Random Open Thread

| November 20, 2018

Lt. Henry “Hap” Arnold, who learned to fly from the Wright Brothers, sits in his airplane in College Park, Maryland, in 1911. (Air Force)


In November 1938 Charles Lindbergh wrote urgently to Maj. Gen. Henry Harley “Hap” Arnold, the new chief of the Army Air Corps. Touring Germany, the aviation hero had witnessed the surging Luftwaffe firsthand.

“Germany is undoubtedly the most powerful nation in the world in military aviation, and her margin of leadership is increasing with each month that passes,” Lindbergh wrote. “In a number of fields the Germans are already ahead of us and they are rapidly cutting down whatever lead we now hold in many others.”

Arnold, on the job little more than a month, took Lindy’s warning to heart. He summoned to the National Academy of Sciences a group of researchers and university administrators, including MIT president Vannevar Bush and California Institute of Technology physicists Robert Millikan and Theodore von Kármán. Some military men thought Arnold was wasting time talking to “longhairs.” Invited by his old friend to lunch with the scientists, Gen. George C. Marshall balked. “What on earth are you doing with people like that?” Marshall asked.

“Using their brains to help us develop gadgets and devices for our airplanes that are far too difficult for the air force engineers to develop themselves,” Arnold replied.

Doctrinaire officers might not have thought to look on campus for help winning wars, but for Arnold the leap was logical. As one of the world’s first licensed pilots, trained at the Wright brothers’ own flying school and mindful that might requires science, technology, and solid design and planning, Arnold conceived a vision of America as an air power and, simultaneously balancing immediate needs with the necessity of peering into the future, nurtured a tiny, feeble armed service into an aerial armada capable of winning a world war.

Read the full article here: Here’s why Hap Arnold, a practical visionary, became the ‘father of the Air Force’

Category: "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves"

Comments (98)

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  1. Tallywhagger says:

    Not first

  2. Sea Dragon says:


  3. 2/17 Air Cav says:

    We’ve got some live threads going. Don’t feel neglected. The gang will find you.

  4. Thunderstixx says:

    Not fourth…
    After all, it doesn’t count in the vaunted TAH WOT contest where the winner gets to proclaim his superiority to all others for an entire week…

  5. AnotherPat says:

    Thank You, ex-OS2, for sharing this story.

    General Henry Harley “Hap” Arnold was the only Officer to hold a Five-Star Rank in two different U.S. Military Services: a General of the U.S Army and a General of the U.S Air Force. In fact, General Arnold was the only U.S. Air Force General to hold the Five-Star Rank.

    A Salute to the Father of the Air Force.

    • The Other Whitey says:

      Arnold was an asshole, but he took no crap and got shit done. Not everything he did was for the best, but he thought it was when he was making it happen, so he deserves due credit.

    • SaraSnipe says:

      I attended (briefly) a high school named after him in Wiesbaden Germany.

    • Some Guy says:

      You are technically correct and the Air Force loves to claim him as one of their own, however the man never served a day in an Air Force uniform or capacity. He retired in 1946, but the USAF wasn’t created as a separate branch until 1947. They named him General of the Air Force in 1949, but he wasn’t recalled from retirement and died the next year.
      Thus, IMO Arnold never was an airman, but a soldier throughout his entire career. 🙂

  6. Mick says:

    While we’re on the topic of aviation, here are some photos of the future Marine One helicopter.

    Sikorsky VH-92A.

    “Newly-released images offer first glimpse of next-generation Marine One prototype”


    • Skyjumper says:

      This item caught my eye on the Fox News link:

      “Citing a GAO report, The Drive notes that the helicopter’s impact on the White House lawn is an important part of the testing process.”

      So, is the White House gardener involved in the development of this bird?

      ” I don’t want any damn divots in my lawn after that whirly thing lands & takes off, or there will be hell to pay!”

      • 26Limabeans says:

        “impact on the White House lawn”

        Don’t say that.

        • Some Guy says:

          I think the issue at heart is that the Marines escorting the president on those flights don’t get a waiver from their 1SG to step on the grass.

      • Mason says:


        Still don’t know why they just don’t put a pad in. Read several years back the reasoning, something about the sightlines and history, but can’t remember specifically. Meanwhile our Marines can’t land and dent the ground. Need to set that thing down like a butterfly.

        • 11B-Mailclerk says:

          Grass over a hard pad?

          Some sod in a nearby greenhouse for patching?


          • Mason says:

            There you go, simple solution from a grunt. I like it.

