Midweek Open Thread

| December 5, 2018

Happy Hump-day This Aint Hell!

President Trump declared today a national day of mourning due to the passing of the late George H. W. Bush, 41st President of the U.S. I saw, from the liberal’s corner, a comment about how the late president could “roll with the punches”, even laugh at himself.

This individual wondered why President Trump “can’t” be the same way. Going beyond the surface of that statement, this liberal was demanding one thing. That republicans take on the characteristics of the republicans that liberals like.

Speaking of the liberal corner, time to bring you some of what snowflakes are pondering.

One leftist believes that we tend to be “anti-science”. We “pooh-pooh” science, but are not afraid to use it, like flying in airplanes, using cell phones, benefiting from advanced medicine, etc. Then there’s that “flat earth” accusation again…

Originally posted by PJMcK:

Republicans don’t believe in human-caused climate change. Yet this issue will dramatically change our planet and could possibly spark an extinction event causing the deaths of hundreds of millions of people and animals.

There are numerous other similar examples of Republicans denying things that are scientifically proven. (I doubt one could find any Progressives who believe the Earth is flat!)

And yet, Republicans are more than willing to use science for themselves. They use cellphones and GPS devices which wouldn’t be possible if Professor Einstein hadn’t done some very specific and remarkable research and made incredible discoveries.

What’s this? Looks like our commonly known Berkeley graduate has been going about this “all wrong”, he needs to shell out some money:

Originally posted by get the red out:

Originally posted by beachbum bob

Science does not overcome ideology, simple

Yes, or money. There has to be profit or benefit to them (and their big donors) from the science/tech in question for them to “believe“.

Our president was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and was raised doing bad things. Folks are still continuing to write President Trump off:

Originally posted by linuxuser3:

he’d have been locked up in a psych hospital by now. His administration has hit the iceberg it’s just a long sinking feeling from now on. Will he pardon himself? If Pence goes down same time Trump does they might try the Nixon-Ford 2-step: He pardons Pence first, then resigns, then Pence pardons him. Of course that would take trusting Pence *completely* so I’m gonna say no way he tries that. He’ll try to pardon himself. Will need to invest in popcorn stocks

This individual expresses an opinion that shows us that they still don’t understand why their candidate lost the 2016 presidential election. This poster, and others on the same side of the argument, risk another snowflake moment in the aftermath of the 2020 Presidential Election if they keep this attitude up:

Originally posted by democrank:

Donald Trump’s presidency reminds me of my childhood. No rational person in charge, nobody running things, no rules, no guidance, no standards, no bottom lines, no reasonable explanations, no kept promises.

This same individual demonstrates control issues with this comment:

Originally posted by democrank:

Trump’s presidency is like life after a tornado. You look through a hole where a wall used to be and see the neighbor’s bathtub crashed against your mailbox. Everything is upside down….nothing seems familiar and you wonder if you’re even on the right street.

Looking forward to your thoughts.


Category: Open thread, Politics

Comments (107)

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  1. Ret_25X says:

    These warmingistas are going to look even worse than they do today if the mini ice age folks are correct.

  2. ChipNASA says:

    First. Kiss mah butt.

    • AW1Ed says:

      This raises an interesting point. If, on the WOT, someone rightly claims “First” but fat-fingers the entry and winds up in moderation land, is he/she actually “First?”

      Or is the honor revoked by delay?

      I know how I feel, but am not an arbitrator here. I bow to the decision of the Rules Committee.

      • Alberich says:

        Until I saw your explanation, I was reading his comment as a variant on the physicians’ tenet: “First, do no harm.”

      • 2/17 Air Cav says:

        Prior WOT decisions well establish that it is the order of appearance that controls, but that only pertains to the WOT. Anything goes in a ROT or a MOT. There are no rules b/c there is no Book of Firsts entry.

        • 5th/77th FA says:

          Thank you Brother 2/17 Air Cav, for not only setting them straight but re-emphasizing the true nature of the Coveted Book of FIRSTS Friday Weekend Open Thread (Earned never Given). See post below.

          Much as I love, honor, respect and appreciate our Chipster, his first (lower case intentional) was a waste of ribbon ink. I see his kiss muh butt, and his him a move yo nose.

          Oh and BTW…goarmybeatnavy

  3. AW1Ed says:

    climate crime
    Heartland Institute Takes on ‘Climate Totalitarians’ at U.N. Summit: ‘A New Religion’
    By: Penny Starr

    Experts and scientists joined the Heartland Institute’s excursion to Katowice, Poland, this week for the United Nations (U.N.) COP24 conference on climate change. But the free-market think tank set up shop a few blocks away from the conference site so they could make the case against the U.N.’s agenda to fight so-called manmade climate change.

    James Taylor, senior fellow for environment and climate policy at the Illinois-based institute, welcomed those watching the four-hour live stream climate and policy briefing and said it was important to be in Poland to push back on a “gathering of the world’s global collectivists, the climate totalitarians, the global ruling class elites.”

    “What they want to tell us is that humans are creating a global warming crisis that necessitates people sacrificing affordable energy, people sacrificing abundant energy, and people sacrificing their own individual and national rights turned over to the global climate bureaucracy,” Taylor said.

    Taylor said the institute’s goal was to counter the U.N.’s theory about manmade climate change with some cold, hard facts, which speakers discussed and showed in the form of charts and graphs, including some of the U.N.’s own findings.

    “It’s ironic that in today’s world that if you test an alarmist’s theory or prediction and if you present real-world evidence that contradicts it you’ll be called a denier,” Taylor said. “You’ll be told that you’re attacking science.”

    Taylor said the group was armed with plenty of scientific facts, including those to counter the U.N. and other environmental activists claims that wildfires, hurricanes, and droughts are linked to manmade climate change.

    The rest of this ‘must read’ article can be viewed here at Breitbart News

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      What does ‘WEAR E ONE’ mean?

      On another note, the estimate for the carbon load produced by attendees flying in to Katowice, Poland, to attend the IPCC conference and get snowballed into worshiping false gods again is the equivalent of one year’s carbon load for 8200 houses. That’s standard-sized suburban houses, not mansions, not apartment buildings, not cottages by the lake. Standard 3 to 4 bedroom, 2 story homes with full basement and attic, and electricity, heat, and water utilities. and they want to scold the rest of us for simply wanting to cook our food and stay warm in the winter.

