Mattis moves to protect military dreamers

| February 9, 2018 | 77 Comments

According to Military Times, Defense Secretary James Mattis has arrived at an agreement with Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen to protect military Dreamers;

“Anyone who is in the delayed enlistment program, in other words they are already signed up and they are waiting to go into boot camp, anyone on active duty and anyone in the active reserves and anyone with an honorable discharge is, right now, except for two possible exceptions, they will not be subject to any kind of deportation.”

“The only two exceptions would be if for some reason they have committed a serious felony, and I realize even a low-level felony apparently does not put you in that category … that could jeopardize them. They are just like any other citizen,” Mattis said.

The other exception would be “if a federal judge has signed a final order of deportation — that would be a judicial action that obviously we obey,” Mattis said.

As it should be.

Category: Big Pentagon

Comments (77)

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  1. 2/17 Air Cav says:

    “As it should be.”

  2. Ex-PH2 says:

    GEN Mattis doing it right.

    He must scare libertards to pieces.

  3. NHSparky says:

    I’m curious as to how many this would affect.

    Being illegal, they are not allowed to enlist, and if they used phony docs to make it appear they are legal, that’s fraudulent enlistment.

    So actual number affected? Pretty low. YMMV.

    • 2/17 Air Cav says:

      You ask a good question. It looks like, thanks to Trump’s immediate predecessor’s executive order, some of the so-called dreamers became un-illegal. What’s more, since dreamers included those who were at least 16, it may also be that the so-called dreamer did not come here alone, but was brought here. Then there’s the age factor and ‘illegality.’ Because a 16-year old is a minor, it may be that entering the country w/o permission does not subject him to criminal penalty as it would for an adult. I don’t know. Good question.

      • USMC Steve says:

        The problem is that Obama’s executive order was both illegal and unconstitutional. Thus the correct move would have been to refuse to comply with it. They were never legal in any sense of the word, because Federal Law didn’t allow for it. Executive orders cannot overreach or contravene existing Federal Law.

        • 2/17 Air Cav says:

          I agree with you, USMC Steve, and his act put the libs in a bind. That is, if the original executive order was illegal as a usurpation of legislative authority, then the left can’t argue (with a straight face) that Trump’s order rescinding it was illegal. Of course, no ct has decided the issue one way or the other, but the original order, by consensus of legal scholars, was illegal.

    • 11B-Mailclerk says:

      A President can grant clemency and/or pardons. That power is surprisingly vast, and SCOTUS has repeatedly upheld its use. About the only negative SCOTUS decision was to declare that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

      Presidents are, however, by longstanding custom supposed to follow some precedents on how to do so. But the Constitution does not specify the process, just that they can.

      Obama could have blanket-pardoned one, some, or all illegals, much as Carter did for draft dodgers. But he did not. Nor did he commute any future penalties. For reasons that, to me, seem like ground-prepping, he did something completely unprecedented and not at all based in law.

      Almost if he was establishing lawless dictates as the new normal…

      Lawyerly types, do please speak up.

      • 2/17 Air Cav says:

        “Almost if he was establishing lawless dictates as the new normal…” Ya think?

        You have a couple of things going on in what you wrote. Keep in mind that no president can pardon future crimes, so I suppose a president would have to spend his day pardoning every illegal as he was charged. Also, there is illegality (i.e., crime) and then there’s the administrative law side of things. So, I suppose a president could pardon X for the crime of entering the country illegally, and then the illegal’s ass can still be booted. I took immigration law in law school far too long ago. Someone may correct me on that second point.

        • 11B-Mailclerk says:

          I think once pardoned, it is permanent for sticking around.

          Note the crime charged is illegal entry, not illegal presence. A split hair, but essential I think.

          • Hondo says:

            Don’t think so. A pardon covers criminal matters, but my understanding is that deportations are an administrative proceeding. And I don’t believe a non-citizen needs to be guilty of any crime to be subject to deportation.

            Case in point: I’m pretty sure a person who comes here legally, then overstays their visa, is nonetheless subject to deportation after their visa has expired.