            Being former USAF, I was thinking an underground hangar with retractable doors like at Professor X’s Xavier School for Gifted Youngsters.

          • luddite4change says:

            Sounds like the ideal solution, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it already was done in some manner.

            I’ve seen the new bird flying around, it looks great, is reportedly roomier on the inside, air transportable (currently the VH-60 are the out of DC birds), and quieter.

  7. AnotherPat says:

    FOX25 News (OKCFOX) in Oklahoma City, OK, reported this story yesterday:

    “12 Children Injured In Dog Attack at Oklahoma City Elementary School:


    The 9-11 call is also at this OKCFOX Link:


    So…let’s see if anyone now wants to ban dogs, because some dogs HAVE killed Humans…

  8. Skyjumper says:

    I posted this item late last night on TAH, but thought ya’ll might enjoy if you hadn’t seen it.

    ….and then there is this Russian woman jumping in a frozen over lake in Russia. Enjoy! (smile)


    • Mason says:

      It’s worth watching repeatedly. It’s got sex appeal and a moron playing a stupid game and winning a stupid prize.

      Some boyfriend she’s got too. What a “man”. That guy deserves a kick in the teeth.

  9. AnotherPat says:

    With Thanksgiving coming up in two days:

    Had an interesting conversation with grown Family members about serving and eating “traditional” side dishes for Turkey Day.

    Family members are spread on the East Coast, starting with New York to Alabama.

    Found out most serve the Green Bean Cassorole (green beans with mushroom soup and those crispy onion rings), the Sweet Potato/Yam Casserole with Marshmellows, yet when it comes to eating those dishes, they are untouched.

    Some did not care for the Cranberry Sauce in the can.

    I asked them why their families continued to make and serve those side dishes if the food was going to waste. (Sigh..) The answer was “Tradition”…

    All liked Stuffing (although some made with cornbread, others with stale bread, packaged croutons or Stuffing in the Box); some cooked it in the turkey, others said No-Go on that method.

    Others rather have mashed potatoes with gravy, dinner rolls or biscuits and collard or turnip greens with their meal…or just plain green beans.

    And then there is that Ambrosia Salad…and the pumpkin or sweet potato or pecan pie..

    Just curious: Anyone else here (depending what part of the US you reside) have “traditional” foods that are not consumed during the Holidays?

    Miss eating at the Messhall/DFAC on Turkey Day…Army Cooks rule..

    • SFC D says:

      I think I was 13 or 14 when I found out that the ubiquitous green bean casserole was NOT my grandma’s recipe. It was like discovering your entire childhood was a lie.

      • AnotherPat says:

        SFC D:

        And the creator of the Green Bean Casserole, Dorcas Reilly, passed away in October at the age of 92:


      • 26Limabeans says:

        My mother invented stuffed peppers.

        • AnotherPat says:

          26 Limabeans:

          What? Could have sworn your Mom invented the Limabean casserole that Claw shared is hidden in the deep folds of a WWII Army Technical Manual for Army Cooks…😉

        • Claw says:

          Stuffed Peppers – Recipe #326 in TM 10-412, dated 15 Aug 44.

          The recipe starts out innocently enough asking for 100 peppers and 18 pounds of either beef, lamb, pork, veal or ham, then kinda goes downhill from there./smile

          • 26Limabeans says:

            Did they have Minute Rice™ then?
            That was moms secret ingedient.

            • Claw says:

              Apparently not, as the recipe initially calls for bread crumbs, then says uncooked rice can be substituted for the bread crumbs.

              It says nothing about Spanish Rice, which I thought was the secret ingredient to Stuffed Peppers.

            • SFC D says:

              MRS D and I were getting groceries a few weeks back, we’re checking out and there’s a box of Uncle Ben’s rice going in the bag. I gave her my best wide-eyed innocent look and asked:

              “If you’re buying white rice, does that make you a ricest?”

              Got a high five from the cashier and bagger, but it was pretty quiet on the way home.

        • 2/17 Air Cav says:

          Big deal. I had an aunt who invented salmonella.

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      I always liked the green bean casserole, but my mother would never make it. Ever.

      Never had pumpkin pie until the local grocery started a bakery and then, yes, we had that.

      In talking to my sister much later, she thought Ma’s eyesight was really bad, which might explain something. I would be polite in saying the my mother was a below average cook, even though she had the full edition of Better Homes & Gardens cookbook. She had no instinct for cooking.

      My dad said he liked my cooking better, but I had long since moved away from home.