    • Mason says:

      What a zombie horde that photo is. Is there someone on a megaphone reminding them to breathe?

    • Slow Joe says:

      That dude is there for the chicks.

      • 26Limabeans says:

        Reminds me of the Viet of the Nam protesters back in the 60’s and 70’s.
        It was a good way to get laid.

        • David says:

          Have a long-time friend who discovered that after a crappy divorce. Used to be a reasonable but is full on leftist nowadays…. he smells it, he follows it (but he doesn’t seem to be getting it.)

    • desert says:

      dimwitted airheads!saying it just like their communist professors told them to!!

  4. 5th/77th FA says:

    Still FIRST on the only Open Thread that counts the FIRSTS. The Coveted Earned (never given) Friday Weekend Open Thread. It has been said….It has been written. I have and will continue to enjoy my reign for the week of 30 Nov up to 7 Dec 2018. The Crown is still at a jaunty angle and the Crown is still being poured in celebration. goarmybeatnavy.

    These libs really, really, really need to study some history. We have always had weather and the climate has always been changing. We’ve also always had politicians that people didn’t agree with. Deal with it, get over it. Quit bashing dTrump simply because he is dTrump.

    Love him or hate him dTrump, in my opinion, is trying to do what he thinks is best for America. It should be obvious to the most dense of observers that the policies of the last 30 – 50 some odd years are not working to our advantage or benefit. More taxes and electing the same old mouthpieces is NOT working and both sides are scared stiff that the American People are going to wake up and vote all of the parasites out of office. The concern is they will continue to vote new socialistic parasites into office.

    Not one single piece of irrefutable evidence of Donald Trump wrongdoing has been brought to light, yet he is crucified and villivied. Yet there is tons of evidence that the Bitch of Benghazi, that lying, murderous, thieving, self centered, egotistical, slut whore from hell has been guilty of breaking not only federal and state laws, but also laws against humanity, and laws passed down thru the eons be supposed deities.

    I have always been a live and let live person and minded my own business. You people in the media and government need to do the same. And while you are at it, sit down, shut up, and quit trying to run my life and ruin my country.


  5. Ex-PH2 says:

    After reading all that stuff, I have questions.

    Do they realize that they are describing themselves?

    Are they even vaguely aware that we’re in a Solar Minimum and have been since 2006?

    Are any of them even vaguely aware that the US economy is not only thriving, but doing the best it has since the 1960s? And jobs are going wanting?

    Are they living on the same planet that we are living on? If so, can we find them their own planet and move them there?

  6. Veritas Omnia Vincit says:

    Harvard researchers have already studied the impact on high tide seawater flooding on water front properties in Miami-Dade, it’s not a good report.

    For at least three years now, some say longer, Miami Beach was flooding so regularly at high tide (not storm surge, just the high tide that a close moon creates) that you could easily plan your visits to see the flooding first hand. How much longer before they stop writing mortgages for properties that are regularly being hit with seawater? Miami Beach has already spent a hundred million dollars as of 2016 to try and mitigate sea water flooding at high tides…this is with a minimal rise. These are real things happening in our nation today. Some streets in Miami beach flood now several times a year from high tide seawater.

    People are certainly free to mock the climate crisis folks as much as they like, the crisis people perhaps deserve some of that. But the debate about negative impacts is no longer a debate the negative impacts are starting to cost real money in actual US Cities. Hal Wanless at University of Miami has been tracking a lot of this high tide seawater flooding in Miami Beach. There’s some interesting information out there.

    It’s clear something is happening, we can argue over the hows and whys I suppose, but it will be interesting to watch and see what the next ten years brings in terms of seawater flooding in Miami Beach because ultimately that will indicate when other lower lying areas are going to be in trouble with rising seawater levels.

    Anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers have a lot in common. They are typically not scientists or doctors but are convinced they know more than both doctors and scientists. It’s an amazingly arrogant position to hold.

    I don’t claim to have an answer for changing tide levels and rising seas, but I can see with my own eyes in Miami Beach what is happening. It doesn’t matter how cold it is in Michigan or Canada this winter. The net effect on the globe matters. Whether you believe the data or not the folks in Miami Beach have some real concerns about real events that are happening with far more regularity each year and they are not alone around the globe.

    • David says:

      Perhaps in a world with long term rises and falls in temperatures and tides, it would behoove us not to build so close to the shore?

      • 5th/77th FA says:

        David that is probably one reason why when the Europeans arrived, there were no major or even minor Native settlements along the coast and hard up against the inland waterways.

        In the areas where there were settlements, they were built in “high and dry” places. Think about where the mound builders were, the Aztecs and Incas. Many of the original cities that were built had to be moved because of flooding ect ect. Think St. Louis, and other cities along the Ohio/Mississippi.

        We have only been tracking “weather” for about 150 years. Even Larsiy Boi’s empirical data cannot say what the “weather/climate” was 200 years ago or 200 years in the future. Per the post that Ex-PH2 made the other day, I don’t see having to pay more of my money on another tax for the politicians and jet setters to spend on the free shit army.

      • Ex-PH2 says:

        Florida also has the highest rate of sinkholes in the country. Some of that is from depleting the water table, and some is just part of what Florida is: a big sandbar sitting on karst and limestone, and about as solid and supportive as Swiss cheese.

        Geologists and paleontologists researching coral reefs in the Keys an the Bahamas found that the fossilized remains of corals show repeated low sea levels, which puts corals above the water, high sea levels, which puts the corals UNDER the water surface.

        It would probably help a lot of those multitonnage highrises along Florida’s coasts were so high in numbers. On the wrong geologic spots, they can compress whatever they sit on and make it sink. New York City’s Manhattan has multiple high rises at both ends, which are supported by bedrock, but not in the middle. And Long Island is just one big sand bar waiting to be uncovered by dropping sea levels. Ditto Cape Cod. It’s happened before and will happen again.

    • AW1Ed says:

      No one is denying that climates change VOV. It’s the matter of the snake-oil salesmen trying to profit by it using scare tactics I object to. That and the hoards of howling warmists also with no science, that repeat what they are told to their own echo chamber.

      Anyone who claims “settled science” has never been exposed to the scientific method, the first tenet of which is to eliminate bias in experiments and/or observations.

      Not to pander for next year’s funding.