      • USMC Steve says:

        Additionally, the executive order in question is already dead, as Obama set a time frame in place on it. When the illegal executive order died, at that moment they all became illegals again.

    • Angry B says:

      Estimated at 850. Enlisted under the Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest (MAVNI) program. MAVNI originally had numeric caps related to enlistees’ country of origin and was designed to help services acquire very critical skills (medical, certain languages). More recently, Army used it to bolster poor recruiting numbers. Army apparently disregarded the country of origin caps and put lots of people in jobs that didn’t require any special skills. Lots of Asians used MAVNI to join the Army when Army “relaxed” the program qualifications.

  4. AW1Ed says:

    It’s called “Leadership.”

  5. 11B-Mailclerk says:

    I am noting the irony. There are illegals who are sufficiently American to write that “blank check” to Uncle Sam. Their willingness to do so is a backhand to those born here who can’t be bothered to sign up.

    • 26Limabeans says:

      “born here who can’t be bothered to sign up”
      Yet they whine about their condition and do not realize the opportunity in front of them. Military service is a great path to freedom, liberty and the American dream.
      Learn a skill set and be something.

      • MrFace says:

        Moreover, They then claim valor that wasn’t earned and then complain when caught, “Oh, I was doing it as a show of respect for [/insert fallen veteran friend here]”

        Cheers,
        MrFace

      • Thunderstixx says:

        And, it’s truly an adventure beyond their wildest dreams. Joining the US Military will pay enormous benefits for them for the rest of their lives.
        They will learn things that no civilian could ever learn no matter how many Death by Power Point seminars they attend.
        They would see things, good, bad and indifferent that perhaps few have ever seen. Although Afghanistan is a destination that seems to be on the top of most GI’s these days, there are a ton of other places they will go too…
        And I would bet that every Veteran on this page would do it all over again in a heartbeat if given the chance !!!
        Those of us that didn’t “almost join”, can spin war stories with the best that any GI has ever spun throughout the history of civilization !!!
        It is a very small club and the cost is great to join, but the payoff is incredible !!!

  6. Guard Bum says:

    Under DACA they were legal according to the executive order of Obama. Its hard to tell if he was just referring to those under DACA or all illegals.

    What is disturbing is that if they were not under DACA and enlisted they would have to have forged all kinds of documents and since everyone now needs a clearance…something went wrong.

    • USMC Steve says:

      As I mentioned above, they were not legal. Obama’s executive order was illegal and unconstitutional, so when this hits the supremes, a lot of people are going to be very unhappy about the result if the LAWS are actually applied properly.

      • 11B-Mailclerk says:

        -IF- it is argued under pardon/commutation, I think it might actually fly.

        No idea if they will do so. But if Obama “clarifies” now that he meant it as such, this could get very interesting.

        As far as I can find, no Presidential pardon of a federal crime has ever been successfully challenged. It is an extremely broad brush.

        In Tom Kratman’s novel “Caliphate”, use of the pardon power plays an interesting part in the setup of the political situation. One that seems plausible, yet … messy.

  7. 26Limabeans says:

    Who is the guy in the background with the curious look?

  8. SFC D says:

    I seriously need the big-bird version of how they enlisted in the first place. I don’t get it.

  9. USMC Steve says:

    It isn’t like that will be a very large group, Very few of them enlisted in our military.

  10. Atkron says:

    Chaos 2024…or Chaos for VP 2020

    • A Proud Infidel®™ says:

      PENCE/MATTIS 2024!!! I can see it now:

      WASHINGTON DC (AP) Cleanup crews in many places have been very busy today doing biohazard bodily fluid cleanups after scores of liberals’ heads exploded right after the Inauguration of President Mike Pence and Vice President Mattis. Other locations with cleanup crews working nonstop include New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Portland and Seattle among other places. Authorities expect more of this to happen as Bolton is sworn in as Secretary of State among other things…

  11. AW1Ed says:

    Nikki Haley VP on Pense’s ticket. Chaos SECDEF for life.

    • Atkron says:

      Ok, that does sound better.

