Navy relieves Capt. Honors (UPDATED)

| January 4, 2011

UPDATE: Associated Press is now reporting that the captain’s relief for cause is permanent.

So the Navy decided to take the path of least resistance and bow to their civilian masters. They temporarily relieved Captain Owen Honors for his video productions more than four years ago while he the Executive Officer of the USS Enterprise.

Wasn’t it the Agriculture Department who, a few years, found large numbers of their agency employees downloading porn on their government computers? They wouldn’t release the names of the employees and they all eventually returned to work. I guess that civilians are held to a different standard than military members.

I can show you much worse stuff that my father recorded during his time in the Navy when his ship, the USS Saipan, crossed the Equator. Stuff involving crawling through garbage, a cross-dresser in mermaid garb – and that was during the Korean War. Does the Navy want to investigate that, too?

People are finally watching the video rather than take the media’s word and folks just don’t think there’s much there to be outraged about. Well, except the Left, of course. One local TV station went as far as to call the video a “Navy orientation video”. That story has been pulled, but the internet remembers;

The Huffington Post says that somehow these videos cast a pall over “the Navy culture”;

The military has undergone a cultural shift in recent decades away from the loutish, frat-boy behavior that was exposed by the Tailhook scandal in 1991. It is now working to accommodate gays in its ranks with Congress’ repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell.” Also, the Navy is opening its all-male submarine force to women this year.

Actually, the uproar over the video only serves to highlight the growing gulf between our military and civilian cultures. No one would have thought twice about Honors’ video if it had emerged in a college fraternity. Well, most of the crowd who Honors was playing to are college fraternity-aged.

Category: Military issues

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  1. Perspectives | January 4, 2011
  1. Stonewall116 says:

    Having watched the video (Can’t comment on what I don’t know about.), I can honestly say that there is much worse things being shown on TV shows like The Simpsons, Family Guy, MTV, Saturday Night Live and many other shows/channels. Things that children watch and mimick where as these are closed circuit videos being shown in a high-stress environment in, what I took, an attempt to provide some much needed stress relief. To me, this is what a good XO should be doing and that is helping the crew maintain their morale through one of the best methods available which is laughter. To relieve the Captain, even temporarily, is a disservice to this country and a good officer. I can guarantee you that the performance of the Enterprise will suffer if he is not cleared and returned to command by their deployment time.

  2. goober says:

    Killing people and watching friends die is inharently un-PC, hence the slow acceptance of the PC culture in the military by its members. It is taking politicians and the press to increase that rate of change, and particularly in the Navy, with the full acceptance and support of the CJCS.

  3. AW1 Tim says:

    I am so pissed off by the Navy’s response to this situation that I am not going to comment on it, lest I say something egregious.

    I am, however, contacting my Senators and voicing my displeasure at this situation to them, in the hopes that they might lean on the Navy to quit playing PC police and get back to fighting a war.

  4. Old Trooper says:

    Gutless wonders right there. The CNO must be related to Gen. Gates.

    What a bunch of PC pussies we have running things right now. I’m glad I’m too old, because I wouldn’t join this military culture, not now, because the chain of command doesn’t have your back, which has been notoriously demonstrated over the last few years.

  5. Joseph Brown says:

    I wish I’d had some CO’s in the ’50s like this guy. I had some of the most anal retentive officers the AF could produce.

  6. Jacobite says:

    @#2 – Killing people and watching friends die is entirely unrelated to political correctness which is also properly defined as cultural Marxism. The reason PC is slow to be accepted in military culture is because by and large there is no room for it in an organization who’s job it is to kill people and break things, including themselves, on behalf of the American citizenry.

  7. Jerry920 says:

    While I think Capt. Honors is getting a raw deal by a PC Navy, I like the fact that the military is held to a higher standard than civlians. One only has to look at the nationwide approval of the U.S. military compared to its civilian task masters to see why it’s better to be held to a higher standard.

  8. I can honestly say that there is much worse things being shown on TV shows like The Simpsons, Family Guy, MTV, Saturday Night Live and many other shows/channels.
    ==========

    Heck, there are much worse things being shown and taught to our children, tweens and teens in sex education classes in public schools. And in those cases, parents are forbidden from exempting their kids from these sex education classes if the kids or parents find them offensive or inappropriate.

    So the government will not cater to children, tweens and teens and their parents if they are offended, but will cater to military members who find something offensive.

    Brilliant.

  9. Ben says:

    “Wasn’t it the Agriculture Department who, a few years, found large numbers of their agency employees downloading porn on their government computers?”