      • Veritas Omnia Vincit says:

        Agreed the “crisis” people don’t help, they only create divisions in something that is actually happening and if continues will hurt some folks.

        My only point was there seems to be the turds that create the crisis atmosphere and then those who now have to voice that they don’t “believe” in global warming because it snows in fucking Maine in October….as if snow in Maine in October was somehow mutually exclusive to actual high tide flooding in low lying areas.

        Both sides have their charlatans, but the reality of rising water doesn’t care much what anyone “believes” or doesn’t “believe” it’s still rising water.

        I wonder if the water continues to rise if it means some places become uninhabitable or being the intelligent species we are capable of being do we find a mitigation strategy to protect those areas that doesn’t involve relocating the coastal populations of third world nations.

        • AW1Ed says:

          The European lowlanders have been dealing with this for a very long time.


        • Slow Joe says:

          So, VOV, splain to me how can the water rise on the East coast of FL, in Miami Beach, but not in, let’s say, Vero Beach, a 100 miles up the coast, or in Reddington Beach on the West coast/Gulf coast of Florida?

          Wait, let me think.

          Maybe because it is not a global rise of the ocean level, but instead, the ground level in Miami is going down due to water table depletion and tectonic plate displacement, but, BUT, your “real” scienttists don’t want to research anything that discredits the narrative.

          So eat a bag of dicks, VOV. You can share it with your Warmvaginamists friends.

          Andropogenic Climate Change is an ideology designed to transform America into a 3rd world shit-hole, and deprive my children of a future.

          That’s why I get so angry with Climate Alarmists.

          This is no idle discussion of phylosophical arguments. This is a fight for our future. You are either with the free market / prosperity and liberty for all group, OR with the collectivist, prosperity for the political elite only, dictactorial group.

    • thebesig says:

      Yes, Harvard researchers have studied the impact of high tide sea water flooding on water front properties… the research question that lead to those studies can only be applied to the parameters of their studies, not to the wider argument regarding climate change.

      What’s not emphasized, with regards to Miami-Dade, are the combination “current time” ground saturation levels, as well as the long term draining of the underwater freshwater tables in Florida and elsewhere. When the under-ground fresh water pockets are drained, ground moves in, or “sinks downward” to fill the gap.

      When the ground sinks, due to decreasing fresh water volume, the sea level rise is going to be relative, not true. This is also occurring with many of the islands that are claimed to be “sinking”. As they exhaust their fresh water pockets, under these islands, the vacuum formed is filled from above… Thus the island sinks relative to sea levels.

      On the part of ground saturation levels. When precipitation overwhelms the ground’s ability to take in water, the extra water remains above ground as ponding. I live in a major port city on the East Coast. People around here are pointing to climate change, and “raising sea levels” to explain the flooding that happens in this area.

      Similar concept to what I explained above. I see evidence of this in my yard, as well as on my running route… excessive rainfall leading to ponding of water above the ground. This leads to overwhelming of the drainage/sewer systems in the area… and then major flooding.

      Yes, it’s clear what’s happening, and it’s not man-made global warming, or even global warming. We’re in the beginning of a mini-ice age. Crap is about to hit the fan with regards to this mini-ice age (about to get worse).

      Global ice volume is growing. The water needed to grow those ice sheets are coming from the oceans, and are subsequently trapped into ice.

      I’ve been tracking global weather for 11 years. On top of that, I’ve read literature and articles related to global weather and climate. Guess who else are given the “climate denier” charge? Actual scientists. Numerous scientists have written papers, based on the scientific method, that argues that we’re in a mini ice age, or are headed towards one.

      I’m one of those so called “climate deniers”, and I make fun of the man-made global warming idiots because my position is supported by the scientific method. It’s also based on my own observations and study, that have allowed me to accurately predict how winters will end up being months ahead of time.

      Let’s put it this way. If the planet was getting warmer, none of my predictions would’ve came true.

      During the 11 years I’ve tracked global weather, the net effect has been a downward trend. Season for season, summers have gotten less hot, spring and fall have become cooler, and winters have gotten colder and longer at the expense of spring and fall.

      I used to not be able to stand being outside in my area, from spring to early fall, due to extreme heat and humidity. Now? Not even our heatwaves could bring temperatures up to what they used to be when I first moved to this area. I could go for a walk, in the middle of the day in the middle of the summer here, and still feel comfortable.

      I posted an article on this site, that addressed the myth of the 97% consensus. That percent was based on the 33% of the papers the researchers assumed voiced an opinion on climate change. Even if we stopped right here, it’s obvious that 33% isn’t a consensus. However, even many of the scientists that allegedly were behind that 97% consensus argued that Cook et al. took their study out of context. That consensus doesn’t exist, and such consensus on a topic like climate change defeats the purpose of science.

      Of important note, before the last ice age, large sections of the eastern seaboard were under water. The area that I’m living in now was a sea floor back then. Sea levels were higher during the Roman Warm Period, as evidenced by the dry, visible, dredged out port in Pompei being above then current sea level.

      Real science, and history, don’t lie. The sun is showing signs of being in a grand solar minimum. Every time we’ve been in a grand solar minimum, winters have been long, harsh, brutal, etc.

      I put “climate deniers” above in quotation marks, because we’re not climate deniers, we’re climate realists.

      • Veritas Omnia Vincit says:

        It remains to be seen if the current solar minimum will have any real time effects, the Dalton and Maunder solar minimums changed solar output by a whopping .08% and .25%

        Estimates I read indicate that in a max Grand Solar Minimum in the 21st century the total effect is perhaps a .3 C change in global temps. Based on previous warming trends that’s not enough to alter the warming trends we’ve been experiencing.

        I certainly appreciate your robustly researched opinion and I appreciate that you’ve taken the time to review the data. It’s far better than discussions I have with others who simply choose not to believe based on doing zero research.

        As I said initially, I don’t claim to know definitively and neither do most scientists pro or con on the issue they have their data and their results and they believe they have an idea but none of the more realistic research claims a definitive answer. The next ten years I believe as I said will prove most interesting.

        To be honest with you, I hope you’re right because that would mean the planet continues the same stability we’ve seen for the last 10,000 years on the planet. 10,000 years that have allowed humans to develop civilization thanks to stable weather patterns that make large scale farming predictable and productive. Because if you’re wrong, that stability comes into question and with it much of what we base the term “civilization” on becomes far less stable and predictable.