      • AnotherPat says:

        Ex: Thank You for sharing this. You are indeed blessed with culinary skills as well as articulating recipes with your verbage and photos-makes us all hungry!


        • AnotherPat says:

          Ex: P.S. Perhaps you can share any recipes you have for Turkey Day leftovers on “Thursday Is For Cooking Thread?”

          Just an idea..

        • AnotherPat says:


          (Putting myself in a corner wearing a Dunce Cap)..

          I apologize for using the term “verbage” when pointing out how well you articulate the English language when it comes to describing recipes.

          Should read “Your excellent use of vocabulary”.

          Please forgive this Army Soldier…even though it is still go army! beat navy!

    • Mason says:

      With the exception of turkey, potatoes, and stuffing, everything else has at least something left on the tables of my families. So when I make Christmas dinner, it’s keep it simple stupid. Meat, potatoes, and biscuits.

      • 5th/77th FA says:

        All of the above and don’t forget the tater salad, sweet tater pie, baked ham, chicken and dumplings, mac & cheese (no boxed crap) real cornbread dressing (damn a bunch of stove top stuffing), baked squash, deviled eggs, pecan & apple pie with vanilla bean ice cream, yeast rolls, corn bread, did I mention SWEET iced tea? And BTW, down heah, y’all; ain’t no dish of vittles gets put on the table that don’t get eat up. We still remember the winter of ’65.

  10. pointyhead says:

    Good read on Hap, but he was nowhere near as tough as Curt Lemay.

    • Mason says:

      And Billy Mitchell set the USAAC on the path to relevance that gave Hap something to even work with. Paid a price for his clairvoyance.

      • 5th/77th FA says:

        Billy Mitchell was the man. He got screwed, blued, and tattooed by the back stabbing, self centered political career m’fing “officers” of his day. At least they named a badass bomber after my boy.

        • The Other Whitey says:

          Billy Mitchell was right about a lot of things, but he was full of shit about a lot of others. Especially his claim that aircraft rendered the Army and Navy obsolete and that both should be replaced by the then-hypothetical Air Force.

          • 5th/77th FA says:

            No argument from me there T.O.W.; What did the Infantry and Artillery Commander ask the Armor Commander when they met in Berlin in ’45? Hey boys, who ended up winning the Air War?

  11. AnotherPat says:

    Thank Goodness this Thread is not in Bold Letters…


  12. AnotherPat says:

    A Shout Out to 5th/77th FA and any other Crimson Tide Fans:


    And once again, here is the CRAZY version of “Sweet Home Alabama” performed by the Leningrad Cowboys and THE Red Army Choir (as in the Soviet Union, uniforms and all):



    • AnotherPat says:

      Forgot to add:

      The ending to that version of the song will throw you for a loop…😎

      • 5th/77th FA says:

        We copy loud n clear Brother AP. Big Red gonna Tusk that auburn pussy cat/peace tweety bird. Bull Dawgs gone gnaw all over tech. Big shout out to you and yours for the Food Orgy Holiday. I’ll be down in Wilted Willy & Jeff’s AO right outside Tampa. Baby girl was an Honor Graduate of the Dawg Pound in Athens, Class of ’02. She’s stuck behind enemy lines as a Special Ed Teacher. We’ll be doing the game as SnL fetches cold beer and snacky stuff. Sister will be spoiling the grands. ROLL TIDE … GO DAWGS. ps enjoyed the video linkie good stuff.

  13. RGR 4-78 says:

    Have any of you heard from Dave Hardin? How is he doing?

  14. Dennis - not chevy says:

    It’s interesting to note that Langley used Government funds to build an airplane that didn’t fly; while the Wright brothers used private funds and built an airplane that did fly.

  15. AnotherPat says:

    The Virginia Pilot published this long, detailed story with an uodate…and to be honest with all, don’t know what to say. Just wanted to share:

    “A Sailor Rammed Through A Gate at Naval Air Station Oceana. But Did He Have To Die?”


    • Sapper3307 says:

      Any Airforce folks think this is like crossing the red line on the flight line without authorization. I crossed it once on Pope AFB and got a nice frontal view of an M16.

    • Comm Center Rat says:

      Not surprising when a young sailor rides the night train and crashes through a naval station gate that bad things follow. Axl Rose of Guns ‘n Roses sings the truth:

      Flyin’ like an aeroplane
      Speedin’ like a space brain
      One more time tonight
      I’m on the night train

      An I’m lookin’ for some
      I’m on the night train
      So’s I can leave this slum
      I’m on the night train
      And I’m ready to crash an’ burn

      Night train
      Bottoms up
      I’m on the night train
      Fill my cup
      I’m on the night train

      Don’t drink and drive. There’s always many safe transportation options available. Be responsible everyone during the holidays.