    I thought it was the Security and Exchange Commission. Could have been both. The SEC is supposed to be an economic watchdog, to ensure that nothing like the financial meltdown of 2008 ever occurs. But of course the financial meltdown of 2008 did occur, mostly cause these guys were spanking it to their computer screens while Rome was burning.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/04/eye_opener_porn_and_federal_wo.html

  10. Ben says:

    Personaly, I think that the XO of a carrier should know way better than this. He should be an officer and a gentleman.

    On the other hand, I think some people love an opportunity to embarass the military.

    I’m amused by HuffPo’s comments: “The military has undergone a cultural shift in recent decades away from the loutish, frat-boy behavior that was exposed by the Tailhook scandal in 1991. It is now working to accommodate gays in its ranks with Congress’ repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell.” Also, the Navy is opening its all-male submarine force to women this year.”

    Ah ha! So that’s what this is about! We’ve to get rid of the lautish, frat boy behavior so that girls and homos feel better. I guess it never occurred to them that the “lautish frat boy behavior” is closely related to the warrior spirit that our military needs. Let’s face it, emasculating the force is their goal.

    And another thing–Tailhook was an anti-male witchhunt. And it never would have happened if there weren’t any women in the military.

  11. I thought it was the Security and Exchange Commission. Could have been both.

    Let’s also not forget the TSA, which has training about how to teach children about how cavity searches are good for them: TSA Office Caught With ‘Child Cavity Search Cartoon’ on Computer

  12. NHSparky says:

    Oh, for fuck’s sake. The inmates have offically taken over the asylum.

  13. Ah ha! So that’s what this is about! We’ve to get rid of the lautish, frat boy behavior so that girls and homos feel better. I guess it never occurred to them that the “lautish frat boy behavior” is closely related to the warrior spirit that our military needs. Let’s face it, emasculating the force is their goal.
    ==========

    Bingo.

    It is absolutely no coincidence that this is happening within weeks of repeal of DADT and around the time they’re now allowing females on submarines.

    None of these decisions have anything to do with what is best for the military. It’s all about “diversity”.

    What was the cry after Fort Hood? “Diversity”. What was the argument about DADT? “Diversity”. The argument regarding women on subs? “Diversity”.

  14. Old Trooper says:

    I would rather have 1 Captain Honors defending this country than 1000 Dan Choi types.

    The military leadership has finally gone full cupcake.

  15. Associated Press is now reporting that the captain’s relief for cause is permanent.
    ==========

    I think it is time for an investigation into who were the sailors who (1) leaked these videos to the press and (2) sent them to the US Navy IG. As far as we know, Captain Honors has been a highly successful military leader for the past 3-4 years. The only thing that has changed during that time has been repeal of DADT and the decision to put women on NAVY deployments.

    So, until they prove differently, I think the highly probable cause of this is that sailors are going after Captain Honors knowing they can after DADT repeal, and special status is now given to LGBTs.

    The pro-repeal crowd said that this wouldn’t hurt the military whatsoever and now less than 2 weeks after repeal, we’ve lost a great Captain.

    Brilliant.

  16. NHSparky says:

    http://www.bradmesser.com/images/chokeChicken_55K.jpg

    I now call for the people who put this sign up 5-6 years ago to have their careers shit upon. I mean, we just can’t have this, now can we kids?

    (And yes, that was sarcasm, in case you couldn’t tell.)

  17. I share baldilock’s sentiments:
    =====

    …the collapse of the American military is the goal and the relieving of men like Captain Honors — who appear to be a qualified military leader — for being insufficiently as PC as most Navy types I’ve run into, is but the latest tactic to facilitate the desired collapse.

    The Left wishes this country destroyed and transformed into Marx’s image. Hollowing out the strongest, most effective military in the world achieves this. The situation with Captain Honors seems small but it isn’t. It’s just the beginning.

    Posted by: baldilocks at January 04, 2011 10:27 AM

  18. Ben says:

    HuffPo mentions a cultural shift.

    Which is exactly what I have been saying for a very long time. The culture of the military is the “problem”. Changing it is their goal.

    While this may seem self-evident, that’s not something that liberals readily admit to. They’ll swear on their mother’s grave that changing the military is not their goal. Whatever they’re proposing is (according to them) no big deal, will happen quietly and not change much of anything, short of making things more “fair”. In a few years, everyone will have accepted whatever change they shoved down our throats with an indifferent shrug, asking “What was the fuss all about?”

    Ask a World War II veteran if he thinks the military has changed at all. Of course it has. The leftists have gone a long way in wussifying the military, and they aren’t done yet. Where does it all end? Their work is never done. Now that the Left has achieved homosexuality in the ranks and women on submarines, what will be their next objective? Will we stand on our ground, or will we cave like we have in the past?