        I’m more skeptical largely because the research on both sides gets funded quite often by groups with a vested interest in the outcome of the research which makes the question of integrity one worth considering when reviewing research from both sides.

        As always thebesig I am grateful to this site and people like yourself who take the time to read my words, consider them and offer a contrary position that forces me down some alternate paths of research and consideration.

        My best to you and my respect and appreciation for your thoughts and your time.

        • Slow Joe says:

          Two key phrase that tell me all I need to know about your collectivist simpaties:

          1- “The next ten years I believe as I said will prove most interesting.”

          Bullshit. Al Gore said the same. Ten years from now you will be asking for another 10 years. This is the typical leftard game. Move the goal pole.

          2- “because the research on both sides gets funded quite often by groups with a vested interest”

          The old “both sides” leftist talking point. Bullshit. One side, your side, is ideologically committed to the destruction of the United States and the ideas of free market capitalism, small government, and constitutional freedoms.
          Your side believe that the end justify the means, and lie to win.

          3- “My best to you and my respect and appreciation for your thoughts and your time.”

          Sure, respect and appreciation, while the policies you support take the food out of my table and make energy, the key ingredient of prosperity, a luxury.

          • Veritas Omnia Vincit says:

            You have no more idea what policies I do or don’t support “Slow” joe, anymore than which “side” I’m on.

            You read one thing I write and think you know something, that’s more than a little amusing and reveals much more about you than you think you know about me.

            I guess I know I’m having a good day because I’m being called a leftist here and a Trumpster on another site…

            So thanks for balancing the books and making me smile with being called a lefty by you.

            • Ex-PH2 says:

              Nice response, VOV.

              Obviouisly, SlowJoe is more than a little slow.

            • Poetrooper says:

              VOV, what makes this old man an anthropogenic climate change skeptic is that history demonstrates a human predisposition towards periodic “catastrophes” inspiring mass hysteria that with the passage of time quietly fizzle out, proving ultimately to have been based on an irrational fear that somehow took hold of the masses and spread like an Asian flu bug. Today the prospects for more widespread, even global, hysteria is potentiated by our instant global communications and interconnection.

              That said, it also doesn’t help the cause of anthropogenic climate change proponents that they tend to be of the same political cohort who not that long ago were predicting global cooling; or global famine; a Silent Spring; or Peak Oil; or the dire consequences of a hole in the ozone layer. With them, it’s always something catastrophic: glacial and ice cap melting; extinction of the spotted owl or polar bears or (fill in the blank.) With them it’s always something; it’s the Chicken Little Syndrome writ large.

              On the other side, we skeptics tend to view these folks as the boy who cried wolf, so many times we now just snicker when we here it once again but in some new hazardous iteration.

              With climate change, yes we should be concerned about pollution, but faced with the reality that changes in solar activity are the ultimate determinants of global climate and sea levels, we see mankind’s contribution as minimal at most.

              As I’ve cautioned on this site before, both sides tend towards the use of anecdotal weather and tidal events to buttress their viewpoints. Such temporary “evidence” proves nothing at all. However, the irrefutable geological and paleontological evidence for periodic glaciation indicates that we are in an interglacial period, perhaps nearing the end of that period, so that global cooling is far more a possibility than what the current hysteria is all about.

              Ol Poe tends to ascribe to that possibility of cooling, for which the scientific evidence is well established and not predicated on the need to attract ongoing annual funding, skeptical old bastard that I am.

          • OWB says:

            Hurt yourself much jumping to conclusions there, Joe???

            Not sure what point you were attempting to make, but attacking VoV is silly. You just made yourself look like a lefty loon. Again.

        • desert says:

          If you REALLY want to know whats going to happen to the earth ..READ THE BIBLE!

        • thebesig says:

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: It remains to be seen if the current solar minimum will have any real time effects,

          Ever since I started tracking global weather, April 2007, many of the events have occurred, many repeatedly:

          * Ski resorts opening earlier, and staying open later.
          * Fall arriving earlier
          * Winter arriving earlier, staying around longer.
          * Harvest season cut short by early cold.
          * Growing season delayed due to delayed spring.
          * Canals freezing over in Europe (common occurrence during the Maunder minimum).
          * Cold records over 100 years old falling, even one set over 200 years ago being toppled.
          * Getting colder at latitudes further than the poles earlier.
          * Getting colder at lower altitudes earlier.
          * Wind turbulence getting rougher (the colder the air mass, the more turbulent).
          * The need to plow through the highway to open Glacier National Park on time, when such action wasn’t previously required.
          * Polar air masses pushing further from the Arctic/Antarctic during the summer.
          * Commercial animals entombed, in ice, in large numbers.
          * Loss of over 100,000 individual livestock in a single snowstorm.

          The list goes on. Solar sunspot activity has decreased, and noticeable effects have already occurred.

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: the Dalton and Maunder solar minimums changed solar output by a whopping .08% and .25%

          Regardless of which study says what, regarding solar output during the Dalton and Maunder minimums, they had negative impacts on the world.

          For example, the Tambora eruption, of 1815, led to the “year without summer” the following year in North America and Europe. During that year, certain northern states saw snow every month during the summer.

          The change related to those minimums was enough to negatively impact agriculture, driving prices up in advance of the worse of both events. They ended up being humanitarian disasters.

          Luckily, European Kingdoms were already pushing to expand their territories. The Spaniards and Portuguese imported agricultural products from the Americas when European soil took a hit with regards to fertility.

          As mentioned earlier, canals froze over in Europe. Winters were more brutal, and longer, during the Maunder and Dalton minimums than they were during the 20th century climatic optimum.

          Already, in this decade, during the deep freeze of 2012 in Europe, over 600 people died. This occurred in February and in March. During this time frame, windmills froze in place and were inoperable. They didn’t produce energy. Likewise, solar panels didn’t have enough sun to be as effective as intended.

          Result? The energy demand almost buckled their power grids, forcing some governments to limit when people could use their heaters.

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: Estimates I read indicate that in a max Grand Solar Minimum in the 21st century the total effect is perhaps a .3 C change in global temps.

          Many estimates that I have read puts those numbers closer to the Maunder and Dalton minimums, depending on research. We’re looking at a larger change than just a 0.3°C drop. If we end up in another Maunder Minimum, we risk entering mega glaciation (the big Ice Age).

        • thebesig says:

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: Based on previous warming trends that’s not enough to alter the warming trends we’ve been experiencing.