    • mr. sharkman says:

      SECWAR for life. 😉

      • Hondo says:

        Kinda stuck in the mid-1940s, shark? (smile)

        • mr. sharkman says:

          Outside of modern medicine (and thus the ability to better kick childhood cancer’s ass), name 1 thing that is better.

          I’d gladly carry a Garand or Tommy Gun into battle vs. ISIS using hand signals in a ’40s alternate reality…

          And I’d always have a 1911 2dary, replacements costing $10 or so…

          Think about it-

          😉

          • Hondo says:

            OK. Today

            1. Autos typically last 150-200k miles with regular maintenance and are FAR more fuel efficient than comparable vehicles from the 1940s. They also don’t require oil changes every 1000 or 2000 miles – like many if not most vehicles from the 1940s and early 1950s did. Or as much maintenance in general.
            2. Auto tires typically last 50-80k miles vice 5-10k miles.
            3. Calling long-distance is low-cost or free.
            4. You can call literally around the world without booking it well in advance (and, depending on the length of the call, taking out a second mortgage on the house).
            5. HVAC is far better today and uses far less energy.
            6. Data communications . . . well, it exists today. Not much of that before 1950.
            7. Computer technology (including embedded stuff that makes everything else more efficient).
            8. Transportation (most highways in the 1940s were 2 lanes, and many secondary roads were still dirt or gravel; there were few 4-lane highways and even fewer freeways; the Interstate system did not exist).
            9. Air travel (you can actually afford it today – it was pretty much “travel for the rich” in the 1940s).
            10. Materials technology (including ceramics, metal alloys, and composites). We do that way better today.
            11. Farmers are hugely more productive due to advances in techniques and the “Green Revolution” of the 1960s. This has (in inflation-adjusted terms) lowered the costs of most staple foods vice 1950 – a 5lb bag of flour cost the equivalent of around $6.00 then, while WalMart sells it for about $2.60 today.
            12. Jim Crow. Gone – and Good Riddance.

            Oh, and did I mention that E1s for most of the 1940s got paid $25 a month? And that the average hourly wage in the US in 1950 was well south of $2/hr?

            There are probably another 100 (easily), but that’s enough for now. And I haven’t discussed weapons or other specifically military technology.

            Nostalgia causes us all to revere the good things about the past, and many things have changed IMO for the worse over time. But nostalgia also causes us to forget the past’s flaws.

            The 1940s was a great era (reputedly, from hearing my parents discuss it and the early 1950s; I’m not that old [smile]). But I’ll go out on a limb and say that in general we have it way better today.

  12. borderbill (a NIMBY/BANANA) says:

    Semper Fidelis— Always Faithful. Barry Hussein made a semi-effective and sincere effort to upfuck our great country. General Mattis, General Kelley and others in the Presidency of Donald Trump are getting us back on track to MAGA.

  13. Mike P says:

    I totally agree with what SecDef did, and I have no problem with the DACA recipients that have enlisted….in fact applaud them and wish them well in their careers.

    That being said I am sick to death of it being implied they are a large part of the total number of those signed up under DACA.

    Those protected under DACA who wish to enlist are only granted a waiver to join the military (and so far only the Army is granting the waivers) if they have a critically needed skill. The two fields they sign up for are either medical or if they have a critically needed language skill…..and Spanish IS NOT one of those languages. Also keep in mind that not being a US citizen will prevent them from being granted a security clearance (just a limited access authorization) which is pretty much a career killer.

    The latest figures I read indicate that just under 1000 DACA people are currently serving. Just about .001% of the 800,000 who are currently signed up for the program.

    • A Proud Infidel®™ says:

      I’m sure only a tiny fraction of the DACA people are in the Military and the rest are doing menial jobs when they aren’t dealing drugs, pimping, driving drunk,…

  14. FuzeVT says:

    How about this:
    >Sign up in a special “I am totally illegal but I want to straighten that out now, please” recruiting program
    >Complete 6 years of active duty
    >Become full citizen and you are pardoned for your previous illegalness.