    I suspect the latter.

  19. DaveO says:

    As they say in the Navy: “Next!” The Navy’s canned a lot of skippers this year.

    Reminds me of the awful tales of nuke inspections, when a discarded cigarette butt near a launcher was cause to end the careers of the lieutenant, and the BC. The moral of the story was to not get comfortable wearing the bars: even the best officer’s career can be fired due to one jerk in the ranks.

    So, who wanted this skipper gone?

  20. UpNorth says:

    The military leadership has finally gone full cupcake”. Bingo, OT and Mike. The culture now is now officially cupcake, not warrior. Diversity is the be-all, end-all, according to the powers that be.
    And, I echo your feelings about CPT Honor, and the Choi-toi.

  21. Bohemond says:

    Good God. Under this present candy-ass zeitgeist George S. Patton wouldn’t have made major. And Chesty Puller would have been court-martialed.

  22. Somewhat related (since I fully believe this issue with Captain Honors was reopened due to repeal of DADT and someone wanting to settle old scores against him): Website Aims To Be Gay Military Facebook

    So nice to know that repeal of DADT was not going to affect our military in a negative manner.

  23. Also, I used to think the best thing about the military was that one was not see as a Black member or a White member or a female member or a homosexual member of the military, but simply a member of the military. As we are always told, there are no male Marines and female Marines, there are only US Marines.

    Well, in this new PC military, we are now separating not only among branches, but also by subgroups.

    Divide and conquer from within.

  24. Heh, DrewM puts it in nice perspective over at AoSHQ:

    Obama calls the Eagles to congratulate them on giving dog killer Michael Vick a second chance but now his Navy commanders are going to trash the career of a decorated hero over some videos?

    Hurt feelings and political correctness trump decades of honorable service and readiness for war. What could go wrong?

  25. DaveO says:

    #21: both ran into plenty of PC-related incidents. It was just that America kept getting into wars, and they kept winning them.

    In every war, folks become legend. With the end of the war, the legends are either put out to pasture, or sent into some nasty bit of fighting out on the fringes. Sometimes, like Smedley Butler or Dan Daly, they win a couple of MOH, and are enshrined in official histories. Mostly, such legends become tales told over a table of beers at the V.

    Patton and Puller lived in an era that encouraged independence, courage, and the ability to go outside the box. Puller never received a MOH, and never got his 4th star. If it hadn’t been for two world wars, and the Punitive Expedition, Patton would have retired as a First Lieutenant or Captain (he couldn’t pass the examinations for promotion due to his dyslexia).

    Our military culture since Viet Nam has been one of systemically destroying the ability to create larger-than-life heroes. Today we’ve got more in common with the Junkers than we do with the cowboys who epitomized the American way of war. More Borg than Kirk.

  26. 1stCavRVN11B says:

    Jonn – my uncle was more than likely on the same cruise aboard the USS Saipan when it crossed the Equator. He too had many photos such as you describe. Small world indeed.

  27. Daniel says:

    Well I guess this means we need to get rid of all the military traditions.

    Goodbye to:

    Propblasts
    Spur rides
    Grogs
    Blood wings
    Pollywogs and Shellbacks

    This is all just frat house behavior not in step with military service.

  28. Spigot says:

    #28–Daniel, I hate to break this to you but Propblasts went the way of the DoDo many years ago. Yes, even at Bragg, back in the early 90s no one (even in The Deuce) was holding Propblasts. A bunch of pussy, PC bullshit…although I did receive Bloodwings…just a sign of the times over the past 20+ years or so.

    Just like Tailhook.

    I’m sure glad no one was running a tape recorder when I’d run my Company at PT back in the mid 80s…”Up Jumped the Monkey”, “Two Old Ladies”…geez, I’d of been relieved by the PC Nazi’s too.

  29. Stonewall116 says:

    My Father served in the Army National guard during the 70s. He had three things to say about it.

    1) He made a great bunch of friends.

    2) You can’t use the military as a social sciences project. That isn’t what it is for.

    3) He really enjoyed smacking hippies with his baton.

    I know my Dad was never politically correct. And this kind of thing would have made him sick. The stories he told of going to Summer Camp or Winter Camp and the various deployments he did with officers and troops back then would have gotten all of them thrown in Ft. Leavenworth today.

    It is sad, truly sad, to see what has happened over the years.

  30. John the Baptist says:

    No more propblasts, huh? Is the slop chute on Sand Hill at Benning gone, too? Last time I was at Ft. Campbell, in 2000, I noticed the airfield all-ranks club was gone, and some of the young fellers there told me that getting a good stress relief drunk on = Article 15 these days.