          According to an article that I read, average global temperatures dropped 0.56°C from 2016-2018. And the decline is going to continue. That’s much larger than the .3°C estimate.

          Keep in mind that the hottest decade was the 1930s, not the 1990s. Most the average global temperature rise occurred before 1940. Temperatures declined from the 1940s through the 1980s. Then, they went up again.

          The North American heatwave of 1936 remains the hottest summer on record. It got so hot then that even southern Canadians were sweltering under temperatures that exceeded 100°F.

          If you were to look at a table listing individual years that were the record hottest, record coldest, record low high, record high low, many of the record colds occurred in the 21st century, and even the 1990s. Many of the record hot temperatures occurred prior to the middle of the 20th century. Many of them occurring in the 1930s.

          Average global temperatures stabilized at the beginning of the century, and has been on a declining trend since then.

          These reports about the current year, or one just finished, “being the hottest”? Pure garbage, based on raw data that was averaged up. Raw data measurements show a decline over the past 8 decades, and that trend still continues.

          Now, moving further back in history…

          The Minoan Warming Period (3,000 + years ago) was warmer than the Roman Warming Period. The Roman Warming Period (roughly 2,000 years ago) was warmer than the Medieval Warming Period. The Medieval Warming Period (roughly 1,000 years ago) was warmer than the 20th Century Warming Period.

          Over the past 3000 years, the average global temperature trends has been downward. Sea levels have declined over this 3,000 year period.

          The warmness part of this current inter glacial occurred approximately 8000 years ago (Holocene Maximum). Again, sea levels have trended downwards when compared to this 8000-year temperature trend.

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: As I said initially, I don’t claim to know definitively and neither do most scientists pro or con on the issue they have their data and their results and they believe they have an idea but none of the more realistic research claims a definitive answer.

          I did a post here, talking about the 97% consensus being false. These scientists are not getting together and coming up with a consensus on something like this.

          That defeats the purpose of science. When people are forced to accept this phony consensus, they’re forcing people to “have faith in the scientists”… making this belief a de facto religion. That consensus came from people with an agenda. Not from the scientists.

          The actual scientists are pursuing a research question. Their study attempts to answer these research questions. In some instances, their research answers those questions. In others, they don’t get the answers. Instead, they get a lot more questions.

          Scientific research on climate change goes in all directions. There are scientists who are saying that the sea levels are rising, but not at the catastrophic rate predicted by the UN. There are other scientists who’ve concluded that although sea levels are rising, the rate of rise is declining. If this rate continues, then there would come a point when sea levels stop rising. They would start falling. There are other scientists who are actually arguing that the sea levels are falling.

          The only conclusion that anybody can make is that there is no consensus with regards to the science behind climate change. Something like that would be preposterous given the amount of variables in nature that impact the overall climate.

          Not only am I going by this information, related to climate change, but also by historic trends. It’s like looking outside, seeing the trees change color from different shades of green to different shades of yellow, orange, and red, coupled with cooling temperatures, and using that to conclude that we are headed into winter.

          Scientists have tracked solar sunspot activity for centuries now. The Maunder and Dalton Minimums matched periods of prolonged low sunspot activity. Scientists have already written papers projecting that we are in such a period right now. This, coupled with what I mentioned above regarding trends, strongly point to us being in a cooling trend for the rest of our lives.

          Historic trends don’t lie.

        • thebesig says:

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: The next ten years I believe as I said will prove most interesting.

          Those next 10 years will prove, that those advocating man made global warming, wrong.

          Keep in mind that those predicting that the planet is warming are pushing their projections out decades into our future. Meanwhile, those who are arguing that we are in a cooling trend are making both short and long-term predictions.

          There is a reason to why the “man-made global warming” crowd is pushing their projections decades out. Most of us would either have passed away, or would be in a state where we’re more focused on more pressing personal issues, or in a state of “oblivion”, when the timing of their projections arrive and they are proven wrong.

          By then, they would have gotten their grants, or anything else that they hoped to receive by whoring off their scientific responsibilities. The fact that they were wrong would be immaterial by that point, and their successors would be whoring their science for other phony causes.

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: To be honest with you, I hope you’re right because that would mean the planet continues the same stability we’ve seen for the last 10,000 years on the planet.

          That “stability” will continue to exist regardless of what we, as humans, do. Climate has been going through its cycles long before humans existed, throughout the entire time of our existence, and will continue beyond human extinction.

          We are in an inter-glacial period, and are overdue for both a mini Ice Age as well as a major Ice Age. The only “stability” in the climate is that it changes naturally, as influenced by the sun.

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: 10,000 years that have allowed humans to develop civilization thanks to stable weather patterns that make large scale farming predictable and productive.

          Humans have developed civilization for longer than those 10,000 years.

          Researchers have already discovered ruins of advanced ancient civilizations on our continental shelves. These areas, showing signs of advanced civilization, were on dry land from 6000 years ago to well into the last glaciation period, depending on which underwater ruins one is looking at.

          Contrary to popular belief, our ancestors were also living in cities, along the coastline, during the Ice Age. Not just in caves, and not just as wanderers “chasing mastodons”. Not only did we have the “stability” of the past 10,000 years, our ancestors had a climatic “stability” during the last major glaciation period.

          For example, the rain forests in Southeast Asia are over a million years. Which means, they enjoyed tropical conditions even during the last mega glaciation. That area was continuous land from Indochina all the way to the Philippines’s Palawan.

          Scientific literature has a ready been generated identifying this area as the most likely location for “Atlantis”. Most of human history lays under the waves waiting to be rediscovered.

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: Because if you’re wrong, that stability comes into question and with it much of what we base the term “civilization” on becomes far less stable and predictable.

          First, as I mentioned, the Minoan, Roman, and Medieval Warming Periods were much warmer than the 20th century warming period. What’s one of the significant things about these periods?

          All these periods were accompanied by a massive explosion of human development and accomplishment. For example, the Roman Warming Period contributed to rise of Roman Civilization, and its achievements. The Medieval Warming Period is matched by massive accomplishments for Western Civilization, leading to cultural, technological, agricultural, etc. achievements (Upper Medieval Period). This lead to a chain of events that would send Western Civilization to the Renaissance Period.

          During each of these warming periods, our agricultural luck was robust enough to allow for more specialization than normal. The specialization in skill-sets helped propel civilization to new heights.