    • 26Limabeans says:

      Alcohol and a motor vehicle.
      Not a good combination no matter the “rest of the story”.

    • Mason says:

      “But did he have to die?”

      Well…He sort of took that on himself. The gate he smashed through surely had the “deadly force authorized” sign every 10ft.

      Even the witness said he thought it was a terrorist attack, which is what I’d have thought it was. Then he’s in the Hornet hangar running around? Dumb.

    • AnotherPat says:

      Originally, I wrote that I don’t know what to say…especially for this part of the story:

      “.. his death is listed as homicide as a result of a gunshot wound to the chest, Donna Price, an office administrator for the state Office of the Chief Medical Examiner said..”

      Was stunned when I read “homicide”.

      Also sadden that the story involved his mother.

      • Mason says:

        The definition of homicide is that a human has died. So any suicide, death of old age, and so forth is technically a homicide. Though the media have led the common man to think homicide and murder are synonyms.

        • AnotherPat says:


          Don’t mean to sound morbid, but have had my share of dealing with death certificates.

          Always seen on death certificates for those who have passed away from disease, old age, etc. the term “Natural Causes” as cause of death with explanation.

          Same with Suicides. Death certificates I have seen have “Suicide” annotated as cause of death with explanation.

          With accidents, whether car, train, boat, plane, falling down, tripping, chute not working when airborne, food poisoning, getting hit while riding a bike, drowning, drug/alcohol overdose, choking on food, accidental shooting, etc: have seen Death Certficates with “Accidental Death” as cause of death with explanation.

          Also have seen Death Certificates listing cause of death during Wartime situation as “Killed In Action” with explanation.

          Thought death by another person excluding self defense, LEO operations, Military operations, the Government (Executions) fell into the homicide (crime category) as cause of death determined by a Medical Examiner or Coroner. Terrorist attacks can be homicide (murder). Manslaughter can be used as in the case of someone intoxicated killing someone while driving.The exceptions have explanations of cause of death on death certificates.

          Still don’t understand how Homicide is used since the person who shot the Sailor was doing his job.

          Thank you for your input.

          • rgr769 says:

            “Homicide” does not mean the death was criminal or wrongful. It just means the person died as a result of actions by another human. Thus, we have justifiable homicide as the final legal determination in this case. The Coroner does not get to decide whether the death was wrongful or criminal from a legal standpoint.

            • 2/17 Air Cav says:

              I’ll interpret. Homicide is the taking of a human life by another. That is all it is. Murder is the illegal taking of a human life by another. Easiest way to put it: All murders are homicides. Not all homicides are murders.

              • 2/17 Air Cav says:

                I blame TV for the homicide/murder confusion. The police TV dramas have a Homicide Unit. Because it’s TV, and the homicides always involve murders, it leads viewers to think that homicide=murder.

    • Sparks says:

      “But Did He Have To Die?” Well, I don’t know that but I know we just saved a shit load of tax money and he’s saving a shit load on car insurance now.

  16. OWB says:

    Nothing random about something which appears to be daily now. Do we really need one every day? The OT used to be special…

  17. The Other Whitey says:

    My house officially became trilingual this past weekend. My wife and her twin sister reconnected with one of their friends from high school and college. Her background is similar to theirs, except she’s Vietnamese. She’s now on her own with four daughters because her ex decided to to pick up some underage will-fuck-for-a-green-card chick from the old country. The asshole lives two minutes away from her but can’t be bothered to even acknowledge his children. She’s a really sweet gal, her daughters are adorable, and I hope that deadbeat cocksucker dies violently and pornographically at the hands of a rabid bear.

    Anyway, my Sis-in-Law brought her and her girls over for the weekend. Her youngest, who’s two and adorable as hell, latched onto me immediately and wouldn’t let go. I taught the oldest, who’s eleven, how to make smores—they’d never had smores!—and they all bonded pretty quick with my kids and my nieces. We took them on a short hike on the National Forest land out back, and now they all want to go camping. My wife also decreed that I now need to learn Vietnamese as well as Khmer.

    • Dennis - not chevy says:

      BZ and my sincerest wishes for good luck and a bit of jealousy on my part. Nothing breaks my heart quicker than seeing children without a father figure. I feel, that with you, they have found what they need.