    I also noticed they had severely toned down the AA course, one instructor told me that too many women had failed parts of it, so it had to go so they didn’t. Then one of my former students told me that a black hat told his class at ABN School a couple of years ago right up front to just forget all the horror stories that “old guys” had told them about the course, that all they had to do is stay awake, do what they were told to, and go out the door five times. No stress, no strain. No 220′ towers, either. And bloodwings weren’t even brought up at his graduation, so I reckon that proud if painful tradition is gone, too.

    I think our military peaked in WWII and has been heading downhill ever since, even during my days (Vietnam), there was too much attention paid to truly non-mission essential crap. I also think this downhill degradation is accelerating. I worry about, and grieve for this nation and what it could have become.

  31. Houser says:

    You people are all idiots. I am ashamed to have worn the same uniform.

  32. WOTN says:

    When I got my Airborne Wings in the 90’s, the Commander faked the blood wings, losing my respect.

    For my last promotion, the LTC gave me blood stripes, earning my respect.

    Risk Averse officers cost lives.

  33. John the Baptist says:

    Houser – If you think that, you didn’t. ‘Nough said.

    WOTN – I have pondered this for some minutes now, how exactly do you fake blood wings?

    Just out of idle curiosity, speaking of blood wings, did anyone else get wings tattooed around the holes? I knew a couple of guys who insisted that was the thing to be done, but of all the ones I’ve asked, only a few actually did it.

  34. Old Trooper says:

    Spigot: Good times, good times. Ran PT many a morning to those oldies but goodies! Don’t forget Napalm and Viper Strike.

    Houser: Ouch!! Ya got me with that one!!!! Pussy.

  35. Daniel says:

    Houser,

    Wow a drive by insult without even providing an argument, that is real mature. At the very least you should post a point of view or disagreement and not just arbitrary insults.

    If you need help here is an example:

    For clarification, when discussing blood wings I was talking about the hit in the chest at graduation not the beatings that occured in 1996.

    See, it isn’t that hard. Why don’t you give it a try or just post more insults.

  36. DaveO says:

    #34: Never heard of tatting wings around the holes.

    Usually after graduation, the newly-pinned airborne scramble to get to Columbus Airport for a flight out. By the time most of them make it home, the wing-holes will have healed.

    As an aside, do wish the airline would issue each passenger a gas-mask prior to taking off with a load of airborne graduates. Just sayin’…

  37. YatYas says:

    In February of 1992, we were asked if we wanted the blood wings by the Black Hats. At that time though the Black Hats were not allowed to swear at us. A fellow Marine sergeant swore at one of the young soldiers during field day and he ran to tell a Black Hat. The Black Hat’s response was golden, “He’s a Marine, he’s allowed to swear at you.” Hate to admit it, but some of the best instructors I ever had were the Black Hats at Benning.

    Houser:
    Geez, lighten up Francis!

  38. WOTN says:

    John,

    Blood Wings involve striking the dammitless wings, such that the prongs penetrate the flesh.

    The Captain purposely missed the wings, impressing on the Company that he had given blood wings, but having done nothing more than punching me in the chest.

  39. WOTN says:

    BTW: new videos are out. We have the original w/o censorship and two previous videos that provide greater context: http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2011/01/more-videos-of-captain-honors.html

  40. John the Baptist says:

    WOTN – Yeah, I’m somewhat intimately familiar with blood wings, but couldn’t figure out how you could fake them. I thought you meant *he* faked getting them! In my day, the officer sort came by, pinned ya, then walked on down the line. The next feller in line on our case was the battalion sergeant major with a little bag full of clasps, and he’s the one who asked the immortal question, “blood or no blood?”, meaning, did you really need the clasps or not. At least immediately. Then he was the one to do the deed, not the more delicately oriented officer.

  41. WOTN says:

    Back in the 90’s, there was a website by a Viet Nam Special Forces Veteran in CA.

    He had a great story entitled “Officers and Gentlemen” that not only explained the difference, but also why there were very few Gentlemen above the rank of (Army) Captain (O3).

    One of my favorite lines from it was “An officer is a gentleman by an act of Congress.”

    Capt Honors would be included in his definition of a gentleman. Adm Mullins would not be.

    As pertinent is the evolution of what an officer is over time, as demonstrated in the military historian’s book “Faces of Battle” which more than anything else changed the preferred method of recording military history but covers 3 well known battles of 3 very different eras of warfare.

  42. Spigot says:

    Houser…I wore mine for 24 fucking years, in peace and in war.

    Shut your cock holster Nancy-Boy, and run upstairs from the basement in your under-roos…I think your Mommy is calling you for your din-din.