          These warming periods were followed by cooling periods. The Roman Warming Period was followed by a cooling period that sacked Europe’s ability to agriculturally produce. This contributed in the Roman’s ability to generate wealth declining, as well as to the mass Germanic migrations into Roman territories.

          Western Civilization faced this risk again following the Medieval Warming Period. However, their push deep into maritime exploration, and their building their empires, opened up fertile territories that allowed them to help compensate for the negative effects, on the European Continent, resulting from a switch from a warming period to a cooling one.

          Second, “climate stability” is a “construct”. Both weather and climate are constantly changing.

          Veritas Omnia Vincit: I’m more skeptical largely because the research on both sides gets funded quite often by groups with a vested interest in the outcome of the research which makes the question of integrity one worth considering when reviewing research from both sides.

          Not all of the studies are done under these auspices. The reality is that real science doesn’t support the man-made global warming theory. The science is all over the map regarding which way the climate is going. It’s impossible, with current technologies, to input all the variables into the computer models.

          Not all of the scientists are “paid off” to chase an agenda. Many of those scientists arguing that the planet is “warming up” are doing so due to the lucrativeness of man-made global warming. Even those that acknowledge aspects advanced by climate realists end up giving a nod to global warming in their papers.

          Out of the total number of studies focusing on the climate, the vast majority don’t argue one way or another… And there’s definitely no consensus on “man made global warming”.

    • 11B-Mailclerk says:

      Climate variability is normal and natural. We have been in a warming trend for over twenty thousand years, with occasional near-glacial cold snaps.

      The warming will continue, despite the Civilizationof Man, until we reach the abrupt end of the current interglacial, zero to ten thousand years from now. We then return to several hundred thousand years f ice age, the normal state of the planet whennot in an interglacial warm spell.

      Personally, I think it -wonderful- if mankind can hold off that seemingly inevitable ice age, as those disasterously bad weather events generally are a near-extinction event for humanity.

      My cucnicism for the current alarmists is due to their proposed solution, state control of the means of production. It is proposed for all ills, even polar opposite ones, and somehow they never seem to address the disasterously bad outcomes whenever someone is duped into trying it.

      If one’s cure is always the same debunked snake-oil, one is not seriously proposing solutions.

    • desert says:

      No sweat…wait for the tsunami..there will not BE a Florida!

  7. Ex-PH2 says:

    Would a solar minimum account for why I’ve seen sundogs near sunset several times (have photos) instead of in the mornings?

    • AW1Ed says:

      A sundog, or parhelion, is an Earthly atmospheric anomaly, Ex. Doubt the sun had anything to do with it, except providing the light, of course.

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      That part, I know, but I usually see them in the mornings if conditions are right. Near sunset is something new. But it is SO cool because instead of being at a distance from me so that you get the ring and the side flares, I’m right in the center of it!

      I love this stuff!!!

  8. These snowflake peeps, not to be confused with Floridians who are snow birds that come down numerious times during the year should get a hold of Dr. Who and travel back in time a few million years and see the the earth change by heating and cooling. I’ll do my part to make the flakes happy and shit can my pack of typewriter carbon paper.

    • AW1Ed says:

      You and Ahhhh-nold.
      Arnold Schwarzenegger: I Wish I Could Time Travel to Terminate Fossil Fuels

      KATOWICE, Poland (AP) — Arnold Schwarzenegger says he wishes he could travel back in time like the cyborg he played in “The Terminator” so he could stop fossil fuels from being used.

      “If we would’ve never started in that direction and used other technology, we’d be much better off,” the actor and former California governor said Monday at the start of a U.N. climate conference in Poland.

      “The biggest evil is fossil fuels: it’s coal, it’s gasoline, it’s the natural gas,” he told conference delegates.


      • Sparks says:

        Arnold Schwarzenegger is known for a lot of things. Science and deep thinking are not among them.

      • desert says:

        Well if Ar Nold did a better job as governor, maybe the airheads in Kalifornia would not have voted for the moonbeam!!! imo I do not have a website, yet my name keeps showing up there? Why, tired of deleting it everytime I post?

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      I love stuff like that. If it weren’t for carbon-based fuels, Ahnold the Carbon-based Organism Terminator might have frozen to death at birth. Then we wouldn’t have to listen to his nonsense.

      I have a great idea: tell a CAGWer or a Warmunista that he or she is a carbon-based organism and see what happens.

  9. HMC Ret says:

    On this date in history, 05DEC:

    1941 – USS Lexington (CV 2) sails with Task Force 12 to ferry Marine aircraft to Midway, leaving no carriers at Pearl Harbor. Previously, on Nov. 28, USS Enterprise (CV 6) sails from Pearl Harbor for Wake Island to ferry Marine aircraft to island.

    1943 – USS Narwhal (SS 167) embarks nine evacuees at Alubijid, Mascalar Bay and then sinks Japanese cargo ship Himeno Maru off Camiguin Island.

    1944 – USS Hake (SS 256) evacuates downed aviators and turns over all supplies that can be spared to Filippino guerilla forces ashore at Libertad, Panay, Philippines.

  10. Sapper3307 says:

    “Pinochet did nothing wrong”

    Abraham Lincoln.https://youtu.be/4KOddPQc7hk

  11. 2/17 Air Cav says:

    I just read that a C-130 and F-18 collided while in a mid-air refuel off Japan. The search is on….but it doesn’t sound hood at all.

  12. AnotherPat says:

    A short, 3:58 Video worth watching.

    It is President George W. Bush’s humerous, but tearful eulogy to his Father, President George H.W. Bush during his funeral.

    W tearfully said “He was the best Father you could have..”

    If the Video does not bring a tear to your eye, then I don’t know what will:


    All Presidents, past and present and their wives were at 41’s funeral.

    A Son who was a President saying goodbye to his Dad, a President. The last words 43 heard from 41 was “I Love You.”

    Rest in Peace, George Herbert Walker Bush. You are now home with Barbara and Robin.

    • 5th/77th FA says:

      Lost my Papa when I was 10. He survived ETO in WWII, killed in a truck wreck 5 miles from the house. Didn’t have the chance to say goodbye. Have always wondered how things might have been different if he had of lived this long, or just longer period than he did.

      Thanks for posting this Another Pat

      Godspeed Mr. President. Your kids don’t know how lucky they were.