      • 5th/77th FA says:

        ^THIS^ You will be rewarded many times over for this T.O.W. That POS may or may not realize how bad he f’ed up. Maybe, if he avoids an early death or prison, when one of his little girls grows up and asks you to escort her down the aisle. Starred in that movie myself a time or 6.

      • The Other Whitey says:

        I sure hope so. According to my wife’s friend, her 11-year-old doesn’t usually behave as well lately as she did with us. Sadly there’s some daddy issues at work. Breaks my heart, and makes me want to do something grotesquely violent to her father if I ever meet that son of a bitch.

  18. Sparks says:

    This is surely old news to you folks. I just watched a video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez the newly minted 14th District of New York, congress critter. It amazes me that at my age when I think I can not be surprised, I am yet again surprised.

    I listened to her go on about Democrats retaking “all three houses of Congress” and then describe the three branches of government as the “Presidential, the House and the Senate”.

    Please tell me how she walks and chews gum? Tell me how she remembers to breathe in and out?

    How in the world did she get elected without knowing one iota about our government? I guess I know the answer. The big Democrat machine wanted someone for an easy vote and apparently, she could be talked into crossing an eight-lane interstate in rush hour because they tell her, “it’s your right”.

    Again, I am seldom taken aback but this nimrod, despite her Wikipedia page lauding her scholarly accomplishments, is just too stupid for words. They just will not form in my mind.

    • The Other Whitey says:

      According to some of her former coworkers, she seems to consider it “her right” to get horizontal with the boss in exchange for favors, raises, and other preferential treatment.

      • Sparks says:

        Who would have guessed? Get the favors, raises and such and then sue for sexual harassment and be a #metoo celebrity.

        Called, keeping that ace in the hole. Pun intended.

      • SFC D says:

        “She has nice long latina legs that are accentuated by wearing very expensive designer high-heels…”

        Heels that apparently seem to spend quality time up near her ears…

    • Sapper3307 says:

      The Left is ready to eat itself, as long as somebody else pays for it.

    • HMCS(FMF) ret says:

      And in some dark Berzerkeley basement, Lars Taylor (Social Justice Warrior) is diddling his mangina to her pic and voice…

  19. AnotherPat says:

    Two more cases of Voter Fraud. First one occurred in the Los Angeles area. Second one happened in Edinburg, Texas:

    “Prosecutors Say Homeless Offered Cash, Cigarettes In Exchange For Hundreds Of Signatures”


    “Nine People Arrested By Texas AG’s Office For Voter Fraud


    As others have pointed out, this has been going on for years, as in the 18th, 19th and 20th century…

    • 5th/77th FA says:

      Broward County FL says we can vote at the Welcome center on 75 Southbound on Wed. Voting at the northbound is scheduled for next Mon.

    • Hondo says:

      As others have pointed out, this has been going on for years, as in the 18th, 19th and 20th century…

      Certainly. Just read Robert A. Cano’s Means of Ascent (vol 2 in his bio series on LBJ) to see how LBJ and his cronies blatantly stole his 1948 Senate seat from a far better man.

      And for this century, see Al “Felon’s Choice” Franken.

  20. 2/17 Air Cav says:

    Army is nationally ranked for the first time in what seems like forever. The Black Knights are #23 in the AP poll and #24 in the Coaches poll. They have a bye this week, an extra week to get ready for the best football game that is played every year: ARMY v. Navy. Meanwhile, the goat gets no rest. The Middies play Tulane, which is no pushover. After years and years of suffering as I watched Navy beat Army, the Black Knights are looking to make it three straight. They all ready beat Air Force, so the Big Trophy can be theirs alone this year. Life is good.

    • AnotherPat says:

      Drum Row…




      • 2/17 Air Cav says:

        “goarmybeatnavyrolltide” NO! Now, say three Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys and do not combine Go Army Beat Nay with anything else. Many Army fans hate Bama. Many Navy fans love Bama. Keep it clean.

    • Devtun says:

      That would be 1996. The internet & cell phone were in it’s infancy, Justin Bieber was two years old, Bubba & Monica were getting it on, and all branches of the military wore the same camouflage – the horror!

  21. AnotherPat says:

    Any updates as to when the TAH Forum is going to the Watch/Clock Shop for repairs?

    (Already set my time mechanisms back by one hour)..


  22. 5th/77th FA says:

    GO ARMY! BEAT NAVY! Happy Food Orgy weekend! How ’bout them DAWGS and ROLL TIDE!