and I have everything on it. I forewarned that I had to reconstruct from memory and what I’d jotted down in notebooks….
I stand by my line of thought. Someone, somewhere at some time will escalate the direct actions.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Then, there is only one option AS, turn in your Stripes, you will never be able to change the fact that you are a miserable excuse for an NCO. I bet you take pleasure in exerting undue command influence over your Joes. Do you make them come with you to protest? That seems to be the thing to do among the crazies who protest outside Walter Reed, most of the protesters are forced to be there by their bosses. Turn in your Stripes AS, its the only HONORABLE choice you have left. You are acting like a spoiled little SPC, might as well be one…
January 6th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Lucky:
Sadly for you, I have never given IVAW materials to any soldier underneath me, nor have I brought any of them to protests. Sorry I wasn’t unethical enough for you.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
You are still incredibly unethical, and should still turn in your Stripes. You gave up your right to call yourself a Sergeant when you started colluding with the traitorous dogs who call themselves IVAW.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Yes AS, Trotsky was a Communist, at least until he got into a rivalry with Stalin over who was to be Lenin’s successor, lost the fight and was expelled from the Communist Party and the USSR. That feud was less about details of Marxist doctrine than of personal antagonisms and ambitions. It fact, it seems to me a useful metaphor for understanding some of the recent feuds in the Demo Party - minus the killing (so far at least). But my focus, which you seem to have avoided, was on his assassin, who made sure to clear himself of any official tie to the CPSU before going off to do a deed the Party clearly wanted done. Arthur Koestler was another famous individual who kept his Party membership secret while working under Party orders. Secret Party membership was never a myth, but often a reality. Heck, it might even include some MSM individuals for all we know.
And yes, “Hate Crime”, beloved on the Left, is a category solely dependent on what the offender was believed to be thinking/feeling at the time she/he/it commited some other offense. Its already on the statute books in many states.
January 6th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
“Former corpsman: I personally did not have him thrown out of IVAW, other members did. It was before my time. Nor did I assault Jesse Macbeth: I said I WISH assault was legal so that I could do it, but he is not worth my going to jail over. WIshes, last time I checked, aren’t illegal.”
I wish I could dip you in salt.
January 6th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
You want to use her as a margarita glass?
January 6th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
“WOTN: I went to the links you mentioned, but I’m unsure what you were hoping for me to get through them. CSM Vanguard hasn’t posted anything about the IVAW lately, and the link you sent me about how I’m being used’s last post was a movie review. Are you talking about specific posts?”
CSM Vanguard is a proud, patriotic and disciplined NCO(ret) who has served his Nation for decades and sacrificed much. He has had the honor of serving with an MoH recipient and the disheartening reality of learning one of his troops turned to dishonor in seeking his 15 minutes of fame. If he decides to never utter another word about the coward or the organization he joined, he has done his part. His account stands on the merit of his honorable service.
If you are interested in learning of how you are being used (or reading the outing of how you use others), go to the beginning: http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2008/09/disruption-for.html and read the entire series and then the follow-on articles. Watch the Movie. It’s great comedy with a Pro-American lesson, an oddity for Hollywood.
It may have taken time in jail to get through to MacBeth, but he is smart enough to realize he was used. He may be a pathological liar, but not even a dog likes to be beat by its master and he has turned on his.
“Logan is a true Christian in every sense of the word, and I don’t read his statement as IVAW support for Marxism. ”
You don’t need to read it that way. He states his trip was endorsed officially by YOUR masters. The same “leadership” that embraced MacBeth until he was outted and then threw him under the bus.
Here’s the bottom line: If you don’t know why you’re fighting for democracy while you support its enemy, then you need to get out of the Army. We have given the Iraqi people the ability to peaceably choose their leaders, something they could not have attained against the brutal tyrant nor the terrorists that attempted to replace him. Your organization opposes that not out of common ground with the American nor Iraqi people but out of an alliance of convenience with tyrants and the terrorists who desire to become tyrants and simple political expediency.
January 6th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
A/S,
Another question and/or observation. The official IVAW posted requirements to join IVAW are:
===============================
IVAW welcomes all post-9/11 veterans and active duty servicemen and women from all branches of military service, National Guard members, and reservists who support this mission to join our ranks.
Please provide verification of service, click here for the acceptable paperwork.
Verification of Service
A copy of one of the following (feel free to black out personal info such as social security number) must accompany your membership form:
DD 214
Military Photo identification
Unit Move Order indicating service dates and locations
Medal, award, or certificate of recognition
Paperwork from Veterans Administration
===============================
It appears that Jesse MacBeth was, and is still, eligible to be a IVAW member. What policy of IVAW did he violate? Inquiring minds want to know.
January 6th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
A/S,
A review of the official IVAW website and the listed qualifications for membership show no reason that Jesse MacBeth can’t be a member. He meets all the qualifications. No where does it state what type of discharge is required.