  13. sj says:

    Just a commentary. Watching the Pres Bush ceremonies. Reinforces my pride in having been a soldier. Startled at first looking at the overseas stripes on the MG that accompanied Pres Bush 43, and the medal rack. Same for the honor guard. How things have changed from my era when we may have been in VN once, or twice. Soldiers today are back to back deployed and then R&R at Ft Irwin. God bless today’s military

  14. Ex-PH2 says:

    I just read a couple of articles elsewhere about wind turbine farms and how they are losing their ability to provide current at a rate predicted before construction. This is due to winds and wind speeds dropping or stilling in these areas.

    I think the only way to get the nonsense about “sustainables” and “renewables” stopped is to put those who want to inflict them on the rest of us on a source restriction that is solely solar and/or wind.

    I want to know how long they’d really last if they had no fossil fuel or nuclear power generation as a substitute.

    • 26Limabeans says:

      Don’t blame the wind.
      The data and projections used to sell the things were all bullshit to begin with.
      The nameplate data is not realistic.
      It was and still is a political scam.
      The pyramid is collapsing.

  15. HMCS(FMF) ret says:

    Here’s a link for a news article that I saw – and it’ll get all the Bezerkeley Bezerkers wee-weed up:


    Hey Lars… your school got kicked in the nuts for denying conservatives their right to free speech.

  16. 2/17 Air Cav says:

    Doh. A 19-year old caravan woman sneaked into the US, reportedly by climbing a wall. She’s a Honduran national. She wasn’t alone. With her was an adult male, identified as her husband, and her three-year old child. (You do the math.) Anyway, they were caught immediately and told to get their asses back to Mexico. They declined. Did I mention that she was very pregnant and that while in US custody she went into labor. Did I mention that she was transported to a hospital and gave birth and that she is now happy? She has an anchor baby. So, let’s recap. She’s not here legally. She does not enter through a designated port. She and her child and the adult male have been fed and housed and she has racked up medical and transportation bills. Think she can pay?

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      No. But WE can. Thank you, AirCav.

    • Veritas Omnia Vincit says:

      Of course she can pay, her baby qualifies for Medicaid and welfare.

      There’s a nice study recently that explains all this regarding non-citizen households and citizen households and the relative utilization of government benefits. I’m sure you’ll be shocked to note that non-citizen households utilize more benefits….

  17. Mick says:

    AW1Ed/other Admins:

    Developing story. A Marine Corps KC-130 and a Marine Corps F/A-18D collided and crashed last night approximately 200 miles off the coast of Japan. Both aircraft were out of MCAS Iwakuni.

    ‘Crew member in US Marine Corps plane collision dies after rescue; 5 remain missing’


    ‘A crew member rescued Thursday in the waters near Japan where two Marine Corps aircraft collided during a training exercise has died, U.S. officials told Fox News.

    The announcement of the death comes amid a frantic search for five other crew members who remain missing. Another Marine who was rescued is listed in fair condition.

    The Marines said an F/A-18 fighter jet and a KC-130 refueling aircraft collided and crashed during training around 2 a.m. Thursday. The planes took off from their base in Iwakuni, near Hiroshima, and the crash occurred about 200 miles off the Japan coast.

    “As to what was taking place when the mishap occurred, that is under investigation,” Maj. Eric Flanagan, a Marine Corps spokesman, told Fox News.

    There were two crew members in the F/A-18 and five in the KC-130 at the time of the incident.

    The crash is the 21st non-combat military crash in 2018, surpassing 20 such disasters in 2017, and only the latest in a recent series of accidents involving members of the U.S. military deployed to and near Japan.

    Last month, a U.S. Navy F/A-18 Hornet from the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan crashed into the sea southwest of Japan’s southern island of Okinawa, though its two pilots were rescued safely. In mid-October, a MH-60 Seahawk also belonging to the Ronald Reagan crashed off the Philippine Sea shortly after takeoff, causing non-fatal injuries to a dozen sailors.

    More than 50,000 U.S. troops are based in Japan under the bilateral security pact.

    Fox News’ Lucas Tomlinson and Greg Norman and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.’

  18. 2/17 Air Cav says:

    This is just too much. You know the story of the Von Trapp Family and of their tale told in “The Sound of Music.” Well, the NYC high school that “Fame” was based on, the Fiorello La Guardia HS of Music and Art, was staging a production of that show, replete with swastikas. You can guess what happened. The principal, someone named Mars (I kid you not) decreed that the symbols were inappropriate and had to go. And go they went. Can’t have Nazis portrayed as, um, Nazis. The students did the set. One, a sophomore, said, ““But to take out the symbol is to try to erase history. “Obviously the symbols are offensive.But in context, they are supposed to be.” Out of the mouths of babes.

    • 2/17 Air Cav says:

      “Good up in here. I look like…freedom.” Love that line.

      • Mason says:

        I really, really, really need that black goat to follow me around all day and say “YEAH” after I say anything.

        “Can I take your order, sir?”

        “I’ll have a coffee.”


  19. Ex-PH2 says:

    Just a few questions, because the sky finally cleared up and I’m enjoying the sunshine.

    1 – Since the Sun finally came out, does that infer that the Sun has been hiding something and wants us to know about it?

    2 – If ice cream, cheese and butter are supposed to be “bad” for you, why do they taste so good?

    3 – If you can tell the male squirrels from the females by the fact that the females are fat because they are all pregnant, where do the males go in the winter?

    • AnotherPat says:

      “If ice cream, cheese and butter are supposed to be “bad” for you, why do they taste so good?”

      Because they are made with salt and sugar? And I mean REAL Salt, REAL Sugar…not the artificial, low-sodium stuff.

      Heck, Ex, I remembered you shared with us that you LOST weight when you quit drinking Diet Sodas…😊


    • Ex-PH2 says:

      That’s true, I did. 49 pounds, and while my jeans are far too large, I don’t care. I am not going back to that stuff, ever. I can buy new jeans next spring.

  20. AnotherPat says:

    PETA has gone Yo-Yo again. You should see the list. Those poor animals:

    “PETA Criticized For Equating Anti-Animal Language With Racism and Homophobia:


    • 5th/77th FA says:

      Think I’ll go have me a bacon wrapped fillet of beef, with a side of scrambled up eggs. Have been a proud member of (P)eople(E)ating(T)asty(A)nimals for decades. When they ask me at a dining facility, would I like a salad with my meal, I tell them I don’t eat what my food eats.