    Basic requirements
    >Physically fit (sorry broken dudes and fatties)
    >Passes basic Engrish test
    >Has no criminal activity on record.

    What do you think? Of course this would be prejudice against the aforementioned fatties and broken illegals, but I don’t really care.

    • Chesty says:

      Do tell us how foreign legions worked for the Western Roman Empire.

      I’ll wait……….

      • 2/17 Air Cav says:

        Wait outside where you can’t annoy people.

      • Hondo says:

        Actually, the Roman legion system (in which non-citizens were recruited into the Roman Army with the promise of citizenship after 20 years of service) worked quite well for Rome for multiple centuries. It didn’t really break down until the late 200s/early 300s AD, when Rome was becoming economically exhausted and was thus forced to allow barbarian migrations into Roman territory. Rome did so, and subsequently filled their need for troops in large part from those new resident barbarians. Subsequent events didn’t go so well for Rome.

        There were also a few other factors that occurred at the time – the east-west split and several decades of nonstop civil war, to name two. Cause/effect? Who knows. But I’d guess they’re connected in some way.

        Santayana said, paraphrasing, “Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.” Though in your case, that probably should read “are destined to prove themselves both ignorant and a fool”.

  15. mr. sharkman says:

    Am I the only one wondering how seriously SECDEF is playing with the idea of an American Foreign Legion as a path to Citizenship? A ‘shock’ regiment with its members motivation and dedication baked in from the get-go?

    • jonp says:

      Now that is a great idea.

      • mr. sharkman says:

        I’ve yet to meet an FFL shooter who wasn’t as hard as woodpecker lips.

        The same goes for Spanish Legion, but Spanish Legion doesn’t have 1/100 the visibility/PR and so on.

        On the grim side of things, foreign regiments, legions, and similar entities are very effective in today’s 24/7 news cycle and UW because the populace doesn’t really give much of a damn if they suffer heavy losses in an ugly fight.

        And these types of units attract warriors, experienced warriors as a rule.

        In the ’90s, most of the FFL NCOs I ran across were former sov SOF and airborne NCOs. Ready-made to collect scalps wherever they were sent.

    • rgr769 says:

      I thought this was a great idea over 25 years ago. Just like the Roman Legions, 20 years (or less) honorable service in the American Foreign Legion and you earn U.S. citizenship.

      • Chesty says:

        Yeah. Rome is really projecting power these days.

        • mr. sharkman says:

          In its day, Rome was something that has yet to be touched, comparatively.

          The US and other modern Nations militaries can trace much of their lineage back to Rome and her military system and reforms.

          20 years service followed by retirement and benefits (in the case of Rome, Citizenship being maybe the greatest benefit in the world at that time) which is ‘standard’ today was started long ago in Rome.

  16. FatCircles0311 says:

    How the hell were illegals entering the military in the first place? WTF.

    • AW1Ed says:

      Once upon a time, a skinny kid with a funny name grew up and got elected as POTUS. Twice. Too bad he was a SCoaMF.

    • mr. sharkman says:

      All kinds of WTF slips through the cracks in any big bureaucracy.

      I know of 1 dude who was a few weeks into IS ‘A’. He was a native of Novia Scotia (a certain recruiter was apparently unaware that Novia Scotia was not a part of the USA) before paperwork/admin/security/etc. caught up with him. 😉

      Keep in mind IS ‘A’ = TS clearance.

    • USMC Steve says:

      Illegally, with forged documentation. It is called fraudulent/illegal enlistment and is punishable under the UCMJ.

  17. jonp says:

    I’m ok with that. It’s the assholes parading down streets “demanding” shit that gets me a little hot under the collar

  18. 2/17 Air Cav says:

    US Armed Services Recruiting Office: Latvia.
    US Armed Services Recruiting Office: Berlin.
    US Armed Services Recruiting Office: Belize.

    Maybe that explains it: The foreign nationals are enlisting while in their home countries and are not here illegally. Or not.

    • jonp says:

      I wandered around the former British Colony and Commonwealth country of Belize a little and didn’t see a recruiting station. Saw many British Soldiers looking damn glad to be there in November, though

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