Wouldn’t that be considered discrimination? Are there a set of bylaws in existence that are not posted?
January 6th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
ummm i think lying and misrepresenting your service, especially when your in a group of vets.. should be grounds for removal of any organization. MacBeth is not the first veteran my age to be outted as a liar and he won’t be the last!
January 6th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
If an Honorable Discharge was required for IVAW membership, over half of the members would be ineligible for membership in the organization. Nice try AS, but your organization can’t even avoid lying to itself. Wow, and I thought y’all were just crazy. This takes Sociopath to a whole new level.
January 6th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
WS
Macbeth does meet the qualifications listed on the website the way it’s stated:
“IVAW welcomes all post-9/11 veterans and active duty servicemen and women from all branches of military service, National Guard members, and reservists who support this mission to join our ranks.”
and…
“Verification of Service
A copy of one of the following (feel free to black out personal info such as social security number) must accompany your membership form:
DD 214
Military Photo identification
Unit Move Order indicating service dates and locations
Medal, award, or certificate of recognition
Paperwork from Veterans Administration ”
According to your website he’s eligible?
January 7th, 2009 at 3:44 am
1st Cav:
IVAW doesn’t post every list of rules publicly on the website, no, but mischaracterization of military service/fraud is actually against our Code of Conduct and can be (and has been) grounds for removal.
Also, as he never made it out of basic training, he is not actually a veteran and thus not eligible.
January 7th, 2009 at 3:46 am
TSO:
Well, it would fit in with Raoul’s talk about the Way of the Alcohol..
January 7th, 2009 at 11:12 am
A/S,
[Well, it would fit in with Raoul’s talk about the Way of the Alcohol..]
The topic is IVAW hypocrisy, not alcohol.
Keep up or take notes.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
VFP offers IVAW members a year’s free membership in VFP.
But then again, VFP has awfully low standards. Even I qualify for full VFP membership even though I’ve never been AWOL, court marshalled, deserted or committed treason.
January 9th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
TSO
“You want to use her as a margarita glass?”
Actually, pretzel was running through my mind when I posted that.
That is how the story was being twisted.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
AS, even if he never made it out of BCT, the Veterans Administration would still provide him benefits, that is, only if he was discharged with a Line of Duty injury.
January 10th, 2009 at 7:35 am
Lucky,
Really? That’s crazy, I had no idea.
That said, I’m pretty sure Macbeth walked away with a Failure To Adapt, or its equivalent.
Also, he can’t handle criticism very well, he’s been deleting comments left and right on his little youtube videos.
January 10th, 2009 at 9:07 am
A/S,
Lucky said “Line of Duty”.
Focus, like a laser beam. It helps.
January 10th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Raoul,
Yes, I accepted that I was ignorant in the situation and did not know that LOD injuries in basic still got VA benefits. I just wanted to emphasize that even if it was, Macbeth’s wasn’t LOD.
January 10th, 2009 at 11:49 am
@Army Sergeant:
There seem to be a buttload of fakes, frauds, and document altering among those
“mysteeeeeerious IVAW members”. There’s not just a rule but a LAW forbiding the unauthorized alteration of official documents like the DD214.
The craven, shameful IVAW members, including the ones who “just quietly work for change…” are a boil on the ass of humanity. What exactly is it that you want to change? How about the possibility of no more attacks against this country by Islamic thugs who want to change the world into a Caliphate? You want change? Work to stop the them and protect and defend this country against those who would gladly capitulate to our enemies, rather than take a stand.
With B. Hussein Obama’s plan to ‘negotiate without preconditions’you’ll get “change” alright.
What kills me about all you anti-war ‘activists’ is your total disregard of the reasons we are fighting in the Middle East, as well as a lack of your own response (surrender doesn’t count) to the terrorist attacks and the Islamic threat. If you’d like, I can re-post everything I’ve cited on Saddam’s U.N. violations, discovered WMDs, and terrorist affiliations as well as Afghanistan’s role in providing safe-haven for the Taliban and Al Qaeda. I can re-interate how the Middle East is a cesspool of breeding and indocrination of Islamic extremists.
But why state the obvious?
The IVAW and other groups of disgruntled children will not change the world for the better. Far from it. Like other pro-Islamist forums like the New York Times, you give aid and support to the enemy. Don’t think so?
When it comes to leftwing anti-U.S. media and organizatons, Islamic terrorists couldn’t ask for a better mouthpiece. Everytime Code Pink, A.N.S.W.E.R., or the IVAW hold anti-U.S. rallies, it resonates with terrorists. Just tune into Al Jazeera, MEMRI, or any of the other Islamic propagada sites.
They share your talking points.
January 21st, 2010 at 1:03 am
Jesse Macbeth is a liar as well as a women beater… I had the unfortunate 1st hand view of everything as he was claiming to be an Iraq vet I suffered may times through his so called “flashbacks” look up the records in Oakland CA 2006…