      There have been 5 vegetable food groups recalled because of sickness causing things this year. There has not been a recall of bacon or chocolate…..You decide.

      • AnotherPat says:

        5th/77th FA commented:

        “There have been 5 vegetable food groups recalled because of sickness causing things this year. There has not been a recall of bacon or chocolate…”

        Love it! 👏👏👏

      • OWB says:

        Indeed! If it ain’t from my yard, it ain’t eaten raw!! Well, except chocolate. Sometimes that IS cooked, like when it’s in a cake. Other times it’s only warmed, like when it’s drizzled over popcorn.

    • Mason says:

      For anyone who hasn’t read about PETA’s death factory out east, one group wants to help publicize it more;


      I love animals and volunteer at the humane society, and I am sickened that an “animal rights” organization would just resort to gassing them. Our humane society brings dogs in from all over the country, we’ve even had groups of dogs flown in from South Korea! There’s always somewhere for them to go. Only the absolute worst, irredeemable (or suffering) dogs should be put down.

      • Mason says:

        And I’m thawing out a pound of bacon for dinner. F-U PETA!

      • Ex-PH2 says:

        I love bacon. I think I should do a cooking post on bacon and its wonderful uses.

        Neutering and spaying programs are aimed at reducing the unwanted/dumped pet population. PETA hates animals. If they didn’t, they’d find homes for them.

        • 5th/77th FA says:

          “…and on the 8th Day, God created bacon…”

          Way to go Big Guy!

          I have, currently, 3 rescued felines and 2 rescued canines. I would have to get nekkid to count the number of critters I have rescued & then, at least, square that number.

          The more I learned about people, the more I loved my furbabies.

        • SFC D says:

          Feed PETA people to adopted dogs. Solves 2 problems.

  21. Poetrooper says:

    It’s time to take this climate discussion to a higher intellectual plane so here ya go:


    • 5th/77th FA says:

      Ol’ Poe, Brother, it is good that we are so old and don’t have that much time left. Myself, I’ve had a pretty good run, and really have no regrets. I’m got not much to do, so in addition to reading the article, I watched the video. What good brain cells I had left from my stroke have just atrophied. And the sad part of it all, is the other idiots on that panel were agreeing with and applauding her. SMH. Help us Lord every one.

      Change order. I do have some regrets. Should have started taking out libbies years ago. Woulda been out of prison by now.

    • AnotherPat says:

      Love the comments left by others on the article you provided, Poe. Especially this one (that person nailed it about Ocasio-Cortez):

      “With every sentence that drools out of her mouth, it becomes more clear that she is one the most clueless imbeciles to ever hold a public office. Every time she speaks, it reminds me of the ‘Celebrity Jeopardy’ skit from SNL.”

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      Well, isn’t she just the zippy little thing??

      While her take on Tesla has some merit – all those subsidies for Elon Musk and no results close to what he predicted, in addition to which deaths from lithium battery fires in those cars are unconscionable – she simply doesn’t have much but chitchat and air. No plan, just ‘we gotta do this!’ She can quite campaigning any time now.

      The IPCC’s demand for $144 trillion or else we all boil to death is another ridiculous ‘gimme yer money’ load of BS. And Macron is intimidated by les gen des gilets jaunes and their anger, so he’s backing off his slush fund tax on fuels – for now.

    • Mason says:

      Is Pelosi stewing in her office yelling at an underling for someone to go out and shut that bitch up yet?

      As far as the return on investment in Tesla, I agree with her. But government will never get a return on such investment. Which is why it’s a losing prospect and government should stop trying to create markets. If something is so revolutionarily awesome, you shouldn’t need millions in government subsidies to build it and massive tax rebates to sell the product.

      Occasional-Cortex is really living up to her new name. Even Bernie doesn’t seem to think she’s all there, and most of his mental faculties left him during the 70’s.

  22. AnotherPat says:

    ABC News:

    What a bunch of SICK people. How low can you go? I hope their ratings GO DOWN.


    “ABC News Imagines President Trump’s Vision For His Funeral”


    • 5th/77th FA says:

      YGBSM….I mean just daaaauuunnmm. Nailed it Bro. Disgusting Sick mofos. This ties into my comment on the cooking thread about the hypocrites and Trump Bashers. No cable here, could have Dish or Direct, refuse to pay for TV with commercials. Long story. Coverage of the services dependent on local CBS broadcast, and it is spotty. Back and forth to their syndicated daily crap.

      Local ABC and FOX are owned by the same outfit. They only run ABC evening news and ABC Good Morning thing. They broadcast NO Fox news at all. If I want to see Fox news, have to stream it and the pop up ads drive me nuts. My security on this machine keeps zapping, but they throw more and more at it.

      I long for the days of the Edward R. Morrows, Huntley and Brinkleys of the world. You know, when they just reported the news, and didn’t try to spin it.

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      What else would you expect from a bunch of overpaid post-adolescent idiots with no manner and no concept of simple decency?

    • thebesig says:

      They still don’t get why their favored candidate lost the last presidential election… They haven’t learned. Oh well, they’re setting themselves up for a repeat of the night of the presidential election of 2016. This time, for 2020. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wins by a landslide victory. Then, further down in the future, expect them to eat their crow a third time when they see the reaction from the public, in respect to him, during his funeral.

      I remember how the media treated then President Ronald Reagan. Then, seeing the public outpouring in the aftermath of his passing.

    • Mason says:

      What liberal media bias?

      I did hear some commentator say that Trump looked like he didn’t want to be there. Well who the fuck LIKES going to funerals? If he looked like he was having a good time, I’d be more than a little concerned.

      • OWB says:

        Further evidence that he is the most adult of the recent first families is that the others were all grinning, laughing, and glad handing until he got there. They suddenly all got very sober. Until he showed up, they were all acting very sophomoric, and it did not look good on any of them.

  23. AnotherPat says:

    Check out the Navy’s Uniform for this weekend’s game, honoring Bill the Goat.


    “Very pretty, Colonel, Very pretty. But can they fight?”

    Donald Sutherland, “Dirty Dozen”:



  24. LC says:

    And for something light-hearted in an otherwise difficult day for him, here’s President George W. Bush handing Michelle Obama a cough drop (again) this time at his father’s funeral: